SPANISH POLICE BRUTALITY

I have been the victim of police abuse in UK and have little if any respect for them.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/7888301.stm

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/apr/21/police-protest-id-numbers

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/5251453/Nearly-half-of-police-officers-do-not-wear-shoulder-identification-on-front-line-duty.html

This confirms my earlier stated fears. Thank you for posting. The police are clearly out of control. I think it may already be too late; that the police are more to be feared than is the criminal community. The police force - I refuse to call it a service - sees itself primarily as frontline defence of government.

Mutually supportive this would separate governance from the electorate and allow free rein to the police. As I have before warned, the EU has slipped into a similar state to that of the pre-1989 Soviet Union. The similarities are truly alarming. It will not be long before people expressing views such as I and some others are ‘taking in for questioning’.

Beware of what Mike writes. 

He is an articulate professional writer, whose messages are designed to convince people, who may not have the experience or are not open minded, that they are something which they are not.  They are not open minded fair criticism but biased to promote his agenda (whatever that may be) just as political leaders hope to sway the minds of the populace that things maybe worst, or better, than they in fact are. 

Despite what he has said to the contrary, he is deliberately, and skillfully, mixing the behavior of many different police forces and services, highlighting the worst, maybe very isolated incidents, and presenting them to appear that what he says about one, applies to them all.  That is untrue and disingenuous.

His is propaganda, designed to mislead.

I can speak with personal experience of just the UK and in particular the Met Police. 

In the UK all complaints against police are overseen by the Independent Police Complaints Commission, who I can assure all do not lean towards assisting dishonest, corrupt or unsuitable police officers to avoid prosecution  and or dismissal.

 QUOTE There are a number of types of incidents that the police, or other agencies the IPCC oversees complaints for, must mandatorily refer to the Commission. These include deaths in police custody, shootings and fatal traffic incidents as well as allegations that an officer or member of police staff has committed a serious criminal offence.  As an example, the shooting of the two men who killed Lee Rigby, was automatically investigated by the IPCC to find if the officer were in any way at fault.

And of course all pollice actions in the UK are fair game for the press. Some of whom may lean towards the police and others who do not.

If the same rules were applied to almost any other group of worker, the bodies which represent them and protect their interests would be complaining about the unfairness of the system to their member. Nevertheless probably almost 100% of officer are pleased that they are subjected to these stringent rules, which ensures that high professional standards are maintained and, hopefully by those rules existing, the public will rightfully have confidence in ‘their police service.’

Mike:   Quote The police are clearly out of control. I think it may already be too late; that the police are more to be feared than is the criminal community. 

My opinion on this is:-  Absolute bunkum 

John, you are going way off agenda. My OP concerned itself with Spanish and Ukrainian police tactics and response, not UK. Along the line it morphed into a debate about British policing, its strategies and its failings.

I did not open that theme; I simply commented on it as others have done. I personally think that Poppyseed made the most convincing contribution. She answered your defensive position most capably but you choose to ignore it.

John, with respect, might I make a suggestion. As you are passionate about the UK police career you chose why not open a separate debate on British policing.  Leave me to comment on the broader European spectrum relating to policing as was my original intention.  I promise that if you do so I will contribute by commenting on my very happy recollections of when I numbered many police officers in my circle of friends and when the police were far better respected that they are today.

Actually Mike Walsh hasn't written anything that can't be readily found by looking on the internet, in the media, on the TV news,  so you might just as well be aware of what is spoken and written in these as well.

He is not mixing all police forces into one, anyone can see that police forces all over the world are now getting heavy handed on many occasions, and all in the hope the individual cop can get away with doing it.

I defend business people when folk tell me "so and so charged me enough for that" I wouldn't expect any different from any cop when defending his own, but to carry on doing so when the evidence is so overwhelming to see is just plain delusion on their part.

One of the coppers that bashed a protester, caught doing this on camera with no ID showing, refused unreservedly to give his ID number, and name over, only when his Sgt intervened did he,  sure thats only one that the news caught and spoke about, can anyone believe this one was the only one doing this?

The shooting of the two that killed Lee Rigby had to have an investigation because firearms were discharged by police officers, as any firearm discharged by police,  any death in police custody has to be investigated because you cant just shove that one under the carpet, so you cant make this out to be that  our police investigate all complaints.

I still think our cops are the best in the world, it's the bad apples that give them all a bad name, and when you get them bad apples you got trouble in buckets loads.

Baz.     

                   I am reluctant to extend this, but as you clearly mean me when you mention ‘defending the police’ I wish make it clear that,  I have only referred to what has been reported and facts, like pathologists reports.  I have not given personal opinions on how the police in any country operate, nor how any particular police officers have acted.

I never have sought to defend police when they have acted contrary to the law in the country where they function; even to the contrary, I have mentioned that I have been `part of the mechanism’ when wrong doers have been brought to justice.

So can you now drop this personal attack ?

                   I am reluctant to extend this, but as you clearly mean me when you mention ‘defending the police’ I wish make it clear that,  I have only referred to what has been reported and facts, like pathologists reports.  I have not given personal opinions on how the police in any country operate, nor how any particular police officers have acted.

I never have sought to defend police when they have acted contrary to the law in the country where they function; even to the contrary, I have mentioned that I have been `part of the mechanism’ when wrong doers have been brought to justice.

So can you now drop this personal attack ?

I think you should read your posts through again if you believe you are not defending the police, or is it a case of what you say is okay, what others say is wrong?

Don't think that I am attacking you personally I rarely ever give anyone that privilege, but as it also looks like you're the only ex-police officer on here that answers these posts then it might seem to you that its personal,  more self control over how easy you get offended would be a start.

I have finished with this now.

Why  is M W stilll living here in Spain as he clearly dislikes everything about the country

To john zx

I am unsure as to where you get your comments from. You say:

(In the UK one cannot be prosecuted for being rude to, or insulting, a police officer and it would be unusual for a person, say pushing a police officer whilst arguing or being arrested by him/her, to be charged with an additional offence.)

Rest assured that you can be prosecuted for all of the above...In relation to the rude and/or insulting a Police Office, you have section 5 Public Order Act 1986, (Disorderly Conduct). Pushing a Police officer, you have Section 4 POA 1986, (Threatening Behaviour) You also have Resisting Arrest, Common Assault and Obstructing a Police Officer in the Lawful Execution of his/Her Duty.

The UK Police are not soft, they are just controlled by a rediculous Government.

Regards

Steve

Recently retired (Police officer for over 20years)

Private reply sent to Steve.

But just to clarify this.

Of course there is always a law in the UK which could be used in circumstances for which it was not intended.  Nevertheless, in the UK , the police (unless they have gone mad since I retired) would never charge anyone,  as the last post seems to suggest, using completely inappropriate Public Order Law

Thus what I said does apply:-  

“In the UK one cannot would not be prosecuted for being rude to, or insulting, a police officer and it would be unusual for a person, say pushing a police officer whilst arguing or being arrested by him/her, to be charged with an additional offence”

That is unlike in Spain where one is very likely to be arrested and charged, which was the point I was hoping to make clear. 

This message was last edited by johnzx on 01/03/2014.

** EDITED - Against forum rules **