DIY Electrics?

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20 Feb 2009 00:00 by foxesfan Star rating in Sheffield and Jardin.... 27 forum posts Send private message

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Hi everyone,

May sound a silly question but having fitted my own lights in the UK a number of times can anyone see any reason why it can't be done on the site? Spanish electrics presumably are the same aren't they?




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20 Feb 2009 22:37 by graham204 Star rating. 144 forum posts Send private message

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Foxesfan

                 You are right there is no reason why it can't be done onsite, i was out last week and fitted all the lights in my apartment, if anything it is simpler in Spain than in the UK.

Cheers

Graham



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21 Feb 2009 07:58 by ardane Star rating. 16 forum posts Send private message

I agree, 3 wires, blue, black and earth - just the same as UK

I took over a temporary light fitting (or two) just to get some light on the first day, it saved us rushing around for light fittings

Get some plaster board raw plugs for fitting up your lights

Good luck




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21 Feb 2009 13:03 by dakey Star rating in Manchester(Miggleton.... 2607 forum posts Send private message

I would be carefull with DIY Electrics, If you do your own in the UK and your house burns down or is damaged because of the electrics then your house insurance is invalid. I thought that all electrics had to be done by coded qualified tradesmen for the purpose of valid house insurance. It could be the same in Spain. Just a cautionary note to ponder on

Cheers Dakey




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21 Feb 2009 15:38 by PGM Star rating in Cheshire & LOS NARAN.... 862 forum posts Send private message

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Hi All

The issue with DIY electrics is your competence to do it. All electrical work done in the UK in your own home doesn’t have to be done by an electrician but the work you can do are restricted.

In the UK all building work is covered in building regulations, in the case of electrical work its regulation is called ‘Part P’ this regulation states the restrictions of doing electrical work and the competence required. As it is a regulation it is typically difficult to easily understand for those of us not used to reading them. NICEIS have produced a guidance, which is easier to understand, you can download the Part P factsheet from the link I have put below. All that said you should have a good understanding of the work you intend to do and if not have it done by someone who has. I am not aware that Spain has adopted any similar regulation but it’s a matter of time till they do if they haven’t.

http://niceic.org.uk/en/householder/section.asp?SECTION=12

 

Regards

Phil

 




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21 Feb 2009 16:25 by dakey Star rating in Manchester(Miggleton.... 2607 forum posts Send private message

Phill,

Seems like a bit of a minefield to me, who decides competence? in the case of damage caused by faulty or DIY electrical work you may argue that you were competent to do the work but you can bet the insurance company

would argue otherwise if the work is not done by a qualified electrician. I have rewired most of my house over the years but my insurance policy now states that any electrical or plumbing work must be carried out by qualified

certificated tradesmen, so I can no longer do that work myself and still be covered. As I say,it is a minefield and you must be wary of undertaking work of this type if you are not suitably qualified.

Dakey




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21 Feb 2009 16:48 by ant and andi Star rating. 479 forum posts Send private message

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come on gents were fitting lights here, not rewiring a rocket,

best advice is turn it off until work complete,

cheers your local rocket scientist




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21 Feb 2009 17:29 by PGM Star rating in Cheshire & LOS NARAN.... 862 forum posts Send private message

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Hi

 

ant and andi

“best advice is turn it off until work complete”

 Then turn it on and watch it go up like a rocket   LOL

 

dakey

Well for me, if I am entitled to do it under Part P (the governing legislation) but my insurance has a blanket ban on my doing any work in my home then I would be finding a new insurer, I quite simply can’t afford to pay to do work I can do myself.

If on the other hand a person isn’t sure of what they are doing then don’t.

 

Phil

 




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21 Feb 2009 20:51 by junenpaul Star rating. 9 forum posts Send private message

If anyone wants any lights fitting including collecting from supplier then email me direct I can give you the email of an excellent 'man who can'  Barbara villa jana,los narajos.




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22 Feb 2009 10:31 by welshwizard Star rating in Lincolnshire & Jardi.... 137 forum posts Send private message

Hello nice people.

Well once again I have the opportunity to comment on a subject I know quite a lot about because I am one of those rare and timid creatures we call a qualified domestic electrician. I am also an electrical inspector holding a 2391 qualification.

I will try to keep this general reply as short as possible, but this is a very serious issue and obviously one that is close to my heart. If anyone wants more specific advice about a problem, please feel free to PM me and I will try to get back to you ASAP.

OK, regulations:

PGM is quite right about the building regulations in this country (UK) being mandatory, however I must stress that ALL electrical work in UK domestic properties MUST be carried out in accordance with BS7671 (British Standard 7671), by a COMPETENT PERSON. Where electrical work is to be carried out in 'special locatons' (as defined in BS7671) due to the increased risk of electric shock, not only is it to be carried out by a competent person, but Local Authority Building Control must also be notified. When you use a qualified/certified sparks, this will be done for you, probably without you even knowing about it. There ARE similar procedures in Spain, but obviously those lovely chaps work to their own country's standard, not to a 'British Standard'. But be warned, the Spanish equivalent of an electrical installation certificate is the 'boletin de instalaciones electricas' and if God forbid anything was to go wrong on the developement....... i.e. a death by electrocution in your property, I will bet my aunty's pants that PW will want to vindicate themselves from any shoddy workmanship and blame the person that carried out any subsiquent electrical installaton work for the accident. You as the owner/landlord had better make damn sure you can prove the work carried out on your property had been done by a competent person and in accordance with any federal or local building regulations.

The rough definition of  'a competent person' is someone with sufficient training, knowledge and experience to carry out the work required on the particular installation in question. 

