Will Spain copy Cyprus and rob our savings?

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24 Mar 2013 5:24 PM by Bazil Star rating. 20 posts Send private message

I will put no more after this but could not resist:

An elderly man sitting on a park bench was accosted by a snotty up himself your guy who plonked himself down next to him.

I bet when you were my age you had a very sad and shallow life. You had nothing of what we had today

You had no computers, no mobile phones, no digital cameras, no rockets to travel to the moon, no colour tv and not even proper comfortable cars with air conditionig and sat nav to speed you around.

No you are right we had none of those things.

 So, you arogant little sh-t,we went out and invented them so morons like you would not have to. 

Regards

 





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25 Mar 2013 4:41 PM by JWhite Star rating. 124 posts Send private message

Came across this and was pretty shocked and have to say how it all makes sense of what is going on - unfortunately, but does make interesting reading :

 

http://synonblog.dailymail.co.uk/2013/03/the-new-soviet-union-cyprus-shows-how-the-eu-destroys-democracy.html





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25 Mar 2013 6:14 PM by normansands Star rating in Kent. 1281 posts Send private message

Thank you,

perhaps this should be posted in full on the forum.

Regards

Norman



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25 Mar 2013 6:22 PM by JWhite Star rating. 124 posts Send private message

I will leave that to the moderators to decide, I tried to post the link on The Sun forum but just the link was deleted so not sure if it was OK here to post it in full.    What I can say is that it scared the hell out of me !





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25 Mar 2013 6:46 PM by normansands Star rating in Kent. 1281 posts Send private message

Hello JW,

since losing my savings to the fraud which can be Spain's property scenario, I have taken some interest in finance matters and am now inundated with advice mostly american seeking membership fees.

however there is heavy consensus on the criminality of bankers.......too big to fail.....too big a criminal to jail .....suggesting that their politicians including the president are hog tied, even if they were inclined to fight the corruption.

I sometimes wonder whether we will survive long enough for Iran to blow us to smithereens.

But even so it was indeed frightening and should be read by all.

Regards

Norman


 


This message was last edited by normansands on 25/03/2013.

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25 Mar 2013 7:03 PM by JWhite Star rating. 124 posts Send private message

For those that are interested, I will post this article which must be of interest to anyone worried about what happened in Cyprus :

 

The New Soviet Union: Cyprus shows how the EU destroys democracy

Here is my Saturday Essay in the Irish Daily Mail. It is a lengthy piece, but then in the countries caught in the eurozone, interest in what is happening in Cyprus is intense. British readers can be happy they are not trapped in the single currency. But they are still trapped in the EU...which is why they may want to read on.

Soviet state emblem wikiBefore I can explain what this Cyprus crisis means to Ireland, I have to dust off some Soviet-era vocabulary: nothing else will do.

First, nomenklatura. This was the name given to the self-propagating Communist Party elite who controlled Soviet government, industry, finance and most of the caviar.

Next, apparatchiks. These were the unquestioning loyal subordinates of a Communist apparat or administrative system.

As for other words from the USSR era – transnational, class betrayal and colonialism – you already know those, so now I can get started and explain what Ireland must learn from what the European Union nomenklatura did to Cyprus and its president in the early hours of March 16th.

Picture the scene. We can do that because three reporters from the Wall Street Journal, one in Brussels, the others in Berlin and Nicosia, have managed to piece together an hour by hour account of events leading up to the announcement that eurozone finance ministers would force the Cypriot government to confiscate €5.8bn from bank deposits.

What has happened since that night remain other issues: the rush to Moscow by the Cypriot finance minister desperate for a loan, the attempts by Cypriots to find a Plan B, the possibility of Cyprus leaving the euro.

But above all, there is what happened over the night of the 15th on the sealed-off upper    floors of the European Council building. It was the best illustration yet of why a former senior European Commission economist now refers to the EU as the New Soviet Union: the treatment of the President of Cyprus that night showed just how the power over the member states has shifted away from democratic control and into the hands of the unelected elite of a transnational European empire. And what happened to the Cypriot president that night could happen to any Taoiseach.

