Warning! I do not recommend Ocean Estates

Please do not deal with this estate agent, they are very expensive, dont care for their clients after the purchase and treat their staff like sh*t. At this moment they dont have any money and are not paying the salaries for their staff.
This knowledge is taken from the inside....

Quote.........At this moment they dont have any money



It couldn't happen to a "nicer" company!! YIPPEEEEEEEE!!!

This message was last edited by Tish on 1/18/2007.

We purchased our apartment through ocean estates and so far they have been very good. we are meeting up with the after sales team in march and hopefully all will go well

Oh! they are THE best....(that's what they will tell you) until ;
a) they have their commission from your purchase 
                               OR
b)things start to go wrong.

Let's hope you are not disappointed! (that is if you are not an employee...that's how much I trust anyone who has a good word to say about this company.) Too many people have been s*****d by them.

Ocean Estates have a stand at this years expo in Dublin booked for this may so they must have some money!
are they part of Medsea or is that a different company?

But it seems not enough to pay their staff.! I wonder if there will be anyone left to work the stand?

Ok they may not be perfect --- but do we really think that agents are there to just help us buy a property!!!! They are there to make as much money as they can, as anyone who has worked in sales, or has relatives/friends in sales knows. Did your last car salesman really sell you the car you wamted to buy when you set out to buy a car!!!! How many people in the UK have have agreed to have  their gas/electricity/telephone services changed by agressive sales people in the supermarket/PO/or at home. 

They are selling a dream to most people, and it is up to individuals to be careful that what they buy is the best for them. You do not have to buy a property.... you can say no. If you cannot say no you should not be buying abroad.

I have bought through OEI and yes there have been issues that could have been handled better, but I used an independant solicitor as everyone should.

We had a major problem with some of the furniture we bought through with an OEI customer service rep, (our  bed and bedside tables & headboard would not fit into our bedroom) and as I had written confirmation that evrything would fit from OIE they arranged for the bed to be changed and paid for a new headboard.

I am not connected with OEI in any way and yes given the time again I may have used someone else... but would they have been any better????

Void

This message was last edited by Tish on 1/19/2007.

Could it be that the bed did not fit because your apartment was built smaller than the orignal plans? This is a common complaint!!!!

Hello  Tish,

There are diferent ways to measure apartments in Spain... some are the "built square meters", which includes the thickness of the walls , covered terraces count for 50% of their surface and they add also your share of the common areas..

Some others give you the built surface of the apartment... for the "usable area" substract some 10% to compensate for the walls and substract the terraces unless you consider them living space, as I do and you are okey for "enclosed living space"

I hope this helped......

Juan.

Yes Juan as a knowledgeable agent I assume that you explain to all your clients that built area includes thickness of the walls and that they lose 10% of the superficie utile - however I reckon that a significant number do not tell clients that - usually because they do not know. The independents without flash offices, cars, telesales teams to support etgc who offer a more personalised service will tend to (not always I grant you) be more likely to inform on this type of thing because they are more hands on and likely to know this type of thing.

We used Ocean Estates in 2003 and bought off-plan in Duquesa Village, Manilva and, to date, everything is fine - save for the building delays, which can hardly be blamed on Ocean Estates. We did, however, check out the area extensively, checked out the developers, and knew exactly how buying off-plan worked (and the room sizes have turned out fine!) and are very happy with our apartment (although haven't had the snagging done yet!!). Ocean have, on the whole, kept us informed and we did not experience any "hard sell" from the guy who dealt with us (who has since set up his own business). Maybe because we knew the area and knew what we were looking for. Personally, I don't know Ocean's financial situation at the moment, and wouldn't help to promote any company that I wasn't fully acquainted with, but neither would I try to put them down without fully knowing their circumstances and reliable details - although I'm sure the original post would not have been made without such!!!

