Phase 4

Hi Calvin,

Totally agree with all you say.

At least we have bank guarantees. Not sure what value they are, but they must be better than nothing. I suspect they will be worth more in the hands of a good, independent Lawyer. I have serious concerns about the motivations and allegiancies of our Lawyers. Unless they are prepared to work extremely hard on our behalf and be focussed on getting our deposits back, any further payments feel like a waste.

Regarding the developers, I would be disappointed if a few days of rain were considered as an "Act of God". If there had been an earthquake or a tsunami etc well, that's different, but I'm not aware of anything particular in the last few years.
I think the "period of grace" is that quoted in our PCCs, nothing more.

Whilst almost certainly there has been a degree of miss-selling by all the Agents (promises of huge investment returns etc), I doubt if there is anything concrete where they could be considered liable (especially in a Spanish court !).

My biggest concern is that even with a good, independent Lawyer, the corruption and shady practices that exist at all levels within the Spanish legal, financial, local government and judicial systems may mean that a positive result for us may be difficult to achieve.

What did you think about the idea of a few of us grouping together to make a combined case ?

Hi All,
         This is my first posting but have been reading with Interest over the last few weeks regarding our investments, Ha Ha
I have also bought in phase 4. I have not yet recieved the letter from lawyers of spain, but reading everyones views I am very concerned about the situation, I agree with JJ we should join forces in a attempt to get our deposits returned if Promaga fail to finish on time, when do we start the ball rolling ? 
                                                                                      Thanks  belly

Hi Everyone
we had a letter from Lawyers of Spain (LoS) saying yes Promaga had admitted they would not complete phase 4 within the grace period. For us this was the end of October (purchase date) and hence end of January as grace period. We were told that at this point we should claim our monies back as Promaga had broken their contract. However LoS also said Promaga would refuse to pay so they would get it from the bank (they said this was a normal thing that all developers do - didn't tell us that in the sales pitch though!). LoS said do not worry just let us know at the end of January that you want to claim and we will deal with it (I have this via email). The next day out pops the newsletter and we are shocked at what is written there!
Both LoS and ADH have mislead us and I agree we need to join together to stop this obvious threat - try to get your money back and it will cost you more!

 

Hi JJ and All

Think it is about time we took some action; enough talk lets all get a formal letter of complaint in to the Lawyers of Spain  and ADH with all our names on.

Any body who has concerns about getting there deposit back when promaga miss there completion time.

Please had your name here phase of property and block etc.

Calvin Steeples             Vista Hermosa              phase 4           block 1

 

When you have added your details repost up to message board. And your name will be added to the letter of complaint and concerns in due time.

This will be the only way to get a result, so we need to unite and get as many names as possible.

JJ you will probably know what to put in the letter of complaint/ concerns better than me.

Anybody else with ideas.  Please share them.

Calvin

look at this

Dr William Akotia Says:
October 15th, 2008 at 4:17 pm

I went to Spain to look for a property to purchase to use as a holiday home and also to rent.I paid a deposit of 6000 Euros for a Reservation Fee. I had a message that the developers’ account was closed. Therefore the fee has been returned to my Bank account I have still not received the amount into my Bank account since last year. The company involved is called Andalucian Home Dreames

Hi All

Think it is about time we took some action; enough talk lets all get a formal letter of complaint in to the Lawyers of Spain  and ADH with all our names on.

Any body who has concerns about getting there deposit back when promaga miss there completion time.

Please had your name here phase of property and block etc.

Calvin  xxxxxxxxxx            Vista Hermosa              phase 4           block 1

 

When you have added your details repost up to my private message board. And your name will be added to the letter of complaint and concerns in due time. 

thanks Calvin

hi all,
a few questions if anybody  can comment.
i have been told that bank guarentees are almost useless, and would take years of litigation.
i would certainly like to be included in any joint action.
who are lawyers of Spain? why are they sending  emails/newsletters to some of you?
where did they get your information and addresses? is it only people in phase 4 who are getting this info?
i am in phase 3.
can anybody tell me who the legal people that andalucian dream homes were trying to push on me, i think they also work for them, i got a different solicitor
as for prices of property my enquires  lead   me  to believe that they have fallen between 33% and 45%.. last month a friend of mine introduced me to a wealthy friend of his.
he has lived in Marbella for  10 years ad is starting to invest in property. he had just completed the purchase of 3 properties for  between 600,000 and 7000,000 euros. all properties had been on sale for more than a year  and had been reduced down from a starting price of 1.25 millon euros.
this made me look in a lot of auctioneers windows and they had a lot of properties with reduced prices, he advised me to forget about Vista Hermosa and  look around for a different property  at a 40% reduction and take the 20% loss of deposit
any comments please  reply
claudsalt

Hi Claudsalt

Yes we can add you in on any action we may take in the future.

