| The Comments |
THE APPLICATION FORM
Section 1
NIE PAS/NIF ignore
1st Surname (or only) 2nd surname
First names H = male M = female
Date of birth Town of birth Country of birth
Fathers first name Mothers first name
Your nationality Status C married V widowed D Divorced SP Separated
Address in Spain: the Road, Number, Floor number (if in a block)
Town Post code Province
Telephone No. Email
Section 2
If your representative is doing it this is their section, ignore
Section 3
Where correspondence should be sent, so as in section 1
Section 4
What are you applying for, tick box
Sign and then, in boxes below
box I is the place you are signing it so say, Fuengirola,
box 2 Date so maybe 1st
box 3 April,
box 4 2012
Last line say Fuengirola Prov. Malaga
(In Spain it is the practice to show where you are (the town) when you sign forms. It also the practice to show your parents first names, even if they died years before)
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Refuse to give the information on parents. They have zero right under the EU Directives to require it.
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Refuse to give the information on parents. They have zero right under the EU Directives to require it.
What a strange thing to say 66d
That my mothers name was Margaret and my father’s Albert does not seem to me the biggest secret I would want to keep !!!!! And now you all know it too !!!!!
Asking the first names of parents is normal procedure in Spain on practically every official document. I do not believe it to be sinister but just a measure, which was probably introduced to distinguish people from one another with the same names, a real problem in small Spanish communities.
That is the reason, the Police in UK and been asking Cypriots the same question for about 50 years.
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It is irrelevant what "the practice in Spain" is.
What is relevant is what they are lawfully permitted to ask before issuing the certificate. The rules on that are crystal clear and questions on parentage are not one of them.
It is not at all strange that I actually believe that if they wish to remain in the EU, they must stick to the rules they signed up to, and not simply invent new ones and expect everyone to comply.
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Sorry guys.
I posted this to help people complete the application.
I hope it does not get lost in posts (going off on tangents) which do not assist in that.
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johnzx... Thanks for the post. Now for another bit of thread drift...
66dd35...
quote... What is relevant is what they are lawfully permitted to ask before issuing the certificate.
C'mon lets not get into yet another p*ssing contest on this forum...
In the UK, when you apply for a new first issue passport, you are required to attend an interview with an officer of the IPS. This takes the form of a formal Q&A session during which time the officer may ask question relating to a number of factors including details of your National Insurance number, your bank account details, your credit and debit card details, parental details, how long you have been at your present address, virtually anything they like down to how ofter you change your underwear and where you hang it out to dry. The IPS are looking to extend this Q&A session to passport renewals too. If you dont pass the interview you dont get the Passport. Personnel at UK Job Centres advise people drawing JSA and prospective candidates for jobs overseas not to apply for a passport because they will be unlikely to pass the IPS interview.
Are UK civil servants allowed to do this? According to EU law probably not BUT the fact remains that they do and can screw you around as much as they please and all with UK Government approval.
When one applies for Registration on the EU Citizens Register one does so at the Extranjeros Office of the National Police. Are you seriously going to argue the toss with a civil servant knowing that you are surrounded by armed police? The best that will happen is that you will be asked to leave... the alternatives dont bear thinking about!
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If you don't want to put your parents names down, you can enter s/n (sin novedad) and they accept it. I don't, however, think they are making up rules as these were in place long before the EU. Still, much better for the expats to get the Spanish to change their rules, isn't it? One of the reasons we Brits no longer have those useful little ID cards that came with residencia and now have to cart our passports around with us everywhere we go. Which begs the question, why do you have to carry ID in Spain but not in UK? Ah, these silly little rules that apply to everybody, Spanish included.
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foxbat, i'm genuinely intrigued:
"Personnel at UK Job Centres advise people drawing JSA and prospective candidates for jobs overseas not to apply for a passport because they will be unlikely to pass the IPS interview."
why would they be unlikely to get a passport - and how would they get the job overseas without one?
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THE APPLICATION FORM
Section 1
NIE PAS/NIF ignore
1st Surname (or only surname) 2nd surname (if you have one)
First names H = male M = female
Date of birth Town of birth Country of birth
Fathers first name Mothers first name
Your nationality Status C married V widowed D Divorced SP Separated
Address in Spain: the Road, Number, Floor number (if in a block)
Town Post code Province
Telephone No. Email
Section 2
If your representative is doing it, this is their section, if you are doing it then ignore this
Section 3
Where correspondence should be sent, so probably as in section 1
Section 4
What are you applying for, tick box
Sign and then, in boxes below
box I is the place you are signing it so say, Fuengirola,
box 2 Date, so maybe 1st
box 3 maybe April,
box 4 maybe 2012
Last line say Fuengirola Prov. Malaga
(In Spain it is the practice to show where you are (the town) when you sign forms. It also the practice to show your parents first names, even if they died years before)
This message was last edited by johnzx on 07/05/2012.
