Anyone else bought an of plan property at FortunaHill Golf and waiting on completion ?

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16 Feb 2009 3:00 PM by sliding doors Star rating. 7 forum posts Send private message

yes we are but can not find a good lawyer at the moment. Please private mail us




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16 Feb 2009 3:40 PM by Kriss Star rating. 2 forum posts Send private message

Well, I have a lovely experienced conveyancing ex-lawyer (i.e. he's just retired) but he's smart and a good friend - so I'm happy to email him with a 'what do you think' email re all of this.  He's English - not sure his remit or experience covers Spanish jurisdictions and law - but if you don't ask, you don't get - so I'll get on with asking him.  Worst case - we're all of us 'fxxxd' - best case, he knows someone in Spain ...

Frankly, I'm not personally optimistic about any refund of deposit, legal fees - at least not any time soon.   I need the money so I'm not waving goodbye to xxxthousand Euro with equinamity - and I'm seriously annoyed with 'whoever IAP are now's ' representatives - I've just picked up an email re meetings (as I expect you have too) - In March,.   I have no interest in 'flipping' this investment (whatever that means).  I just want my original money back.   Any meeting in London, or anywhere else, unless it results in positive action is without point.   I'll email my ex-lawyer friend now - and post back any 'first thoughts'.

As I said I'm in London - if anyone wants to meet sooner than IAP's March - let me know?

Kriss

 

 

 

 

 

 




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17 Feb 2009 12:50 PM by inspectahomespain Star rating in Orihuela Costa, Spai.... 2417 forum posts Send private message

Vip Supporter

I am not a buyer on this development but I have been able to help a few people because of my local knowledge and the fact that a few people have switched to the La Cinulecia development

I do not sell property so I have no commercial interest in people cnacelling or continuing their purchases

There are lots of rumours regarding the financial status of San Antonio just an obvious winding down of their operation locally and some statements that they had already, like Sa Jose did, have gone into trading administration, which is not true

It would appear that the building work on the development has stopped, again form reports form local people, but no formal announcement has been made by the developer regarding the formal cancellation of the resort and it is difficult to get hold of the builders staff

The problem is, as demonstrated on the San Jose and La tercia Real developments that it can be better for a bulder to walk away form a development if they are exposed to low sales, reducing values and possible cancellations due to construction delays

The problem is that the only event that triggers a claim for late completion, if you have a BG, is the date in your sales contract which when passed allows you to make a claim and of course if they don´t announce the stop to building on the development then you have to wait for that date

It is the law in Spain that the developer provides a BG which gives you some protection if the developer folds but is more commonly used when the property is late but without a BG you are in an exposed position and if the builder folds, as seen with the problems at San Jose, you may just be another creditor. If the lawyer was provided by IAP and they did not advise you about the BG requirement you should be asking them what they will be doing to help. With no BG your only action is normally a legal case which can take 2-3 years to get to Court

Flipping is the term normally used when a buyer sells their contract to another buyer or perhaps upgrades to another property but I believe what IAP are looking to do is offer buyers properties on other developments like La Cinulecia. There is a rumour that they are trying to offer properties from other developers but I can´t see that the original developer would be keen on doing that. Also check the pricing of anything being offered using a local source.

There are property of key ready properties on La Cinulecia but the area and type of properties don´t compare with a property on a golf resort and you need to think carefully about why you originally purchased the property, investment or lifestyle as there is a glut of rental properties in this area and values have fallen with a number of distressed sellers

Hundreds of people are walking away form purchases loosing their deposits as with the euro rate and falling prices is makes sense for them to do this, on the other side mortgages are MUCH CHEAPER now, Eurobor plus 1.5%

The properties are still valued at the previous rates, typically they will have builders mortgages on them so they are reluctant to reduce the prices and to get a real indication on prices look at local property websites for resales which are normally furnished and where you pay less in transfer tax to buy

In order to bring any form of joint class action you first need to establish if the development has the necessary licences and is still being buolt by the developer and check the dates ans staus of your BG´s

I am sorry that I cannot be more  positive about e situation but I hope this information helps

 

 

 



_______________________
Roy Howitt Independent Property Consultant www.sonrisaproperties.com www.snaggingspain.com WE CAN FIND YOUR DREAM HOME 627 955 748


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17 Feb 2009 4:06 PM by madmau43 Star rating. 24 forum posts Send private message

