Hi All. There is going to be a meeting at the bar where the quiz is held on Sunday 11th Oct  7pm to discuse the problems we have on Sierra Golf. This will go on no longer than 8.30pm to give Ray time to get ready for the quiz.

We have been informed by Yanka of Sierra legal services that we need to form a residents association and will need 3 members to run this so if you are interested you can put your name forward.

There is a charge of arround €500 to set this up with the town hall so if everyone could dig deep for a few euros contribution Yanka has very kindy said she will take all nessecary paperwork and money to the town hall free of charge.

The reasent floods was a worry if someone was seriosly ill emergency services would have been unable to get through.

Thankyou hope to see you all there.

Hi Jacky,

It might be worth posting an agenda for the meeting (including start and finish times) to give people an idea of what is going to be discussed:

Another suggestion is why not ask people what they think should be on the agenda and who should manage it. That way you would get some form of indication of the electronic interest at least. This would obviously form the basis of the agenda if there are any responses between now and Sunday.

A few food for thoughts are:

• What happens if the electric is cut off for site/individual properties
• What happens if the water is cut off for site/individual properties
• Further developments form Massa
• Massa's social responsibility for not just providing services on site but ensuring they are run effectively and managed
• Social needs to be on site - farmacia, doctor, dentist, carers, etc
• Control of supplied services on site to ensure they are compliant
• Strategic plan to promote Massa development (retain property values) in alliance with Massa
• The relationship between developer, local authority and progress on site
• etc, etc,

Will there be any crisps and nuts on Sunday?

Hi Paul. Sorry forgot to put time in was in hurry i have amended it now.

I am not running this i was just asked to put it on here for people to see If you want to by allmeans do so you have got my vote.

I suppose you could bring your own crisps & nuts as the bar probebly won't have any. Ha ha.

Jackie

Would be very happt to contribute my part towards this, just sorry I am missing the meeting.

Regards

JAson CAmpbell

M13 - 03

I would be interested in turning up as i am keen to see a united Community to find out whats happening with our investment.

Gwyn x

Hi All,

Count us in. Please keep us informed as we are non resident but will contribute as necessary.

Regards,

Carol & Rick Shropshall  M13

Hello to all fellow property owners on SG. Having a Residents association would seem a good idea. and there would need to be discussions as to how to proceed, but the phrasing of some of the postings to this thread gives the impression that it is for the benefit of  present residents and not for those who are not permanently at SG, if this is not the case there will have to be an election for the Three representatives and you will need to discuss how we can all take part in that election .  Also as the plan is for a SG residents association what steps have been taken to include the Spanish and other nationalities at SG or will there be several Associations !  Can Yanka (SG services) confirm whether or not only One Association can be registered at the Town hall, if only one then I might suggest that one of the three could be a Spanish national,this would give the association more bite . By including all, the 500 euros mentioned should be no problem. I look forward to reading further comments with interest  Regards to all Peter Edwards

Hi Peter & Pam.

Don't worry this will be for all residents people with holiday homes and people who rent after all it will affect all of us.

Sunday is mainly to see what people think about starting one so still very early stages.

Yes you are correct a spanish person or someone who speaks very good spanish would be an advantage on the commitee if this gets up and running. It will take a long time for this to happen.

Jackie

 I am told that Spanish law requires that you have to form a community of owners, a communidad, with a management committee and administrator when the area is fully handed over including the issue of the COH. It also lays down,I believe, how the committee is made up and it's function.

Hi all

just be very careful what you are getting into, as under Spanish law a Residential site like ours does not , I repeat NOT need any committee to run it. This I am afraid, is for the little hitlers on site to get some form of control so they can become BIG ego's.