Berlin propaganda

So, as I say, picture the scene. That night there were ten hours of negotiations trying to put together a deal that would keep the banks in Cyprus solvent. What the Cypriot banks needed was €17.5bn. But the Germans were unwilling to allow such a bail-out. Already the Berlin propaganda machine had been pumping out stories that the Cypriot banks were stuffed with Russian hot money, and decent Germans were not going to protect the deposits of Russian oligarchs.

Which was racial stereotyping by the Germans. There plenty of legit Russian businessmen in Euro burning dmEurope. A lot of such businessmen may have shifted their money into Cyprus to get it away from banks controlled by Putin and Medvedev. Such businessmen clearly thought that EU banking played straight. Now they know different. But that is another story with other implications for how investors from outside the EU will now regard the safety of eurozone banks, including Irish banks.

It also has implications for anyone in the EU who thought that the EU law forcing all member states to guarantee bank deposits up to €100,000 meant something.

This week some of us sat in the press room at the European Commission and listened to Olli Rehn’s apparatchiks deny that confiscation of a percentage of Cypriot bank deposits under 100k was in breach of this legal guarantee. They insisted that this wasn’t confiscation, it was a tax. Since taxes are the ‘competence’ of member states, it didn’t breach the law.

The apparatchiks insisted that, anyway, this was a one-off because the case of Cyprus was ‘special.’ By last Wednesday night however, news had leaked out that the Spanish government now plans to ‘tax’ bank deposits by up to 0.2 percent. You might say that’s not much. But whether it is 0.2 percent or 20 percent doesn’t matter. The precedent of raiding bank deposits with the Troika’s blessing has been set.

Cypriot president alone

Back to the move against Cyprus. It started on the Friday evening when Jeroen Dijsselbloem, president of the eurogroup, called an emergency meeting after the European summit. According to the Journal, ‘Just after 5 p.m., finance ministers, IMF Managing Director Christine Lagarde, ECB executive board member Jorg Asmussen and the EU’s economic-affairs commissioner, Olli Rehn, filed into a meeting room on the fifth floor of the Justus Lipsius, which houses the EU’s ministerial meetings and summits.’

Now, this is significant: ‘Cyprus’s newly elected President Nicos Anastasiades stayed behind in the country’s delegation on the seventh floor.’ The democratically-elected president was not allowed in the room as the unelected Olli Rehn began with his plans for how to get €5.8bn out of Cypriot bank depositors.

Mr Rehn wanted a straight ‘haircut’ on all deposits in all banks. But then Christine Lagarde said they must gouge between 30 percent and 40 percent from all deposits over €100,000 in the two main Cypriot banks.

Congo wikiThe horrified Cypriot finance minister said this couldn’t happen. He began the first of several scrambles upstairs to where President Anastasiades was being kept in isolation. Of course he was. This is how an empire treats uncooperative colonial natives. In the 19th century, Belgian colonial gang-masters would lock Congolese wives alone in windowless sheds until their husbands harvested the right amount of rubber.

In the end, as a representative of Mr Anastasiades told the German newspaper Bild, ‘the Germans held a gun to our chest.’ It was at some time after a meeting of the inner core of the nomenklatura which began in another room at 1 a.m. that Mr Asmussen of the ECB pulled out the gun. He told Mr Anastasiades that either he agreed to the deal on bank deposits, or EU funds would be cut off to the country’s two main banks.

Just to ramp up the 3 a.m. terror, Mr Asmussen then rang Mario Draghi, president of the ECB, in front of Mr Anastasiades. The German warned Mr Draghi that the ECB might have to deal with the collapse of the Cypriot banks on Monday.

You know the rest. The eurogroup came out and announced that the Cypriot president had agreed that there would be a levy on all bank deposits.

Again, this is significant. The EU system of government operates by keeping in place the institutions of the governments over which it has taken power. The public had to be told that it was the president of Cyprus himself who had decided to seize deposits.

Power out of view

Two British historians, Christopher Booker and Richard North, identified this system in their history of the EU, The Great Deception: ‘It is central to the nature of the “project” that the parliaments, officials and judiciaries of each of the member states should all be left in place. But behind them [the project] erected a new supranational power structure which worked through these national institutions, controlling them and enlisting their active collaboration in a way that remained largely out of view.’