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Guy...See separate thread... EU Citizens, Passports, and JSA raised in an attempt to keep this thread on track. I know I dragged it off track in the first place but my comment, I think was perfectly valid... you dont argue with Spanish officialdom in the presence of armed police...!
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You don't need to wory , they are denying residency tomany people on another forum & are requiring you to comply with this lot as from the 24th April !
http://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2012/04/24/pdfs/BOE-A-2012-5403.pdf
A lot of it illegal under eu rules.
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Todos somos Lorca.
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When one applies for Registration on the EU Citizens Register one does so at the Extranjeros Office of the National Police. Are you seriously going to argue the toss with a civil servant knowing that you are surrounded by armed police
You betcha. Every time. Without exception.
What are they going to do? Shoot me dead for insisting they follow the law? Having argued with petty officials everwhere from the US to Egypt - this lot are really not up to much by comparison!
They also tend to back off pretty fast if they realise you know your stuff and know how to handle this kind of thing.
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Yes, much of it is totally unlawful, and completely unworkable. The entire thing is a complete mess. They fail to realise that Spain does not and cannot "grant" or "deny" residency. Those rights are automatic treaty rights. If you meet the ciriteria set out in the relevant EU (not Spanish) regulations you automatically have an absolute right to be here, to live here, and to work here on equal footing with any Spanish citizen. It seems they completely fail to take this on board. The "certificates" are completely irrelevant to this. They make no difference, They cannot expel anyone of "economic grounds", that is completely forbidden. Neither can they deny a right of residency except on some very narrow and highly specific grounds, all of which involve grave threats to national security. Even then - you can appeal. So it seems they intend to deny issuing "certificates". Fine. Let them deny them. Maybe at that point they might begin to realise how completely pointless and useless this entire process really is. It achieves absolutely nothing. It does not affect your right of residency, and has no effect of your tax residency either....
They cannot expell anyone, and they cannot deny anyone entry (with above notable exceptions). It is completely crazy.
It really is about time the ex-pat community (all EU citizens) found some guts and started standing up to this blatant abuse of the process, instead of caving in under imagined threats of "officers with guns". . Put in complaints via SOLVIT for one thing, and write to your Euro MP's.
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Are UK civil servants allowed to do this? According to EU law probably not BUT the fact remains that they do
They are allowed to do that under EU law as a passport is an identity document and they are fully permitted to make any necessary enquiries to establish that you are who you say you are and are entitled to receive one.
The conditions for the issue of a Certificate of Registration of an EU Citizen, are, however, tightly proscribed by EU directive and no, they cannot add supplementary questions or any other "administrative procedure" to those permitted by the said regulation.
Hope this answers your question.
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THE APPLICATION FORM
Section 1
NIE PAS/NIF ignore
1st Surname (or only surname) 2nd surname (if you have one)
First names H = male M = female
Date of birth Town of birth Country of birth
Fathers first name Mothers first name
Your nationality Status C married V widowed D Divorced SP Separated
Address in Spain: the Road, Number, Floor number (if in a block)
Town Post code Province
Telephone No. Email
Section 2
If your representative is doing it, this is their section, if you are doing it then ignore this
Section 3
Where correspondence should be sent, so probably as in section 1
Section 4
What are you applying for, tick box
Sign and then, in boxes below
box I is the place you are signing it so say, Fuengirola,
box 2 Date, so maybe 1st
box 3 maybe April,
box 4 maybe 2012
Last line say Fuengirola Prov. Malaga
(In Spain it is the practice to show where you are (the town) when you sign forms. It also the practice to show your parents first names, even if they died years before)
This message was last edited by johnzx on 31/05/2012.
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If anyone has found this info lacking please let me know
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" So it seems they intend to deny issuing "certificates". Fine. Let them deny them. Maybe at that point they might begin to realise how completely pointless and useless this entire process really is. It achieves absolutely nothing. It does not affect your right of residency, and has no effect of your tax residency either...."
As i mentioned in a previous post here, its all very well you saying "let them deny issuing a certificate of registration" but how can you get a Spanish driving license for example without one!? Catch 22 no?, Potentially if you are not retired, cannot prove sufficient funds or dont have health cover entitlement in Spain you could be denied a certificate of registration as an EU citizen therefore denying the ability to get a Spanish license!
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What do you mean deny issuing - did you mean refuse to issue?
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yes, refuse to issue, although this has not happened to me, if an EU citizen cannot meet the the new EU registration requirements ie income proof etc, potentially they could be refused a certificate, the point i was making how could a driving license be applied for without the registration certificate, really there shouldnt be conditions to obtaining it as its just an EU registry
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But it is not the EU it is Spain.
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