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This is somewhat related to the Underbuild threat.
I own a townhouse and as more spanish neighbours move in more and more walls are being raised on top of existing boundary walls. Principally we don't object and when we were over the last time and discovered that one of our neighbours had raised our common wall it was less the fact that we weren't asked that concerned us but that his side had been plastered and painted and we were facing now blank blocks with blops of hardened mortar splilling out from inbetween them. After consulting with them they agreed to finish our side, which they did.
Now I was alerted by our caretaker that another neighbour has done the same. After he spoke to them they wanted to get in contact with us personally wich they have done today. They claim they were not aware that my house was occupied and since the wall has been put up for the privacy of both houses they will finish it on my side if I pay them Eu 150. Since I have nothing to do with the wall except having to look at it now I am not inclined to contribute a cent particular since I consider a proper finish on my side as a common courtesy and the other neighbour did not ask for money.
I would appreciate a couple of pointers towards how to handle the situation both in regard to approaching the spanish mentality and the legal aspect.
Thanks
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Any structural changes in a community I understand must be approved 100% by the community (not just 100% of those present at any meeting, all the owners). This can be varied on a court order if, saying one person is unreasonably refusing to agree. It basically means that the community can 'never' give permission for structural alterations.
A building licence, issued by the town hall is required for any work, (even including re-tiling a kitchen, glassing in a balcony, etc. (A friend of mine got fined for re-tiling a kitchen in an appartment, even though the work was being done by a 'professional'). Thus, a wall, including an addition, would have needed a licence. I doubt that the town hall in this case issued one. They maybe be interested.
As for your side of a wall. I cannot imagine that you have a right to demand that it be 'nicely finished.' But I am only guessing.
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Well,
I would have thought that if you are pleased with the additional facility, paying for it to be finished to a high standard for your specific additional pleasure should be welcome.
Presumable such standard would also improve its weathering properties to mutual benefit.
It is interesting that the locals are keen to improve privacy whereas others on the "quad" thread would rather remove privacy and join a vibrant Spanish "commune".
Can you really believe what "happies" say to justify their position????
Regards
Norman
_______________________
N. Sands
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Hi John
Thank you for your reply.
I am pretty sure no permit has been given and I would be surprised if any alterations, some substantial, on the other houses had one. As I said, we have no objection per se as long as we don't have to look at a crappy wall that we did not initiate and we could happily do without so I would expect something like common courtesy to kick in here, a quid pro quo.
I was just thinking. Could something like that actually have a negative impact if we should decide to sell the house sometime in the future. Maybe that is a paranoid question but then again.....
Thanks
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Thank you for your contribution, Norman.
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Privacy demands vary depending where you are standing !!!
I used to live in a Town House. My house was higher up the hill than my neighbour. The 1 metre wall on my side was fine but I could see over it and look down on my neighbour. When I got back from a holiday, the neighbour had increased the height of the wall so I could not see over. He too did not finish off my side, but it was not a problem. But by increasing the height meant a thief could more easily access my first floor balcony !
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Cove Robert.
In your position I think I would get a couple of bags of cement and sand, or some tiles and finish my side.
But be careful, you should get a small works building licence from the town hall !
I got one with a simple sketch of what I was going to do and paid I think 5% of 'my estimate' of the cost, for it
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Thanks John.
I have a feeling that is what is going to happen. I am sorely tempted to ask what their permit specifies regarding finish of the wall but...
You have been very helpful, much appreciated.
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Permits aside, if this wall is on the boundary it would be described here as a "party wall" with joint responsibility for it.
legally there would be the requirements of "the party wall act" which puts responsibilities on both neighbours.
basically if you like it pay up, if not ask for it to be removed.
Regards
Norman
_______________________
N. Sands
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With the properties I have owned in UK the plan on the deeds shows (with a T I think) who is responsible for fences / boundary walls.
As I understand it. Party walls are different as they are the internal ones that divide one semi-detached house /flat from the one next door. So would not be present with a detached property
For UK See. http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/boundaries.html
This message was last edited by johnzx on 25/08/2011.
This message was last edited by johnzx on 25/08/2011.
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Did I get my terminology wrong? I am talking about the wall dividing our adjoining backyards. My nearest neighbour at my main residence is a couple of hundred meters down the road therefore I had no reason to worry about adjoining walls, so far.
I understand what you are saying about paying up or getting it removed, Norman. Besides the difficulty of being considerate towards someone elses inconsideration, which I could manage myself to do provided I am not being taken for a dunce, I would think that my neighbour would prefer to hang on to the wall and therefore might entertain the idea of giving it an acceptable finish. Or are they counting on the fact that I would prefer not to start a feud over a stupid wall? It's just like a poker game and I have the feeling I am going to lose either way.
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As I said below re your boundary wall :-
"I cannot imagine that you have a right to demand that it be 'nicely finished.' But I am only guessing."
I still stick with that and it would probably be the same in the UK.
Don't get side tracked with Party Walls, as I said they are a different animal altogether.
If you 'go to war' with your neighbour, the best you may get is that the council will insist that it comes down and you will have an enemy for life. Not worth it. Finish it the way you like it and enjoy it.
"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference."
This message was last edited by johnzx on 25/08/2011.
This message was last edited by johnzx on 25/08/2011.
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sorry about that,
it was the term "town house" and "common wall" that made the suggestion.
party walls can indeed extend to the exterior and are no different to common boundary walls.
joint responsibilities are comprehensive not just costs.
John's advice is good any objection may bring unwelcome consequences - as for appearance you would have no right to object to that on a boundary marker or even to insist that any wall or fence is required here to mark a boundary, but of course urbanisations may have special conditions for all residents.
Regards
Norman
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N. Sands
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Thanks again for your replies, guys.I might finish the wall myself, maybe I put another one or two blocks on top for added privacy. Well, one can dream....
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