With a gated community it is law to have a committee, with an urbanisation it is not necessary but allowed, Residential not needed so I ask you to put this idea in the skip where it belongs. Cause if you vote for it you will rue the day that you did

Brian

We do not pretend to have any knowledge of the law on this subject,only that we are aware that there are circumstances in which a "residents association" (or whatever the correct title is) is a requirement - as seems to be the case for example at El Trampolins. Hopefully SG does not need one in the eyes of the law.

When we were on site recently Yanka mentioned the need to put pressure on the Town Hall to ensure there is always safe access to the site. This is sensible  and we wou;d be only too happy to contribute to the cost of doing so.

However we would be extremely wary of supporting any residents association that sees it's role as a pressure group for dealing  with grievances with MASA., as may have been suggested.  Dealing with problems professionally is one thing, but using a residents association as a platform for sounding off through any media available in a way that brings SG a bad name in the he eyes of future buyers, is another. A positive future of this development lies in promoting it as a place to buy not in "airing dirty washing" in public.  You have only to read the minutes of the Camposol residents association, or whatever they call themselves,  to understand how Camposol may have got a bad name in the eyes of many.

I think a residents association (or community of owners) is a legal requirement for any urbanisations which have common or shared areas. This would be for example shared gardens, green areas, childrens play areas, communal pool etc. Each property has to pay a share of the cost of the upkeep of there areas. Watering, weeding etc. This does not include the golf course.

A committee has to be elected who amoungst other things will agree a budget for all the works. Each property must then pay a share towards the costs. Usually, the payment is based on plot/build size.

On most new urbanisations constructed in the Murcia region, the Town Hall does not fully adopt the site (as it would have done in the past) and the residents are also responsible for paying for the upkeep of the site as a whole. This would include, provision of waste bins and cost of removal of refuse. Also, the rsidents share the cost of provision and maintenance of street lights, street cleaning, weeding, etc. It may also include treatment of sewage.

You need to find out if the Town Hall has 'adopted' your site fully, or partially and clarify what they are resonsible for, and what the residents are responsible for.

We have a property on El Trampolin (which is not a gated community) which I think was constructed at a similar time to SG. In our case, the Town Hall have not adopted our site and we are going to have to pay towards the costs detailed above. This is not what we were told when we bought our property back in October 2004, but then a lot of things we were told have not been true.

This message was last edited by jogary on 08/10/2009.

This is is getting very interesting .It would appear that we do not legally require a residents association ! therefore we must  ask the question what real benefits it would bring. Sierra Golf is indeed a Residential development and is fully legal with the majority holding Habitation certificates unlike El Trampoline which I belive is a resort development . We have Street Lighting and pay our utility bills individually .When the development is completed to the local authorities satisfaction I understand we will then have our waste bins, also the communal areas will be landscaped by them . On the subject of power cuts those on site last summer will remember a cut in electricty  which was delt with promptly and courteously by Ebadrola within 2 hours, as to the comment regarding safe access, there is the start of a new access road linking up with the roundabout before La Tercia which should take care of this,the last thing we should consider is contributing to the cost of this as it is patently already budgeted for by Masa.  I think most of this movement towards an association comes from the frustration we all feel at the speed in which things are happening, but this is Spain, we know life goes on at a slower pace. Perhaps we should invite Masa to a meeting of all interested parties to bring us up to date on the future progress of Sierra Golf, before further discussing the validity and benefits of forming an association. regards  to all Peter Edwards    

We live on El Trampolin and can tell you it is a residential development the same as SG. It is not a 'resort'. In fact, we don't have any golf facilities which makes it even more residential. We have our habitation certificate and pay our own utility bills direct to the utility companies.

I am sure that you will have to form a community of owners and pay for the upkeep of your communal areas. I was only trying to offer some advice.

Hi. I know this will be music to some people's ears.

Due to misinformation the meeting on Sunday has been cancelled.

I stand back in amazement at some of the comments on here and how the thread has got distorted and highjacked and the dictionaries and law books have strated waving in the air. One person had the cheek to approach me with a LAW BOOK in his hand because he thought I had something to do with starting it saying you've opened a can of worms here. Toss**.