If you go through the statements of Monnet and other founders of the project as long ago as the 1920s, ‘the one thing above all the “project” could never be, because by definition it had never been intended to be, was in the remotest sense democratic. The whole purpose of a supranational body is to stand above the wishes of individual nations and peoples.'

It would be supranational government by technocrats, ‘unsullied by any need to resort to all the messy, unpredictable business of elections.’

‘The only useful role left to the politicians in this process was to lend it a veneer of democratic legitimacy.’

Defiance

Which is why the nomenklatura were in such a fury when the Cypriot parliament refused to cast a single vote in favour of the deal: the members of parliament were not being ‘European.’ Indeed, in a top level conference call among eurozone officials on Wednesday – notes from which were leaked to Reuters – the Cypriot parliament’s democratic defiance was denigrated as ‘emotional.’

In fact, the parliament’s defiance was magnificent. But I did not cheer. I know that in the EU, a Yes vote is forever, but a No vote is only ever temporary. The Troika apparatchiks immediately delivered the message that the parliament must keep voting until they get the right answer.

This technique is familiar to anyone who remembers the politics of the USSR: vote all you want, but there is just one possible result.

I am not the only one to see that Soviet similarity. I go back to that former senior commission economist I mentioned at the top. He is Bernard Connolly. I have quoted before from the new edition of his book, The Rotten Heart of Europe.

Mr Connolly was infamously forced out of his job in 1995 when he wrote the book questioning the prospects of monetary union. From his vantage point as one of the nomenklatura, Mr Connolly saw the truth of the ambitions of this elite. They wanted ‘to complete the elimination of sovereignty, law and political legitimacy in Europe, freeing elites – a European nomenklatura – from any residual constraints either of democratic control or law.’

To do this, they have persuaded the ‘useful idiots’ across the member states to suppress the results of referenda and to topple democratically-elected governments ‘in manoeuvres reminiscent of Stalin’s tactics in Eastern Europe after the war.’

What Mr Connolly means, first, are the results of referenda not just in Ireland, but in the Netherlands and France. In 2001, the then-president of the European Commission, Romano Prodi, and other members of the elite made a decision behind closed doors to draw up an EU constitution. They promised that it would not come into effect unless it had the unanimous consent of all member states.

Fifty ways to win

Within a single week in 2005, both the French and the Dutch voters rejected the constitution. Here is how Nigel Farage, MEP and leader of the UK Independence Party, recalled the moment in a recent interview in the Financial Times: He was drinking champagne in the Brussels press bar to celebrate the Dutch rejecting the EU constitution in a referendum when a German MEP came by and said, ‘You may have your little celebration tonight but we have 50 different ways to win.’

Indeed they have. By 2007 they had produced the Lisbon Treaty, which was the constitution in everything but the title on the front page. You know the rest: in 2008 the Irish people rejected the treaty. The nomenklatura rejected the democratic result.

In 2011 the nomenklatura pulled off two Soviet-style coups. They toppled the elected        Budapest 1956 wikigovernments of both Greece and Italy. It was Hungary 1956 without the tanks.

That year George Papandreou, then prime minister of Greece, announced he would hold a referendum on the further austerity demanded by the Troika. But the nomenklatura would not allow a democratic vote. They demanded Mr Papandreou abandon the referendum. The humiliated prime minister was forced to resign.

The Troika then manoeuvred in one of the nomenklatura, Lucas Papademos, former vice-president of the ECB, as prime minister.

The EU elite also toppled the government of Silvio Berlusconi. Following a secret telephone call – later leaked to the Press – Chancellor Merkel told President Giorgio Napolitano of Italy she was worried that Prime Minister Berlusconi wasn’t strong enough to deliver the kind of reforms in Italy that ‘Europe’ wanted. The old Communist Napolitano got the message. He destabilised the prime minister at home, while the ECB got busy rocking the market in Italian bonds. Mr Berlusconi was forced out of office, and President Napolitano parachuted in the unelected choice of the nomenklatura, again one of their own, former European Commissioner Mario Monti.

Would topple Ireland too

If you think the nomenklatura has not been willing to topple an Irish Government, remember the pressure Jean-Claude Trichet, then president of the ECB, put on Finance Minister Brian Lenihan to force him to accept a bailout against the wishes of the Irish people. The pressure was of course applied in secret, we learned about it only from letters and notes of telephone calls released last year.

