UK LEAVING THE EU

What has seat belts got to do with UK leaving EU.

I voted for the EEC in 1957. All three parties campaigned in favour. Government and EEC money was spent on persuading us. We were hoodwinked. Harold Wilson held sham negotiations gaining us nothing. Do not let David Cameron do the same.

Before joining the EU (EEC) Britain had a positive ballance of trade with Europe. Since joining it has been negative. As well as the negative balance of trade we pay heavily for belonging. Release from restrictive laws, ability to import cheap food from the rest of the world, continued freedom for the city, control of our borders and not having to pay for belonging would all have a positive affect on GB.

Brits started living on the costas before Spain joined the EU. Spain swould be a big looser if they left. I can't see any reason to worry if the UK left the EU.

Frequently a racist is someone who disagrees with PC views. Personally I treat everyone the same and am governed by their attitude to me. Since the docks strike in 1958 and the realisation that we could ony feed 26M of the then 52M population without imports I have always been against mass immigration to the UK, although I welcomed the Ugandan Asians who were genuinely running for their lives.

Some studies claim that the UK's food bill would drop by a third if they left the Union. So would the welfare bill.

 tteedd
I voted for the EEC in 1957.

Wikipedia.org

It was in 1975 (I realise the 1957 was just a typo) but  we did not vote for what we have now, but for a free trade agreement.  The United Kingdom referendum of 1975 was a post-legislative referendum held on 5 June 1975 in the United Kingdom to gauge support for the country's continued membership of the European Economic Community (EEC), often known as the Common Market at the time, which it had entered in 1973 under the Conservative government of Edward Heath. Labour's manifesto for the October 1974 general election promised that the people would decide "through the ballot box"^[1] whether to remain in the EEC. The electorate expressed significant support for EEC membership, with 67% in favour on a 65% turnout. This was the first referendum that was held throughout the entire United Kingdom; previously, other referendums had been arranged only in Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, Greater London and individual towns. It remained the only UK-wide referendum until the United Kingdom Alternative Vote referendum, 2011.

Thanks Johnzx

1975. Yes it was a typo. I think that although most were persuaded by the supposed trade advantages, having lived in Belgium, I always understood that there was a push towards European integration.

The politicians told us that the EEC would provide a market for our manufactured goods and cheap food. What we got was exactly the opposite, the final destruction of much of our manufacturing base and expensive food. They also told us the British law and the right of innocence until proven guilty could never be superseded by European law. They told us nothing about the decimation of our fisheries.

I see Bobaol spouts the Lib Dem nonsense that jobs involved in the European market will be lost if we leave. Why should they? We will not cease trading and many new opportunities will present themselves in the rest of the world when we leave the EU straightjacket. The serious analysis in papers I read certainly does not say that we will loose jobs. I suppose it depends what papers you read. When we joined unemployment went up but I'm sure if I said this was due to the EEC someone would demur. Sooner or later we have to start competing with China and the far east or we will swap places and become the third world. We will not do this in the EU. I do not beleive that reform of the EU is possible so the only option is to leave.

If their's any doubt about the why's and wherefor's of being in the EU you could have done worse then to watch the 30 minuet TV programme last night about, should we leave or should we stay, missed some of it but the point on leaving was made for sure.

The reporters went to a small start up cottage type business run by a housewife who wanted to, as said start up her own business, making jams that tasted better due to the lack of to much sugar in them, the EU stepped in and told her she cant do this because her jams had only 52% sugar, to be called jam it had to have at least 60%.

On the UK news this morning the EU has said it is going to tax sugary drinks because of the amount of excess sugar in them.

It has been said that if the UK leaves then all hell will break out due to massive money loss's, and unemployment, but as the Lady told it "We put in 8.5 Billion £££'s every year so stopping this should well compensate for any loss's" 

As I said I did miss some of it, maybe I got the wrong end of it.

As I have said many times it is not departure by any country that is needed.

What is needed is individual countries to stop being so selfish and concentrate on the needs of the majority.

Too much time is wasted by EU politicians on silly issues such as the jam case mentioned by baz1946 and making the rich richer rather than the needs of the majority.

Again as I have said before the 4 state union of the UK (or the unions in many other countries including Spain, Italy Netherlands etc.) should be a model that the EU should look to.

We are better together and look after each other is the only way forward. 3 steps forward and 2 steps back is still moving forward

We need the monies paid by individual countries to be used for a common pot to provide the following across the EU

1. A common health care system so ALL citizens have the same health care wherever they choose to live
2. A common free education system for all up to university level for ALL citizens again no matter where they choose to live
3. A common welfare state that looks after those in need and a clamp down on scroungers
4. A common housing programme providing affordable homes and get people off the streets
5. A common pension system to provide for ALL in their retirement
6. A common job creation programme
7. A common police and a laws to protect
8. A common defence policy and an armed forces of EU

If this means a common tax system, common banking and a common budget for health, education, welfare, pensions, jobs and housing then so be it.

