Looking to buy rural land to site holiday cabin or caravan

 Hi i recently looked in to traveling down to spain from edinburgh  to do a bit of fishing on the river ebro  around riba roja  when  looking for ideas i came across  this web site  thinkspain com  and i was listing  rural propertys that seem to be perfect for what i would consider  a perfect holiday getaway .EG  ref 793093 with many more saying 3 hectare ruins ready to rebuild ideal for caravan  5 mins from the river and local town  all this and sunshine to !!!

 the thought that i could own a piece of sunny spain away from the hussle and bussle for these sort of prices  has got me quite interested .

my questions are is there any major pitfalls with these types of propertys i should look out for.

is there any major annual cash outlay eg local taxes on these type of plots.

is there any scams associated with these types of deals  can land like this be legaly sold while having any other claims to it 

i know in the uk there are legal requirments when making a statment and presenting .a property .eg some ads state u can erect a building or site no permanant cabin or caravan .are these legaly binding statments or just estate agent flimflam.

i know my own soliciter can advise me on any of these issues but it would be nice to have a better understanding i am also aware that there are no final answers to these as law and rules change for each district and local authority.

i have looked at web pages for over a week now and all i seem to get is beware spending cash in spain ,coruption is rife  everyone is out to rob you local officials and  expats i dont beleve this to be true  just feel very cautious.

how long would a tranaction of this type normaly take to complete as i cannot face another scottish summer.

Are these types of places worth the bother ? or should i buy a staic caravan outside one of the costa resorts for twice as much and have a £5000 a year outlay for the pleasure of sun shine . i think a outright purchase and unlimited use and no crowds a better option .

sorry for all the blah blah  any help advice or stories appreciated  

Unfortunately it is true, Spain is rife with corruption and misrepresentation, even though they will have you believe they are trying to put things right by bulldozing a few innocent buyers homes! If you have not tried to do business and in particular buy property in Spain then my advice is to trust NO ONE, especially the estate agent that claims that a property is "ideal for rural tourism" or "ideal for a B&B" or "land perfect for wooden chalets". The truth is they have no idea whether a property is suitable for the purpose they claim because they do not bother to check with the town hall etc, and even if they did they wouldn't get a straight answer. This is what they would like you to believe because they want you to buy the property and make their vast amount of commission, which incidentaly is added on top of the owners price and can often be as much as 20k to 30k euros more than the owner is asking for the property - BEWARE!! I know this because I used to work in the industry, with an English agent that despite claiming to be everyones 'friend' was happily ripping off naive fellow countrymen.

Bear in mind that many old cortios and ruins don't have papers or have not been registered. Because of the Spanish tradition of under-declaration or non-declaration, many older places just simply haven't been registered. This can cause all kinds of problems especially if you need to bring services such as electricity and water to the site.

Business is business and just because it is warm and sunny and you can imagine yourself living your idillic lifestyle, don't fall for the old 'rose tinted glasses' folly.

Having said all of that, don't let me put you off. If you are determined then go for it, but keep your feet firmly on the ground, trust NO ONE, especially the estate agent, and get a good bi-lingual lawyer - there are a few that post on this forum. Good luck!

Dont believe anything that Agents or sellers tell you.  We bought land which we were told we could build a house on.  Permission given by the Mayor  - everyone was happy, the farmers were getting inflated land prices for non urban land, the Mayor was getting his permission fees, the architects were getting their fees, the builders merchents were selling lots of bricks etc and we though we were doing everything right - all was going well until we finished the build.  We now have a demolition order on it and have spent several thousands of euros trying to fight this case.  We are in Catalunya near the Ebro so dont let anyone tell you Catalunya is different and not like Spain.  Most rural land can not be built on.  Previously the Mayors let you do anything and then along comes Urbanismo (government department) and the Mayor washes his hand of you and you are left with a very hefty fine and a demolition order. If you really want to come to Spain then get a good Spanish lawyer and make sure the building is registered as residential and has a habitation certificate.  Dont let anyone sell you a farm shed that has been converted to a house, it is not legal and never will be, and if you buy a ruin you still have to get permission to bring it back to a habitable building just like the planning laws in the Uk.

