Generic Bank Guarantee's

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03 Mar 2012 00:00 by strawberryblonde Star rating. 3 posts Send private message

A friend / associate of mine on instruction from his previous lawyer paid his deposits for property on Trampolin Hills into the Cajamar bank (not a special account) and did not receive a bank guarantee.

He has now got a new lawyer who is trying to get his money back for him and they are making a claim against the La Caixa bank who have a collective generic bank guarantee. I was thinking of going down the same road but I find it hard to believe that the La Caixa bank are in anyway responsible for the return of his deposits when he did not deposit any money with them.

I would appreciate anybodys take on this as i do not want to throw more good money after bad if this case is unlikely to succeed.

Any ideas ?





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03 Mar 2012 18:09 by trowell1 Star rating. 126 posts Send private message

 hi

It is true you can claim on a banks generic bg. Our group have just won our case,however the bank has appealed, not surprising. But monies have been returned already in more advanced cases. Call guadalupe at gm legal in Murcia, tell her your circumstances and go from there. All my costs came in at less than 1k euro which we have claimed back.

Good luck

 





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03 Mar 2012 18:10 by trowell1 Star rating. 126 posts Send private message

 hi

It is true you can claim on a banks generic bg. Our group have just won our case,however the bank has appealed, not surprising. But monies have been returned already in more advanced cases. Call guadalupe at gm legal in Murcia, tell her your circumstances and go from there. All my costs came in at less than 1k euro which we have claimed back.

Good luck

 





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04 Mar 2012 12:33 by belucky358 Star rating in North Yorkshire. 181 posts Send private message

Hi,

Can someone throw some light on these "GENERIC BANK GUARANTEES"

Exactly what is a Gen. B. G. ??

Who do you ask to find out if you are covered by one ??

Has anyone else used this route before and has it been successful ??

Cheers belucky


 



This message was last edited by belucky358 on 04/03/2012.



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04 Mar 2012 13:20 by trowell1 Star rating. 126 posts Send private message

Hi All

 A generic bg is one that issued by a bank to the development that is then sold, each buyer should then get a bg.

however even if the builder does not give a bg to the buyer, the bank still will deposit our cash in the builders(guaranteed) account.

it is then the banks responsiblity to give the cash to the development as neccesary to complete it

So the bank is then at fault if the monies are spent on other things i.e sex, drugs , rock n roll etc by the builder

there is a lot more legal jargon, but that is it in a nutshell

we have won our initial case which has been appealed, but 1 person on our development has had their cash back

its the cost of a phone call to spain at gm legal to see if you have a shot at this, give it try

Guadalupe at gm legal has been fantastic, professional throughout and gives constant updates.

I am going to spain in april to look at completed properties and am going to see Guadalupe and thank her in person and will be using gm legal for my purchase when I get the cash back and find the one which will cost nearly half of what the original off plan property was.

Regards





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06 Mar 2012 14:42 by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 8098 posts Send private message

mariadecastro´s avatar

 Every Bank Guarantee which is given to a buyer in an off plan purchase is an individual certificate that the Guarantoor Bank or ibnstitution issues once the developer request it from it for the buyer.

The agreement bewteen developer and bank/ Insurance company is prior to the signing of contracts. this is what is called among us the " generic or general Guarantee" which can be a Bank or an Insurance commitment.

The name of the Bank or Insurance Company which is guaranteeing the refund of deposits if the property is not finished on time needs to be clearly established in the Contract, plus, of course the account where money is paid. an individual certificate needs to be provided to the client so that an enforcement, quick judicial action can be used by him.

This does not mean that the lack of that individual certificate takes rights against the guarantoor away. The buyer can use a declarative procedure either against the guarantoor institution or the bank where money was places ( or even both at the same time) for the refund of deposits plus legal interests in the event the property is not finished on time.

I do hope this helps.Please let me know if you have any further question/s.

 



_______________________

Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA

Lawyer

Director www.costaluzlawyers.es

El blog de Maria



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08 Mar 2012 03:04 by pff001 Star rating. 118 posts Send private message

Hello

None of these replies really answer the original question which was can a claim on a generic BG be made to another bank that does not hold the generic BG (see the original post)


 



This message was last edited by pff001 on 08/03/2012.



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08 Mar 2012 06:54 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 3377 posts Send private message

PFF
Quote       "He has now got a new lawyer who is trying to get his money back for him and they are making a claim against the La Caixa bank who have a collective generic bank guarantee.”
 
It would appear that you have the answer (for what its worth) from a lawyer, so anyone here would be only guessing.



_______________________





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08 Mar 2012 17:55 by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 8098 posts Send private message

mariadecastro´s avatar

Pff001:

There are two Banks which are liable for the refund of deposits under Law 57/68:

- The Guarantoor Bank, which signed the agreement for guaranteeing refunds of deposits

-The receiver Bank, which received advanced amounts off-plan and is liable to ensure the corresponding Guarantees exist

Does this clarify yout doubts? 