I would have no problem being governed by an elected EU government and no problem with the nationality of the head of the EU state as long as they are doing the job FOR the benefit of ALL and not just the few

We have to STOP being so selfish about our own economy and childish nationalistic pride – if we don’t then we will end up with devolution down to cities or even small towns run and owned by a few unelected rich people which would be major step backwards – have we learnt nothing from our past?????

We have to STOP thinking about the profits of the rich and focus on the needs of the people

Ask yourself what you really want for you and your family and then guess what a similar family in Rome, Athens, Antwerp, Amsterdam, Madrid or any family within the EU or one of your friends and I am sure it will be more or less the same – then ask why are we ALL not getting this
 

'I would have no problem with and elected European Government'

That’s what I wanted in 1975 but not with its finger in every pie. It would be better responsible for defence, foreign affairs and a supreme court. We are too different to go further; everything else could stay with the national governments. There would be a clear division of responsibilities, nationally the laws would suit each individual nation and the Commission would not be needed.

But it is not going to happen; we are going to continue to be governed by an un-unelected commission that tries to micro-manage everything and makes us totally inefficient. We get beaurocrats with little understanding of the effects or their ideas making rules for the whole community. It does not work, costs a fortune (directly and indirectly) and is un-democratic.

As it is going we are likely to end up as a quaint offshore island of a poor, ineffective, backward, undemocratic European power.

We are not going to get to a sensible democratic end point so we would be better governed, richer and freer out.

Tadd1966.

I'd rather celebrate diversity and allow each state to maintain their own identlty with their own reigional cultural differences with locally made decisions bu democratically elected politicians. 

Not the situation you describe which is what has caused wars and continues to do so.

Perhaps you should read Animal Farm and other works by George Orwell.

Economic co-operation with the EU member states, not Political domination.

Why is it that the PC brigade always cite Spain as the country in Europe as having the largest British Ex-Patriate population as the justification for the UK to accept migrant workers from the rest of the EU? They ignore the fact that the majority of Brits are retired and invest significant amounts of money in Spain and are not a burden, nor are they sending money out of Spain to their home country.

Earlier in the year I had an interesting conversation with a waitress in a restaurant at the Westfield centre in West London. She was from Murcia and could not find work at home. The Eurozone crisis is a failed experiment and each country needs to adjust it's exchange rates to suit it's own economic situation. The euro exchange rate is improving for those of us who want to spend money in Spain, but the Eurozone economy is still in trouble and cannot survive for ever on borrowing or throwing good money after bad. E.G. Corvera Airport. Cut to a conversation with a German saying what has the EU got out of throwing so much money at Greece to keep it in the EU.

See Nigel Ferages rants on youtube about how the EU is run. 

Tadd1966.

I'd rather celebrate diversity and allow each state to maintain their own identlty with their own reigional cultural differences with locally made decisions bu democratically elected politicians. 

Not the situation you describe which is what has caused wars and continues to do so.

Perhaps you should read Animal Farm and other works by George Orwell.

Economic co-operation with the EU member states, not Political domination.

Why is it that the PC brigade always cite Spain as the country in Europe as having the largest British Ex-Patriate population as the justification for the UK to accept migrant workers from the rest of the EU? They ignore the fact that the majority of Brits are retired and invest significant amounts of money in Spain and are not a burden, nor are they sending money out of Spain to their home country.

Earlier in the year I had an interesting conversation with a waitress in a restaurant at the Westfield centre in West London. She was from Murcia and could not find work at home. The Eurozone crisis is a failed experiment and each country needs to adjust it's exchange rates to suit it's own economic situation. The euro exchange rate is improving for those of us who want to spend money in Spain, but the Eurozone economy is still in trouble and cannot survive for ever on borrowing or throwing good money after bad. E.G. Corvera Airport. Cut to a conversation with a German saying what has the EU got out of throwing so much money at Greece to keep it in the EU.

See Nigel Ferages rants on youtube about how the EU is run. 

conchi Some studies claim that the UK's food bill would drop by a third if they left the Union. So would the welfare bill
 

Any links to those studies? If so, how come food bills in the uS, Australia and other countries are more than uK? AFAIK they aren't in the EU. And what about our beef and lamb exports? Only the EU will take them as the EU forced countries like France to buy it. The US, Canada, New Zealand, Australia and so on ban it because of scrapie and BSE. Cut out the few billion our exports to Europe are and we would have no markets at all.