After saying all this most Spanish are very nice helpful people.

Not all Estate Agents are ' Baddies' We now work for the Agent that we bought from!! You are always going to get people that are unhappy with what they have bought, but in a lot of casses they just didn't do their homework. We are honest with our clients, sometimes sellers don't tell us about problems, so unfortunatly we can't pass the information on!!

Caz

Hi Roybud,

I am curious to know how an estate agent can add between 20k - 30k on top of an owners price without the owner knowing this? surely documents have to be signed by both parties as to the agreed selling/buying price (not including the fees paid by both parties)  As you have gone so far as to relate this on here maybe you can give some more info that can help without revealing too much.  I think there should be classes for people who wish to sell/buy privately so we have all the info needed to buy and sell this way, It's about time we gave estate agents a run for their money. I do know that Justin once recommended a book on how to do it privately, unfortunately I never got round to buying it. 

Nothing to do with this thread but while I am here, I now have a new email address, do I have to reregister can anyone tell me please.

Regards kathy

1962

Bear in mind I am talking about re-sale properties in inland and rural areas purchased from a Spanish owner - not new build purchased from a developer. For this type of property it is standard practice for the owner to set their price and the agent to add their fees on top. The owners know this and as long as they got their price they don't particularly care what the agent is adding on. As I said, not unusual to be between 15k to 30k  depending on the size of the property etc and often there is a middle man or coredor in between the owner and the agent who also adds on his bit. This is why you often see the same house for sale at several different prices.

The buyer would be told they had to pay a proportion in cash (black money) and the value was under-declared on the paperwork. The buyers were told this was all normal practice and were generally confused and naive enough to simply go along with it. The agent would be in league with the lawyer (who was recommended to the buyer by the agent). At the completion, the Notary would also turn a blind eye by conveniently leaving the room while the lawyer and the owner exchanged envelopes of cash, the lawyer having already siphoned off the agents fees (in cash obviously). I was even told that there would often be 2 different contracts, 1 for the owner and 1 for the buyer, needless to say both showed different figures. And people wonder why Spain has such a bad reputation for underhanded dealing??

This is why I say trust NO ONE. I am sure there are some honest agents and lawyers out there but how do you find them? I am also told that things are starting to change now and a law has been passed which means agents have to declare the commission they are earning, but how stringently is this law being enforced one has to ask? I believe it will take several generations before the Spanish change their culture of under-declaration and underhand dealings.

So, a few simple tips when buying a property in Spain: 1. Never use the lawyer that is recommended by the agent you are buying through - find your own bi-lingual one. 2. Ask the owner directly what price they are asking for the property - the agent won't want you to speak directly to the owner but insist or go back without the agent. 3. Ask the agent how much commission they are earning from the deal. 4. Check to see if the property appears on other websites/agents and what price is being asked.

I am sure there are people on this forum who bought properties in Spain and paid way over the top without realising it and the agent pocketed a nice tidy cash sum while pretending to be the buyers 'best buddy'.

I think that you are living in the past when there was good commission on the selling of property.

Tthose days have gone and thank goodness, now the average is about 5k for what can take a long time to sell, plenty of time showing people round the property, advertising, overheads and even shareing with other agents who assist in selling the property.

So, if you have a property on your books for 6 months, which is not unusual, then you have have 4 or 5 viewings at 1 hour per visit and all the advertising and you pay, then you are not left with much. It is all in the agents interest to sell quickly so he makes more money due to less overheads, the delay in selling in many instances are the inflated prices people still want because they overpaid when they bought the property.

The market now is for low cost property under 70k and it will sell at a reasonable speed. With the increase in the pound, then the market will only improve. Many of the add high commission agents have gone and most of the big boys have gone, you are now mostly left with those who provide a reasonable service and sell realistically priced property.