Hi Pitby - I am led to believe that Ocean are finding it tough - they have lost a lot of the old hands as they are not making sales. Think the bad publicity they suffered in The Times a couple or so years back is having a far reaching effect. Would agree that agent has no control over delays with developer in most cases. Situations where I believe they are just as culpable (perhaps I will be more specific in another thread) but generally not to blame.

Just for info a client of mine buying at Duquesa village went up there for a visit last week and was very impressed by the standard of  finish. There was an observation that exterior was perhaps not as might have been liked - I understand the rendering is rustic effect - ie random and the colour terracotta is not a preference. However on the practical side of things white gets dirty very quickly and soon looks a mess and a rustic finish is very common over here unlike the UK. This was the first time she had accompanied her husband to visit the complex and I think overall the impression was very good.

Hi Smiley, I think we were very lucky with the agent we had showing us around - he was a really nice guy and, as I mentioned, he has since left Ocean and set up on his own. I did, in fact, read the Times article and, in all honesty said then what I say now, that one has to take responsibility for their investments to a greater extent and not put all the onus on one agent, who is on a commission! I think it did help that we did actually do a bit of research and I had spent some time on the Costa del Sol many years ago, so we knew exactly where we were looking to buy and what to expect. I do think that alot of the time - and this isn't directed to anyone who has posted on this forum - people don't do enough research themselves and put too much trust in an agent, who at the end of the day is just trying to make a buck! They are in business. The developers of Duquesa Village did, in fact, change the rendering of the village from white to mixed shades of "rustic", but, for us, that was fine and it actually blends into the hillside very nicely! Not that we will be viewing it from that angle!!

This message was last edited by Pitby on 1/20/2007.

Totally agree with warninggirl, Awful Estates as this company is also known, are, NOT TO BE TRUSTED. Exhorbitant add-on commissions that the buyer pays, dodgy recommended lawyers, zilch after sales service or contact, false promises about the market and re-selling, staff always moving on (no continuity), API No. that belongs to their in-house lawyer F. Franco, White Whale scandal involvement, at least 5 exposes in the S. Times on Spain, and, (including Turkey), and Mail on Sunday, Irish TV exposes, showing developments where B. money is required (eg Green Life, Elviria), etc etc. They are still at it in Spain, Bulgaria, Turkey, S.Africa, Portugal, U.S. etc etc Steer well clear of this Company, for the sake of your health AND wallet!

Hi Pitby - yeah like you I know a couple of good guys from Ocean that seemed to do things the decent way - dont necessarily know that they were entirely comfortable in their environment nor that they would have been considered as the ideal profile for their staff. Then again what do I know

One thing about buying through Ocean/Awful Estates, is that if you wanted to re-sell you'd find that it would be difficult just getting your money back for many years because of their huge added on commission included in the purchase price, in the past this has been as much as 30% on off-plan development. People are simply paying way over the odds for property off-plan bought through some of these agents, they are losing money the day they are handed the keys, especially now in this poor Spanish .market.

Smiley, you are probably right and, as I said, we were very lucky to have one of the decent ones! Maybe I've become a little cynical (plus we haven't actually encountered a problem with Ocean to date!), but here in the UAE, anyone renting and now indeed purchasing, always has to pay the agents fees (usually 5pc) up front, not the lessor/vendor. I think if I were to post stories about estate agents in this part of the world, Ocean would look like Angels of Andalucia!! And let's not start on developers here!! Delays, build quality, etc., etc.

Right now a lot of companys are in trouble, the market has slowed down and with investments in other countrys such as bulgaria and turkey, Estate agencys have been hit hard.

I have worked for 3 of them on the coast, the best one was Livingstone estates, great company to work for, cared about the staff and the clients, paid well and on time, offered contracts ect ect only down side they make you pay for the bottled water!! Ha ha

Getting out of realestate made some good money but going sour very fast.

Good LOrd Scambuster 30% are you sure? You want to tell Juan Pazon on the commission thread if thats true - the highest I have been aware of is 20% - flippin' 'eck!!