But before we can take any action promaga will after to be out of time on their completion date for Phase Four which is March 09.  I do not know what the date is for Phase Three. ( hope you can update me on this and how far are promaga from the LoFO for this phase.)  Phase One has now been completed and issued with the LoFO as far has I am aware.

Lawyers of Spain are the lawyers that were recommended to us by ADH to keep the buying process in house.  Which a lot of us took this bad advice when first purchasing.

If we can get our deposits back it certainly mean we will be going down the litigation road and this will unfortunately take time and monies.

Yes prices are discounted now all over Spain and we are paying far too much for these properties at Vista Hermosa development site at todays prices.

For all of us tied up in this mess it is just a waiting game to see what happens.

Your wealthy friend, what does he mean by you taking 20% loss of deposit?  My understanding is that if we are not successful with the litigation we will lose all of the deposit.

PS.

Does any one know how Phase Two stands?

Would love hear from any one who as completed or moved in on site . For an update on what is actually happing on site.

Thanks

Calvin    (will be flying out in Jan)

I have Phase 2 and I have seen an improvement and people working on site (not many but still better than no one). I was told that completion would probably be towards Q1 2009, but for me the story is a bit different as this would be a summer home and I originally purchased at the original price.

All I hope is that the complex as a whole is finished, because it would really de value my property if phase 4 was left unfinished. As for completion date what also needs to be evaluated is if Promaga are cutting corners in order to meet this completion date!

I will probably look at how the development has progressed this weeken, and I will keep you posted.

I will tell you one thing with the current scenario, and increased preassure from buyers the easy option for these companies is to declare themselves bankrupt and we would loose out anyway, so honestly even if they are a bit late I would like for the complex to be finished at least.

hi Calvin,
phase 3 was originally contracted to be completed in october 2008 and then the letter from ADH  extending this to december 2008.
regarding the 20% loss of deposit (maybe i should have said 20% first payment)
I like every other purchaser have already handed over this payment and the other 80% is due on completion. he says walk away from the deal and lose the 20% already paid and seek far better value at reductions of 40%+ that are available at the moment
of course all these % losses are pure speculation and we wont know the true values until people complete the deal and then resell.  a lot will depend on all 4 phases being finished and the quality of the finish,  look at the mess they have started regarding the fit out in the kitchens.  (see the new posting I put in last night)
my solicitor informs me that LoFO  has been issued for phase 3
claudsalt
 

i am going over tomorrow and staying for a few weeks where i will be able to see whats going on




















































0 .

i visited site last monday,

plenty of workers on site,i was told that 2 houses had been handed over and people had moved in.

they wanted to draw up a snagging list and prepare to complete, i have no doubt that this development will be completed.

overall i am disappointed with the development,  there are too many units crammed into the site, development has far too many entrances and exits , not very secure, swimming pools and sunbathing area is tiny for a development of this size, the colour of the buildings is poor (what happened the white that was on all the brochurs), and no kitchen  fittings.

promaga will finish this site as fast as possible considering the amount of cash tied up there

i noticed people working on the site on the next hill which is also being developed by promaga

claudsalt

I agree the pool area is a bit small and it is certainly not what we saw on the brochure. Anyway I think that if we look on the positive side the complex will not be 100% sold so at least we will not have to fight for pool space Ha Ha Ha ..........

I see that on average there are around 240 people that have accessed your message, do we know how many people have bought a house in Vista Hermosa?

 

 

Hi claudsalt

Let me get this right are you talking about Phase 4 or Phase 3? Do you know if Phase 4 is also being worked on and will be completed by March-2009? This is what we have have told by by ADH. This is still over 6 month off the original completion of Oct-2008. Did you get to speak to Promaga (Christian or someone else)? If so what did they say about Phase-4? I would be very much interested to hear of any news you may have on Phase-4 please.