Hi

We are puzzled by the message from inspectahome because a lady in the Atlas International offfice at La Zenia told us that San Antonio were in administration and San Antonio's office at Villamartin was closed. Also on looking through the window the office appeared to be stripped of furniture and office equipment. Also at the end of last year San Antonio pulled all his workmen off the two state of the art shopping complexes he was building at Punta Prima even though one of them was almost complete. I have been trying to contact San Antonio by email but they are not replying. I do see the representative from inpectahome's point that if someone is set on being on a golf complex then La Cinuelica will not give them that, however there is a very good golf course a short distance away at Villamartin.  The advantage of La Cinuelica to us is that we are within easy walking distance to the beach and a short,cheap bus ride away from Torrevieja.  Also both San Javier and Alicante airport are easliy accessable. We are very happy with where we are but I realise it is down to personal choice and your reasons for buying a place in Spain. I sincerely hope you all reach a happy conclusion.

Best regards

Madmau




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17 Feb 2009 4:21 PM by inspectahomespain Star rating in Orihuela Costa, Spai.... 2417 forum posts Send private message

Vip Supporter

San Antonio have a number of local offices in addition to the one in Villamartin the main one being in Torrevieja by the salt bridge

Until January there were only 2 staff left in the offuce Maity,please excuse the spelling,  and one other

According to my lawyer there is no registered bankruptcy in place for San Antonio  and completions are taking place but people should conform this with they own lawyers as it changes the staus on all contracts

Yes you right l a Cenulica is a fine development the build quality is good, the location by the sea and the commercial centres is good and there are 4 golf courses within a 20 minute drive

As I tried to explain howvever think carefully about why you have bought because I know that a lot of the people buying through IAP are investors wanting rental income will be diffiicult given the number of people trying to rent on this and surrounding developments

You won´t be able to sell the property as there are few buyers around and lots of properties for sale on this development priced from €100k



_______________________
Roy Howitt Independent Property Consultant www.sonrisaproperties.com www.snaggingspain.com WE CAN FIND YOUR DREAM HOME 627 955 748


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17 Feb 2009 4:35 PM by inspectahomespain Star rating in Orihuela Costa, Spai.... 2417 forum posts Send private message

Vip Supporter

You can contact San Antonio sales, after sales and legal on and yes they are answering the telephone

902 20 20 18
 



_______________________
Roy Howitt Independent Property Consultant www.sonrisaproperties.com www.snaggingspain.com WE CAN FIND YOUR DREAM HOME 627 955 748


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17 Feb 2009 5:12 PM by madmau43 Star rating. 24 forum posts Send private message

Hi

Thank you for the number for San Antonio, it is different from the one I had.  I will try to ring them tomorrow.  Yes I agree that there is a lot of competition for rented property in the area around La Cinuelica.  We bought for the long term-in fact probably for life- so I hope it is long term. Also for our family and if we decide to rent we will do so through neighbours, friends and advertise in our local area in England.  So yes you do have to think about why you are buying.

Kind regards

Madmau




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17 Feb 2009 8:33 PM by jarrowmc Star rating. 2 forum posts Send private message

 

 

Hi

We to have paid a deposit on Fortuna Hills Development on Phase 2 to be completed by Sept 09. I have just returned from Fortuna my sister lives on the Las kalendas Development just outside of the town and i can confirm that there has been no further development on this site. We were also out there in December and there was the beginnings of an infrastructure but nothing to suggest that anything habitable would be finished in the near future.

After enquiring as to the future of the development i received this email from Atlas 4th Feb

 "This is just a courtesy message to inform you that we had not heard anything new from your builder who said that they are still actively pursuing the formalities required to re-start the project and that as soon as they know for  definite, they would contact us so we could then pass on the news to our clients."

Viv




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17 Feb 2009 8:40 PM by inspectahomespain Star rating in Orihuela Costa, Spai.... 2417 forum posts Send private message

Vip Supporter

Again as explained in my previous e-mail this is the current stalling tactic being used by Spanish developers to avoid paying out against the BG´s or formally admitting that the development has stopped

It is worth checking the name of the company whose name appears on the contract as today a local lawyer has advised me that a , division of Grupo San Antonio has gone into administration.what amount to bankruptcy protection

The people that should be chasing this for you is either your lawyer or an idpendant lawyer should be advising you on action required and you shouldn´t rely on the agent 



_______________________
Roy Howitt Independent Property Consultant www.sonrisaproperties.com www.snaggingspain.com WE CAN FIND YOUR DREAM HOME 627 955 748


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17 Feb 2009 9:58 PM by madmau43 Star rating. 24 forum posts Send private message

Hi

To those of you who are with IAP Global and are thinking of moving your deposits perhaps you would like to look at a report from the Mirror Newspaper earlier this year.  If you type IAP Global Florida into your google browser and open the second item down headed-Cautionary Tale about Jim Moore's IAP Global-investigations you will find an interesting article on Jim Moore.  Then if you scroll to the bottom you will see an invitation from other investors to join forces.  In view of this article if you decide to move your deposit to another development it might be wise to do as Roy at inspectahome suggested and do your own check on the going prices.  Take care

Regards Madmau


 



This message was last edited by madmau43 on 2/17/2009.