It was my understanding that the meeting was to see if their was any mileage in a people getting together to help each other out in times of need and the  Massa thing was tagged onto it by somebody.

This was born out of the 'recent' floods which did actually strand people on site including some visitors who had arrived, got on site, floods came down and they couldn't get off to get water, food or supplies for 2 days. The electric was going on and off all the time over the days not hours and many houses leaked and under builds flooded and the bottom 2 roads on site where unpassable with water rising nearly to the level of the car roof parked there.

I am personally aware of people who had no food, water and even the bars had no beer.

What did come to light was the speed at which the good samaritans did litterally jump into action in severe conditions to help people who where in need of it. and also protecting unoccupied properties which were flooded up to the garden wall hieght.

I have made no assumptions of what the meeting would have been about but if i had i'm sure it would have been in the interests of residents, none residents, all nationalities and would have focused on the right things.

Some of the comments were about having emergency supplies in case they were needed, trying to organise a temporary micro shop in the pool bar had it have been open, organising a regular site visit of a doctor or health visitor, a group of people with the right skills as a rescue team if they were needed, and a few other things.

This in my eyes would make these people who were caring about the community "Little Angels" and not "Little Hitlers" and I would have given 110% support to it if it made things better for the people living on site, people who semi live on site and visitors.

Working with Massa and not against them would have also created a united front as it would ultimately have promoted the site as a better place to live or visit.

Maybe it should have been started as the Silent Angels group and all the politics left to the dictionary/law book waving people who want to voice their ability to string words together.

I just hope for 2 things:

That the people who initially started discussing this don't get put off by it as a United Community is beneficial if structured right and for the right reasons

That there isn't a similar threat of disaster where somebody is in need of help

In answer to popins this all started because someone posted about forming a residents association.  As regards to the flooding you could get off the site approximately an hour and an hour and a half after the rain had stopped because we drove out in the evening.  As regards to electric, although there were power cuts, but the longest that it lasted was no more than 30 to 45 minutes; this is the responsibility of Iberdrola. As regards to underbuilds being flooded, that is because some of the outside walls have been left with big holes under the soil surface and also where the garden level is too high and more or less level with the windows to the underbuilds.  As to the bottom two roads on site, the water level was not more than one foot deep, not to the car roofs, repeat not. There are photographs to prove this.  As regards the bar, we have been in there many times when they have had no beer and this was not caused by the amount of water. Are you aware that a new road is being built to bypass the ramblas which floods in heavy rain.  I am sure that Masa must have budgeted for this.  As regards to the pool bar, are you aware that this bar is only seasonal and is closed for the winter and would therefore be impossible to have a micro shop there. More importantly, we need to ensure that the emergency services know where Sierra Golf is and also some form of road signs.  It also advisable not to call any meetings over the internet. This is done by printing leaflets in spanish and english and distributed to all properties, except the empty ones.  Are you also aware that Masa are installing four new drains in the bottom two roads on site, but it is debatable whether this will cure the problem as when we get the rains, one of the bottom roads is a running river of yellow sand which washes off the green area and the social areas which blocks the drains and the water drains off very slowly.

Hi i am one of the people who has been flooded. we have been flooded 3 times and i dont know the way to deal with it .we had it all tiled because the ground was all unlevel and thought we had sorted this out .this time i had 6 foot of water in my underbuild how am i supposed to deal with that when i am in england it is only because dennis who looks after my property while i am away helped to lessen the destructiopn that has been caused. i for one do not want to come back to sierra golf it has caused me so much misery and so much money. you cant get anywhere with masa i tried to talk to be polite but they just shouted me down and blamed me for everything that went wrong and i would have liked to have had someone to speak up for me it mighjt have helped a bit. now i just want to get rid of it i dont have the same happy feelings i had before because every time it rains am i getting flooded

regards Janacky