Absolutely true Smiley well according to the findings of the S. Times reporter who exposed Awful Estates, and I tend to believe them otherwise they would have been sued, also Mark Stucklin on www.spanishpropertyinsight.com has mentioned such figures before.

As for Juan Pazon, he can see this and follow it up now if he wants, unfortunately the Spanish regulators are slow and pathetic in cracking down on such scams.

ATTN: WARNINGGIRL - A reply to your email posted Jan 18th

Ocean Estates are expensive? You mean 5-7% commission is not the norm on this coast? Get your facts straight before you start hammering companies such as Ocean who probably taught you all you know about the coast and real estate.

Don’t care for their clients and treat their staff like Sh*t? Your right, many fly-by sales girls/boys (probably such as yourself) do not care for clients after they get the sale and they then leave behind their trail, giving companies such as Ocean a bad name. 

I know many people and myself who have worked/work at Ocean for many years and have never heard anyone say they were treated like sh*t. In fact, the only people that tend to make those kinds of comments are the ones that were sh*t at there jobs and blames it on the company.

No money, no salaries? All real estate companies on this coast are going through a tough time at the moment and if your smart you cut costs in everyway possible, that does not mean the company "has no money"!

At this moment, not a single person from Ocean will say they have not been paid. I know for a fact (as you put it) that salaries were paid late, however, they were paid.

You just sound like a very bitter person.

From,

HAPPY STAFF!

Ocean Estates are expensive? You mean 5-7% commission is not the norm on this coast? Get your facts straight before you start hammering companies such as Ocean who probably taught you all you know about the coast and real estate.

Ocean Estates are VERY expensive. They took 15% from our 30%  (according to the lawyer, recommended by your company AND the developer!!)
deposit ! They only admitted to 7%!!

Don’t care for their clients and treat their staff like Sh*t?

Can't speak for the staff, but I can say that is exactly how it is for the client..from experience!!

You just sound like a very bitter person.

There are many members of this club  that have had the misfortune to have anything to do with your company!!!

I wonder how long you will remain "Happy Staff"???...I guess until you don't get paid!

This message was last edited by Tish on 1/25/2007.

This message was last edited by Tish on 1/25/2007.

Tish, the posting by SPY1 is a total load of bullshit, many Ocean Estates staff DID NOT receive their commissions at all, including Rik Nijs, Paul Rossiter, Ben Melia, Chris Dyson, and more according to Sarah Drane their ex marketing manager. Many were indeed treated like sh1t, including Hayley Nieve, and a few young sales girls were given the bonus of a bun in the oven by some of their harrassing male members, in fact, a senior sales manager was dismissed for sexual harrassment and then re-employed (because sales figures were down).

Some went on to start their own Agencies and didn't go to Court because of  possible recriminations against their agencies.

You're absolutely right about their exhorbitant commissions, in some cases as much as 30% added on to the sales price of new build. They also couldn't re-sell for their clients despite boasting that they re-sell 93% (in writing) of all their investors properties.

This Company as I've said before, have been exposed at least 5 times by both the S. Times and Mail on Sunday for all sorts of mis-selling dirty tricks, not once have they dared sue the S. Times, and, there are still moles within their offices coming out with yet more dirty washing.

So, Tish and others conned by them, don't listen to the rantings of some of their sales staff, they're plain lying as always.

 

Says it all really about Ocean, read it through if you've time Tish and others, click on the links!!!

 

http://property.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,14052-1260342,00.html

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1582327,00.html

There's more like that including their selling Land Grab property in Costa Blanca, and, mis-selling in Turkey etc. They daren't take on the S. Times who've really do their homework.

Avoid Ocean like the Plague.