I appreciate that competence is not something one can easily define, but if insurance companies, the Police or a court were to get invloved, I can tell you from experience, the authorities will want to see actual proof that the person in question is competent. They may want to see examples of previous work, certificates of formal training/qualifiactions and public liability insurance, the test equipment used and in some cases proof of affiliation to relevent governing bodies.

Let me say from daily experience in my professional capacity while I accept that wiring a few lights up is not like re-wiring a rocket.............A little knowledge can be a very, VERY dangerous thing.

If you do not understand the next things I say, I will suggest you are not suitably competent to be carrying out your own electrical work.

1. Maximum earth fault loop impedance.

2. RCBOs.

3. A.D.S.

4. Diversity.

5. Maximum safe load carrying capacity of cables.

To those of you that have already connected your own lights, inside and outside, may I ask which of those 3 wires you connected do you think is the most important? The brown, the blue or the green/yellow?...........most unqualified people would say "the brown one because it's the live". Well I suggest it is in fact the green/yellow that is by far the most important because when we are dealing with lethal voltages, without question, the most important thing is how the installation reacts when a potentially fatal fault occurs.

Let me give you an example..............If for instance 'the earth' or CPC (circuit protective conductor) to one of the light fittings you had connected outside had been accidentally severed during construction inside the wall cavity, the light would work perfectly well. Let us now say the 'live' wire within the fitting had come loose due to a faulty terminal screw and was now in contact with the metal fitting. All that would happen is that the light 'bulb' would not work. When you or your wife, or your guest/children went to replace the bulb and touched the (now live) metal fitting you would instantly have circa 230V ac go into your hand, down through your body and out through your foot. Your heart would probably go into V-fib and you could be dead before anyone knew what happened..........If on the other hand you had got someone competent to do the work, they would have tested the earth fault loop impedence of that lighting circuit and found it was way out of limits due to the severed earth cable. They would have found the damaged earth cable and repaired it. When the terminal screw had then broken (in my example) and allowed the live wire to touch the metal fitting, the system would have reacted by instantly tripping the relevent RCBO and no matter how many times you tried to reset it, it would not allow you do so.

That example is not designed to frighten or patronise anyone, but it is something that could and in my experience has happend. Although luckily, the person that touched the live light fitting did not die. 

Please, PLEASE do not confuse 'competent' with carefull, intelligent or common sense. 

Just because I can grow potatoes in my garden................does not mean I am a farmer.

WW

   



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22 Feb 2009 18:54 by ayrez Star rating in La Marina Oasis. 377 forum posts Send private message

Hello all

The problem you will have if using an electrician is knowing whether he is actually qualified. I would doubt that any English electrician is qualified to issue a boletin  as mentioned by  Welshwizard in his informative post. Not even sure if the UK qualifications are recognised in Spain.

Jean





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22 Feb 2009 19:17 by nozzer Star rating. 49 forum posts Send private message

hey .

all this talk wont get your lights etc fitted

just contact Steve (endpeg)

who and i have in my van to bring out to him this week

MK fittings (ceiling roses etc) bought in the UK

so is that enough proof how compatant this man works

not just buying cheap spanish eqp

allan




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22 Feb 2009 20:20 by PGM Star rating in Cheshire & LOS NARAN.... 862 forum posts Send private message

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Well I hope they are Edison Screw Cap and not Bayonet Cap




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22 Feb 2009 21:41 by ant and andi Star rating. 479 forum posts Send private message

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ww

totally agree with you about the dangers of electricity and its installation, and little knowledge is very dangerous, however enough knowledge to do the task is fine, fitting lights, or re wiring a rocket, as long as you know your limits! and you have been shown by a "competant person"

how did you plant the potato, someone must have shown you, was it a farmer?lol

have you ever fixed a leaky pipe? plumber

have you ever cut the grass? greenkeeper 

cleaned your windows, used a saw,

i dont think anyone would try to fit their lights without the knowledge you clearly have




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22 Feb 2009 23:05 by welshwizard Star rating in Lincolnshire & Jardi.... 137 forum posts Send private message

Hi again folks,

I just re-read my previous post and maybe I did go over the top slightly.

I don't want to argue, split hairs or scare the poop out of anyone.

I'm just saying that I get called out to lots of jobs where people (Mr B & Q) thought they knew what they were doing but either ended up damaging the origional system or getting themselves in a muddle because they didn't know their limits. 

Out in Spain where we are wet, sweaty, partially clothed, bare footed, maybe a bit drunk, on hosed down patios, etc the risk of a lethal electric shock is even greater, so please be careful if you are doing your own electrical work.

This is what I do for a living, so please forgive any lack of humour when I talk about this subject.

For those of you that have met me, you will know I have a wicked sense of humour on almost any other subject.

Here endeth the sermon.............sorry again.

WW

 



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23 Feb 2009 07:34 by dakey Star rating in Manchester(Miggleton.... 2607 forum posts Send private message

hello everyone,

I agrre totally with WW, the purpose of my original comment was to highlight the fact that it is not just a simple case of doing this work yourself without any possible consequencies down the road. I speak as someone who has always performed DIY but like it or not things have moved on from the way things used to be and you must have the i,s dotted and t,s crossed these days. Anyway I have certainly stimulated debate, but that is my last word on this subject.

Dakey




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23 Feb 2009 17:10 by ant and andi Star rating. 479 forum posts Send private message

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well said welsh wizard , point taken matter closed,

P.S. YOU HAVE GOT ME SCARED OUT OF MY WITTS

cheers ant N7




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