Mr Trichet pushed Mr Lenihan to accept the terms being offered by the Troika, threatening that the ECB would otherwise cut all emergency funding: that would have toppled the Government.

The finance minister resisted. But he was finally pushed into the deadly deal after Patrick Honohan, governor of the Irish Central Bank, said publicly a bail-out was necessary. That statement finished Mr Lenihan.

What is important to note is the Dr Honohan, though always referred to in Ireland the governor of our central bank, is something else in the EU. He is a member of the Governing Council of the ECB: that makes him a member of the European nomenklatura.

It is now clear the nomenklatura intend they should be without any constraints of democratic control. Mr Connolly notes that they have transferred powers to ‘unelected, unaccountable and explicitly anti-democratic bodies.’ These include the eurogroup, the ECB, the bail-out funds, in particular the new European Stability Mechanism, ‘which, astonishingly, has complete legal immunity for itself and its officers.’

He notes the undemocratic powers of the IMF and the G20. Then there are the banking and supervisory bodies, and the economic government of the euro area which is meant to ensure economic ‘discipline.'

Humiliation

This ‘discipline’ is why the democratically-elected members of our Dail must suffer the humiliation of knowing that a German parliamentary committee now sees our Budget before they do: the committee, free from Irish democratic control, acts for the nomenklatura.

On their trips to Brussels, the Taoiseach and Finance Minister pose as part of this ruling elite. If they were to put Ireland first it would be a class betrayal of their colleagues in the nomenklatura. Alas the Irish people are so submissive that they allow this evil idiocy by our Government.

But the Mediterranean peoples are not submissive. Judging by the mood of the peoples of    Lenin wikiCyprus, Greece and Italy in particular, they have had all the pain they can take. The crowds are already on the streets in their thousands. Now all they need are leaders.

Which is why Cyprus gives me hope. Like that old Soviet villain Lenin, I know that worse is better.

Published by Mary Ellen of the Daily Mail.

This was of course posted in the DM on 22nd March prior to the outcome of the crisis in Cyprus.

 

 


This message was last edited by JWhite on 25/03/2013.



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25 Mar 2013 8:37 PM by Peakmark Star rating. 12 posts Send private message

 C'est la vie, lol





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26 Mar 2013 10:15 AM by eos_ian Star rating in Valencia. 506 posts Send private message

eos_ian´s avatar

JWhite  very interesting article. Thanks for posting it.



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26 Mar 2013 11:02 AM by JWhite Star rating. 124 posts Send private message

That's OK, I think it should be posted on the front page of every newspaper throughout Europe, as I have a feeling that people are still very naive about the power the EU now has and WILL have in the future now that this "one off" has been accepted by the people of Cyprus, albeit reluctantly and with anger, it has been forced on them by their own government's inability to sort out their country's financial base and if the EU is allowed to continue expanding its tentacles throughout Europe, there are no limits to what they can do and will do to protect the EUSSR.  

Let's not forget also that this so called bank "levy" has swept aside people's Human Rights to be protected by their OWN rules of the EU bank guarantee of up to £85,000, unless they have been protected and I have not read it.   Also it proves that Brussels is willing to override any of its protections of EU citizens to suit its own purpose.   In other words it cannot be trusted which is a frightening concept when you consider they could go into any other EU country and do the same.

I notice that Cyprus has still not opened its banks and will not do so until Thursday and then there is talk there will be limitations on how much money people can take out of the country (€10,000 has been mentioned), plus limits on withdrawals to stop a bank run but how many people will now leave their money there even if it means withdrawing in small amounts until they empty their bank accounts.   Basically it is looking pretty grim both for business interests and private individuals.





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26 Mar 2013 11:51 AM by mac75 Star rating in Valencia. 414 posts Send private message

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 Capital control is already in place in Cyprus, all borders, modes of transport are being controlled by customs. Any sum over 10,000 euros will be confiscated immediately according to live news report from Cyprus this morning. Cash limits of 100 euros are in place in cash machines but cash machines aren't being filled up on a regular basis so there is a frantic race everyday to find a cash machine which still has money in it. All transaction are frozen obviously as the banks are closed so salaries are not being paid and Joe Blogs is quickly running out of cash. At the moment the majority of transaction are being carried out with credit cards, whihc apparantly seem to be working without any problem for the time being.... Once this has passed and savers have had their money stolen, who in their right mind will leave the rest of their money in Cyprus, or will they maintain capital control on bank accounts impeding people from removing the rest of their money from Cyprus??? The damage has been done and it is as you say JWhite , this is EUSSR. It seems that the EU has defected from democracy.