Scambuster, do you actually have anything recent to post regarding Ocean? So far we have had but a handful (or less) of people complain about Ocean and I know at least four purchasers who went through them who are actually happy with their services. Your links are at the least two years old and we've all read them - and Ocean weren't the only estate agents involved in certain sales, as is evident in one of your links regarding Alcaidesa! And, the other link you posted about the disgruntled former employee - well, we bought when she was actually employed with them and we didn't experience the hard sell tactics she obviously chose to employ!! One or two people can raise a hell of a lot of crap if they want to, but unfortunately those who don't have anything bad to raise really don't wish to bother either way! Aftersales service isn't really a factor to totally demolish the reputation of a company and, whilst they may have used hard sales tactics with some (have to say, not us, but then we weren't on a "weekend inspection visit"), that's the name of the game! They're sharks! Most of them are! I was ripped off in London nearly twenty years ago by a "lone agent" on a fixed fee (happily I'm grown up now!!). Why do estate agents have such a bad reputation!???!! I'm not saying people should be blatantly ripped off, but they should also take responsibility for their own investments, as I've said before. We bought (over three years ago, off plan) for the long term and, basically, would never have invested short term in the area (Costa del Sol) because it just wasn't feasible. At the end of the day, people have to be responsible in what they invest in and check it out independently - you wouldn't invest your life savings in an antique you didn't have any knowledge about, would you? Or would you just take the saleman's "advice" about it??? This thread is getting just a little bit contentious!

This message was last edited by Pitby on 1/27/2007.

This message was last edited by Pitby on 1/27/2007.

Hi Pitby in essence I agree with you that people should take responsibility for their own actions. However a bone of contention that I would have (and I have had at least four clients who have experienced this so no doubt it was happening more) is that someone comes over here with a proposed budget of say 250,000€. They get taken to see several developments with prices starting at 100,000€ more. Then finally they get taken to see units at 250k. Surprisingly enough all of a sudden the apartment at 250k is not what they DESIRE any more. Fair enough people should be strong willed enough to stick to their guns over what they want as they know their budget but in the heady days there were stories of 20% per annum capital growth so people were generally lulled into a false sense of security. Again I agree people are in control of their own destiny but I have seen people get bowled over and they have literally fallen in love with the property that is 100k more than their budget and we live in a "got to have it" society. At times it was quite blatant and on more than one occasion I had people saying to me how can I get them to show me something in my price range? The big problem is that not everyone is as thorough as you are - yes they should be I agree! But some less scrupulous individuals will always try to exploit this "must have" emotion or indeed prey on people who believe everything they are told. If they didnt we would not have such a large surplus of property on the CDS as we speak.

Why do so many people ASSUME everyone is an investor...out to make money. It seems that if you ARE an investor then it is fair game to get ripped off!  What about those of us that didn't go on an inspection trip or wear rose tinted glasses AND still had a brain in their head!! ??? Did we deserve to get ripped off?  I don't think so!

This message was last edited by Tish on 1/29/2007.

Estate agents are only sharks they have no qualification as such only a smooth tongue. Are they any different from time share people who have plagued us in the past.? We need them? Sadly we do but must bear in mind they are only salesmen and in some cases women. Keep that in mind when you listen to there smooth talk they are not on your friends only trying to get as much of your hard earned cash as they can regardless of the consequences         these are the thought of cynic whose been had many times and is still falling for the occasional scam

In reply to haydngi comments regarding "all estate agents".

Being an agent myself i find that very offensive,with over 15 years experience in the uk and three more here i am very proud of my company and the job that we all do here.

We work on our reputation and i would allow anyone to to ask our clients how they are treated both initially and through to completion.

As for Qualifications i have several from the NAEA and worked very hard to get them!

You have obviously been mistreated by someone to have such a poor opinion of estate agents in general but dont forget that there are some of us that are still honest and get great job satisfaction from customer care.

Anyone can be an estate agent but not everyone is aware of what the job actually entails!

you do not actually need a smooth tongue if you find people what they are looking for,the art is listening and not trying to sell something but find something.

i would also like to say that contrary to your opinion most of my clients have become friends and regulary return to our shop either on business or on personal terms