The UK welfare bill, including pensions, come to around 300 billion pounds a year. Are you really saying the 2 million EU citizens in UK take a third of that? 100 billion between 2 million is over 50 grand a year for every one of those citizens. Load of tosh especially as EU citizens are far less likely to claim anything at all.

Stupid statements like those above do nothing to build your case.

And that massive 8.3 billion we pay the EU could be used on what? It's about the same as we spend on foreign aid. It's about 2 and half weeks worth of spending on the NHS. It's less than 1% of the UK GDP. Yes, it sounds like a lot of money but, in the great scheme of things, is hardly anything.

Problem is in these discussions is that people get really het up and start attacking anyone with a different viewpoint. I mentioned "depending on which paper your read" and tteedd (another name, same poster) automatically calls it spouting Lib Dem nonsense.

Sorry, debating is good, making things up and attacking other viewpoints is not.

Aren't the food bills in the US and Aus higher then ours due to the higher living wage and pay, normally goods and services are based on the ability to pay and income for any set area, hence why a house up North is a whole lot cheaper then almost the same down South? Same as Spain is.

The many within the EU that say the EU is working are the many who work in the EU, It's not working, it's been proved it's not working, one size fits all cant, and wont ever work.

The EU likes to think it's one big open for business, fact is if any business ran like the EU it would have lasted months, not years, pretty much like a local council does, waste money wholesale because it's coming in all the time, genuine business don't run like that.

Not one person knows what will happen if the UK left, but every person knows what it's been like to be in it.

Aren't the food bills in the US and Aus higher then ours

I spent 5 months in 1967 touring USA in a ‘Winniebago RV’ type motor home. I think everything was cheaper than in UK, except tipping at 15 to 20%.  Diesel was around 1 US dollar a US gallon (4 litres)

Australia did not have a recession like Europe. I don't know much about their food bills but I do know a lot about living in the USA and almost everything is cheaper. They are not crippled with high taxes like our VAT which averages 20%. Most states only have a tax of about 6%.

I repeat, UK buys a lot more from the EU than we sell to them. 

Out of date but there is lots more around the web.  Hannan writes some good articles about the EU stupidity.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/4546246/Want_to_cut_food_bills_Withdraw_from_the_CAP/

johnzx, 1967 you would have been getting over 3 US dollars for your pound, no wonder everything was cheaper. I was there just last year and I can assure you prices are very much higher than back in 1967 even though petrol is still cheaper at around 65p a litre. That, however, has nothing to do with us being in the EU. Back in 1967 when your petrol was so cheap in the USA, it was still three times as much in UK and we weren't even in the EU then. (I think your memory must be playing you tricks, petrol in US 1967 was more like 35 cents a gallon whilst UK was 6/8d or 3 gallons for a pound.).

Still, I think the comment on nobody knows what the outcome of leaving would be is correct so a lot of it is pure guesswork. I'm not in favour of the Norway/Switzerland type model as that would still make the UK dependent on EU rules but without a vote on anything.

I agree, there is a lot about the EU that needs changing. CAP does us no favours, for example.

Until we get the full facts on how it will affect us expats with regards to living in Spain then I will keep an open mind. (this might be a selfish statement but I would really like to know how it would affect me).

Should have read 1997. 

It was around 1.60 US$ to £

Until we get the full facts on how it will affect us expats with regards to living in Spain then I will keep an open mind. (this might be a selfish statement but I would really like to know how it would affect me).

Selfish maybe, but a view many of us share - it could have massive implications if the Spanish got shirty, but would they? the brits spend a lot of money here and there are plenty of Spanish in the UK so maybe a new reciprocal agreement.

I don't know but if we did leave the EU I don't believe anything would change regarding to still buy and live in Spain, after all the Russians get away with it now, and all the other none EU nationalities, and as you said the amount of money the Brits, and others spend, Spain "Should" look twice at that.

My guess is that a lot of huffing and puffing would go on for a while but like many things it would settle down sooner then expected.

I for one think that due to all the rubbish that comes out of the EU, and being in it, which wont change, we should leave, I honestly believe all the members are very dissatisfied with the whole issue of the EU and how bad it has become, but all are waiting for someone to make the first move.

Lots of Brits lived and worked on the Costas before Spain joined the EU. Spain has already changed the requirements for registering to live there which are much the same as before. I don't think it would make any difference.

i think that Spain would be better out of the Euro currency. I also read yesterday that Spain is complaining about Morocco having unfair competition by selling their tomatoes cheaper to Northern countries as they do not have to pay EU taxes etc. There is certainly more fruit and veg around in the  UK from non-euro countries.