 


This message was last edited by mac75 on 26/03/2013.

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26 Mar 2013 12:57 PM by gerryinalbany Star rating in Albany , New York, U.... 30 posts Send private message

26 Mar 2013 1:59 PM by normansands Star rating in Kent. 1281 posts Send private message

Dear All,

My very late new found interest in financial matters sees me flooded with unhappy information like..........

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So when we’re talking about financial emergencies, don’t be under any illusions. It can happen here in Britain just as it can happen anywhere – given the right conditions.

In 1976, humiliated, the UK government had to be rescued by the International Monetary Fund, with Jim Callaghan going cap-in-hand to beg for a huge bailout. Humbled, he delivered what was meant to be a wake-up call for the British financial and political system:

Jim Callaghan. (Image © Getty)

“We used to think you could spend your way out of recession and increase employment by boosting government spending… I tell you that option no longer exists. And so far as it ever did exist, it only worked on each occasion… by injecting a bigger dose of inflation into the economy, followed by a higher level of unemployment as the next step.”

These words are amongst the most important ever uttered in the history of modern British politics. Unfortunately, almost everyone has forgotten them.

For a left wing Prime Minister to admit that too much state spending is dangerous SHOULD have marked a big turning point in our history.

But of course, it didn’t – as this chart so aptly illustrates:

Source: ukpublicspending.co.uk

 

and

 

In fact, our debts tower above almost every other nation’s – here are the figures that prove it:

Source: Haver Analytics; Bank for International Settlements; national central banks; McKinsey Global Institute

That's absolutely incredible, isn't it? Yet you’ve probably never seen this fact reported in The Telegraph or on Sky News.

And the worst part is, even THAT isn’t the full story…

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

it is all very frightening............

but I really don't understand why it is not publicised?????

It seems to this simpleton that neither the euro nor the pound have the proverbial snowball's chance of surviving.............even with "blood in the streets".

Is there any error in the analysis?????

is there any encouragement?????

surely with these facts as correct the pigs will be cast off???

Help TJ

Regards

Norman

 



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26 Mar 2013 2:17 PM by JWhite Star rating. 124 posts Send private message

Very interesting.

I keep hearing people talk of a "New World Order" and always wondered what they meant.

I think now I know and it is scary, more so for my grandkids and great grandkids, what kind of a world have we left them with?





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26 Mar 2013 3:01 PM by bobaol Star rating. 2253 posts Send private message

bobaol´s avatar

 Let's not forget also that this so called bank "levy" has swept aside people's Human Rights to be protected by their OWN rules of the EU bank guarantee of up to £85,000, unless they have been protected and I have not read it.

They are protected up to €100,000 or €200,000 in joint accounts, the same as in all EU countries (£85,000 in the UK) .  It is deposits over that amount that are being hit.  Moral: if you're lucky enough to have over €100,000, split it and put it in a different bank (NOT a different account with the same bank).  That was the advice given in the UK newspapers financial pages.  





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26 Mar 2013 3:14 PM by JWhite Star rating. 124 posts Send private message

boboal -

I am glad to hear it, but in the beginning Brussels were saying they would take 6.25% off people with less than 100,000 which would have broken the EU bank guarantee until Cyprus refused to agree to it,  which to me smacks of them (the EU) changing the rules when it suits them as they would have done it if it had been agreed with the Cyprus government and does nothing to reinstate my confidence in their support of ordinary savers.   They are still in my opinion an unelected dictatorship and an invasion of democracies and sovereign states who are left unable to defend themselves.    The freedom my father and millions of others fought to defend has been swept away without a backward glance and I am only glad he is not here to see what he endured during the war to defend his country, has been taken from us with the stroke of a pen.





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26 Mar 2013 3:22 PM by normansands Star rating in Kent. 1281 posts Send private message

Hear, hear........infinite times.....hear hear!!!!!!!

Norman



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