_______________________

Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA

Lawyer

Director www.costaluzlawyers.es

El blog de Maria



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12 Mar 2012 12:49 by ads Star rating. 1650 posts Send private message

Maria,

Please can you advise if legal costs inccured to date associated with developer breach of contract (including developer appeal) can be reclaimed if a claim is made against the Bank using a Generic Bank Guarantee? Will these legal costs be included within the Bank claim? Or will these legal costs incurred to date have to be written off?

Is the Generic Bank Guarantee a declarative procedure and a speedier route to justice?





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12 Mar 2012 17:08 by Suzie Star rating in England. 155 posts Send private message

And what if after 'winning' against the bank & a possible appeal, they do as the developers and refuse to pay?  Is this a possibility?  How is the judgement then enforced against the bank?

Ads - I'm pretty sure your previous costs against the developer would not be included in a claim against the bank but of course you need a lawyer's answer on this one.
 

p.s. Sorry for edits! Spelling mistakes...

This message was last edited by Suzie on 12/03/2012.



This message was last edited by Suzie on 12/03/2012.



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13 Mar 2012 10:04 by ads Star rating. 1650 posts Send private message

Does a successful first instance ruling for developer breach of contract and successful resolution against the developer appeal not count for anything within the Generic Bank claim? Are these factors not linked in any way within the Bank claim route? Are costs and interest as per the legal rulings against the developer to be written off?

There will be many people reviewing this scenario Maria so this is an important aspect to clarify.





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13 Mar 2012 14:05 by wakemans Star rating. 57 posts Send private message

We have just recently won a case against the banks using law 57/68 for not providing a bank guarantee and have been refunded. In my opinion this type of case has a much better chance of success than claiming against the developer as the developer will always plead they have no money or are already in administration, our developer was in administration. Full details can be found on the Santa Ana Del Monte forum

It only took just over 12 months from the start of the case to getting our money back

All our previous expenses for lawyers are not refundable, only the expenses incurred for this particular case will be refunded, we also have to wait around 6 months for the expenses claim to reach court.

So it is unlikely you would be able to recover costs from a previous case against the developer.

I am sure Maria will confirm this when she is able to post.

Best Wishes

Chris & Julie





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13 Mar 2012 15:04 by ads Star rating. 1650 posts Send private message

The question then follows are law firms who exposed the purchaser to this risk by their lack of due diligence from the outset culpable for any unrecovered costs?





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13 Mar 2012 18:49 by jaswaine Star rating. 26 posts Send private message

Good to hear Chris & Julie have been lucky and got their money back.  Our case has been ongoing for over 3 years and despite winning every Court judgement and appeal we have still not received a penny.  Seizure of assets claim against the bank was issued in January but still nothing.  We really have no faith in the Courts or ever getting our money back.





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13 Mar 2012 20:29 by Joe1 Star rating. 127 posts Send private message

Joe1´s avatar

Hi jaswaine,

Which Bank did you make your claim against?





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14 Mar 2012 09:45 by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 8098 posts Send private message

mariadecastro´s avatar

Dear Julie, Chris, Ann and all:

Once you recovered your money, YOU CAN DIRECT an indeminityh action against the lawyer who assisted you during conveyancing, always proving the damages ( finantial and moral) related to the negligency.

All Lawyers in Spain have an indeminity insurance to cover these events.

Kindest,

Maria 



_______________________

Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA

Lawyer

Director www.costaluzlawyers.es

El blog de Maria



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14 Mar 2012 10:16 by ads Star rating. 1650 posts Send private message

Thanks for the clarification Maria.

In the interim, how do you plan to deal with the obstructive behaviour by the Banks if they fail to respond to court rulings, even after appeal? How do you effectively enforce the rulings?

 



This message was last edited by ads on 14/03/2012.



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20 Mar 2012 22:21 by ads Star rating. 1650 posts Send private message

Maria,

When you achieve a resolution against a developer appeal in favour of your client, is the purchase contract formerly cancelled at that point? If so, does this allow the developer to re-sell the property and will this then compromise any claim against the Bank? Or will a preliminary enforcement issued after the first instance ruling still stand and prohibit this from happening?





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22 Mar 2012 11:33 by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 8098 posts Send private message

mariadecastro´s avatar

Dear Ads:

I am answering to you below in bold green ( same text as your email): 

 Maria,

When you achieve a resolution against a developer appeal in favour of your client, is the purchase contract formerly cancelled at that point? Yes, if the action was for contract cancellation.  If so, does this allow the developer to re-sell the property, yes, if he is not appealing  and will this then compromise any claim against the Bank? Of course not. These are related but unconnected actions. Or will a preliminary enforcement issued after the first instance ruling still stand and prohibit this from happening? Not if the developer has not actually paid up.



_______________________

Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA

Lawyer

Director www.costaluzlawyers.es

El blog de Maria



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