This message was last edited by madmau43 on 2/17/2009.


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25 Feb 2009 12:45 PM by sliding doors Star rating. 7 forum posts Send private message

can anyone recommend a good spanish lawyer?




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27 Feb 2009 2:03 PM by rosariomac Star rating. 2 forum posts Send private message

San Antonia will possibly never complete here..We traded in against another completed property built by them..They were more than happy to negotiate on price...would not waste time with lawyers




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27 Feb 2009 2:25 PM by madmau43 Star rating. 24 forum posts Send private message

I have to say I agree with the last comment  i.e. if the builder is the one holding your deposit by pass the agent and deal directly with the builder.  The agents lie to you and mislead you in order to get their large commision.  However I would still advocate having a good lawyer to check everything over.  Good luck.

Regards

Madmau




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27 Feb 2009 2:35 PM by sliding doors Star rating. 7 forum posts Send private message

ok but how do you find out about the other developments? when you google san antonia builders, nothing comes up




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27 Feb 2009 2:44 PM by rosariomac Star rating. 2 forum posts Send private message

tel no for SA in Orihuela is 34 966 737 664   They have a nice development at La Finca Golf Course near Algorfa...Paradise Golf...not noted on the forum as yet..Believe there are remaining properties


 



This message was last edited by rosariomac on 2/27/2009.


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27 Feb 2009 5:07 PM by madmau43 Star rating. 24 forum posts Send private message

To get on the builders web site  google     Sanantonio.es.   The builder has a good few town houses left on La Cinuelica R16 much better than the 3 storey apartments on R17 which your agent might show you :-  2 bedrooms, bathroom,  separate cloakroom, roof terrace, front and back patio and balcony and underground parking.    If it were me I would try to negotiate one of those at an apartment price. The other developments San Antonio is supposed to be building and which he advertises on his website:-Los Balcones and Pueblo la Sal are in a worse position than Fortuna hill as he has done absolutely no work  at all on these.  I can't speak for Paradise Golf as I know nothing about it.

Regards

Madmau




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03 Mar 2009 12:00 PM by sliding doors Star rating. 7 forum posts Send private message

thanks guys thats really useful. We're attending the Mcr meeting scheduled for the 11th is anyone else going?




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06 Mar 2009 8:51 AM by charlie_charlesworth Star rating. 4 forum posts Send private message

I'm unable to go to any of the meetings.  Can someone give me an overview of the main points from the meeting yesterday?




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06 Mar 2009 11:33 AM by sliding doors Star rating. 7 forum posts Send private message

Basically, the purpose of these meetings are to bring all the investors together. IAP will provide an update on the current situ and go through the flipping options.

If you can go I'd strongly recommend that you do, if nothing else you'll meet other like minded investors




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06 Mar 2009 7:23 PM by mek Star rating. 4 forum posts Send private message

We paid our deposit through IAP almost 3 yrs ago.

I kept in constant touch with IAP and made 2 visits to the site, Feb o7 and Fem 08. The last visit showed all the frames up and everything looked fine. Iap then said there would be a delay but did not mention the right to sue the builder for being in excess of 6 months late. IAP then said a completion in Nov 08 qickly followed by Nov 09.

 

We have been in contact with the Spanish lawyers and have been informed that they did not receive a bankers guarantee for our property as agreed. They said it was the builders responsibility and as they were issuing guarantees on an individual basis they assumed all was ok. Well fancy a lawyer assuming anything with regard to a considerable amount of money they handed over. Oh and yes there were guarantees issued - 6 out of over 300!

IAP mark 2 are now sourcing alternitives as the building work has stopped and no firm news on any real further progress. IAP say they are sourcing alternitives at market price minus our deposits but I do not trust their idea of market price.

 

Anyway there is a meeting of us mugs with IAP in Manchester on 11 Mar.

 

Regards and any info accepted.




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