Thanks

FHS

Sorry I was I was talking about my flat in phase 2. I do not know excactly which one is phase 3 and which one is phase 4, but they seem to be working on all the remaining phases at the moment.

Hello All,

I have been reading your blogs with interest about Vista Hermosa.  I must say that many valid points are been made about the development.  I had a meeting with their lawyers in their office in La Linea.  The meeting started at 17.15 and ended at 19.30hrs.

I brought up most of what I have read over the last few months about V H.  I pointed out the delays in finishing the phase's, especially 4.  Their reply was the difficult weather conditions and that they encountered a problem with the ground which cost a lot of time and money to overcome.

I challenged them about the painting of the buildings and I insisted that they misled us all with their brochure colours, as far as I know there is no grey in the brochure!  They agreed that the signature block 8, should have been painted in Andalucian  white. They said every second row have a different colour, and it looks like they had only 2 colour's to choose from!

I asked about the swimming pool that was to be built behind block 1 (phase 4) and they said the local council  wanted that space as a green area and they couldn't build there! (Makes you wonder if they had the ground in the first place!)

I asked about the fitted kitchens, their reply was they were having problems with the kitchen providers and their work was not up to standard, they decided to offer €6000 in compensation to those people affected and they should put in their own kitchens!

My overall impression is that they are cutting corners in certain area's, i.e. paint, size of swimming pools,and the kitchens.

I have the feeling that they are trying to finish this development as fast as possible.  They are worried about this site.  I have told them that there is a lot of resentment building up. 

The current situation is not helped by those people who bought off plan and were going to sell before completion.  Now with the state of the £ they are on a looser, make no bones about it, trying to sell in the current market is neigh on impossible.  They have to stump up with the remainder of the purchase money and they are in a pickle!  No wonder some of them are considering legal action to try and recover their deposits!

I asked Promaga about this, they insisted that it would have to go before a judge and that would take a lot of time and money and they were confident that in the end there would be no winners (only the lawyers).

I am now living just down the road from the development.  I have a walk around the place every day, the work is going on at a fast pace and I am sure that it will be finished by March if the weather holds!

Every time Mr Brown and Mr King (BOE) goes on telly and tells the world that UK PLC has either gone down the pan or is already there only makes the £ depreciate faster against the euro! 

We need people like them like a hole in the head at this time...!

 

All the best.

 

Jono>

 

 

 

 

 

 

hi fhs,

i am in phase 3 and thats what i am talking about.

the work was going on in all phases

christian has left promaga

the guy i spoke to had very little english and you could not have a proper conversation with him

claudsalt

sorry i did not ask anything about phase  4 but there was a lot of work going on on that phase

Thank you Claudsalt and especially Jono1 for very detailed report. Jono1 - now taht you are living not far from the Vista Hermosa developement  - perhaps you would be kind enough to keep us posted as to how it is progressing lets say once week - if it is not too much of a trouble. I am especially interested in the Phase-4. 

FHS

Hi All,

Not sure if any of you have seen this report which came from Cadiz News. It relates to a demonstration against Promaga in La Linea, planned for today (Sat 29th).

Although not directly associated with Vista Hermosa, it shows that Promaga obviously have some serious problems on a number of fronts.

Not sure if you were going to get involved in this Jono ?

Regards

John

Hello All,

I was in the Promaga office in La Linea on Saturday morning and saw no demostration.  The office closed at 2pm.  As mentioned before, Promaga are completing Vista Hermosa and have put a hold on several other promotions till the present climate changes.

I know  they are tricky people to deal with, although I actually want to live in V.H. they are giving me the run around keeping me waiting for a simple answer.  On the advice of my solicitor I want to change from phase 4 to 2...buy something that's built she advised!  I am waiting for the licence to occupy to be issued by the local council, they have told me that it will be issued by Christmas or soon after.

Best wishes.

 

Jono.

 

 

HI all

Has anybody got any news on the progress of the site, or heard from their lawyers,or been around the site lately.?

Wishing everybody a merry christmas and a happy new year.  Ho Ho Ho!!!

Calvin & Elly