I'm worried for Spain

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01 Dec 2011 00:00 by EOS Team Star rating in In Spain of course!. 4354 posts Send private message

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When the lights start going out it really does bring home how bad things have become here in Andalucia.

I live on the Cosa del Sol and the entire strectch of the A7 coast road is now pitch black at night.  From Manilva all the way to Fuengirola, the lights have literally gone out.

At first I thought it was because of some technical issue but it's not.  It's about money and who pays the bills.  Since 1993 the town halls have been paying for the road lighting but now they are saying that it's not their responsibility, they say it's the junta that should be paying.

So all the road lights are now permanently off at night.

If you've driven the coast road before you'll know that in many parts it's quite unsafe.  I fear on dark nights and heavy rain we are going to have some serious accidents now.  It is just pitch black.

I can't believe it has come to this.

Then, talking to some people in the bar this morning over breakfast, they were telling me that people are queuing outside the unemployment office from 4am.  The queues outside were so long that they are even disrupting the traffic.

They were also talking about the huge numbers of families now with zero income as they are no longer entitled to any benefits (they stop after 2 years).  How scary.

None of the Christmas lights have yet gone up in the area either.  Normally they are up by now, especially as it is "puente" next week.

I'm not known for my pessimism but I am truly worried for the country and its people.

I'm not sure what the new government can do to solve this "crisis" but I for one would not like to be in Rajoy's shoes.

I think 2012 is going to be an even tougher year for Spain than this year.  More job losses, more businesses going under, more poverty.  It has to get worse before it can start to get better.

Yes, it all seems very bleak but it's also very real. I fear it's more than just the A7 lights that are going to go out in the coming months.

Drat, I wish I could be more positive!

Justin



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01 Dec 2011 11:08 by Keith110 Star rating in the UK and I am lead.... 664 posts Send private message

Hi Justin

Yes it is worrying for Spain.

But......you are not alone.

In the 'new city' of Milton Keynes many of the street lights on the grid roads (main H & V roads) were turned off a few months ago to save money!!


http://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/local/darkness_to_fall_over_grid_roads_1_2827143

The council even put up signs on each affected stretch of road to warn drivers that the street lighting is not being used.

It was not too bad in the summer, but now in the winter with it still being dark at 8am and then dark again by 4pm it is going to be dangerous - especially if there is a lot of snow and ice as in the past 3 winters.

And yesterday most schools were closed due to strikes.  Also many hospitals, prisons etc were also affected by the strikes.  And let's not forget the riots back in the summer...........

Its sad to say but I think we are all in it together Justin!

Kind regards

Keith


 



This message was last edited by Keith110 on 01/12/2011.

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01 Dec 2011 11:20 by haydngj Star rating in ALGORFA. 393 posts Send private message

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All this is caused by human greed, the rich want to be richer  and the poor have no choice. The ones with all the riches will all keep it and let the poor get poorer. They'll rob the pension of the working class.. Speculate to accumalate sod the peasents is thier motto





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01 Dec 2011 12:43 by D_B_S Star rating. 179 posts Send private message

Justin,

I suspect none of us would like to be in the shoes of PM's right now. But there again prehaps we would if we took the difficult decissions Leaders continue not to take. I guess I can understand it as most Politions need to get re-elected after their term so they push the difficult choices into the long grass. Until governments do what is right for the long term success of their Countries and Regions things will remain difficult.

I now live in UAE and there seems to be little sence that things are difficult as we have government that looks after the locals interest first. Then again they don't have to be stand for election and can take the long term view to build for the future.

Hope the politicians get to grip with the problems in Europe soon as there are 200M people that are looking to them for leadership and solutions.

David



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01 Dec 2011 12:44 by bob.dunford6 Star rating. 49 posts Send private message

 remember , all the countries in the european market have lived without the euro. for thousands of years .and can do the same again.when we all traded together, Then we traded together without paying extra money into THE EU PARLIMENT. (for the fat cats in the european parliment.)Take Britain for instance .They Trade with all the EU Countries But have to pay into the EU Parliment 9 Billion Pounds Sterling every Year, What for,Mainly to keep the EU Coutrts(Which are very big) Working.Now what do the EU Courts do for us,Any time you send in a Petition to them, They send back we cannot interfear with any other EU Countries Laws, be them Right or Wrong.So what is the EU Courts doing for us, But taking our Money, This goes for all the EU Countries .Lets first see if we can Cut Back our Fees to them.This would help .All the Countries out.We have all these EU MPs .And our own Countries MPs.Why do we have to pay all these MPs,This is why some of the Countries in the European Market cannot afford to be in it,.To much Money Wasted .making people Rich.We all must look after our own Countries and the People who live their.And not Wasting our Hard Worked Money on things we do not need.Lets go back to the Beginning.We all want to Trade with each other.What does this Cost.But Agreements.The EU Parliment Cost go up each Year Why,our Trading is no Bigger,This is what it is all about Trading.Please just sit down and think about it.With all the Countries Paying in their Fees, To Run the EU.it must be Hundred Billion  Pounds EACH YEAR GOING IN THE POT..And where does all this Money Go If not in Trading.Their are lots of Questions here i think.Each year Britain pays the EU Fees. I just think what could Britain do with all this Money.It could help our Schools,Hospitals.Pensioners.If we were out of the European Market and Saving this Money or Fee.We could still Trade with Europe .America does. Russia ..Australia. New Zealand.And many more.still trade.





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01 Dec 2011 12:47 by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 8126 posts Send private message

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 Justin:

EOS is a fantastic tool to create jobs and wealth of Andalucia and Spain.

If we get to convince Banks on getting closer to their claimers, put properties at better prices after the acknowldging of  liabilities before those whose money was not protected during the boom. They will find hundreds of people wanting to buy in Spain again, on the coastal places which are becoming ghost-like.

I am positive this will create a huge number of jobs and better position of Local treasures

Let´s keep moving ahead... talk to Keith Rule!

Maria



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01 Dec 2011 12:56 by D_B_S Star rating. 179 posts Send private message

Bob,

speaking as an Ozzie living in Dubai, I'm not sure Oz and NZ would like to resume the trading partnerships we used to have with the UK. We had to find new markets after being cut adrift by the UK and are very happy trading with the far east and India. At least our countries haven't spent money we don't have or can't afford to pay back.

David



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01 Dec 2011 13:41 by rod Star rating in Uk and Spain. 464 posts Send private message

I read last week in the Times that if the top 1% of the worlds richest donated 1% of their wealth we would all be out of this ecconomic crisis

The A 7 is dangerous I here the La cala curve has claimed numerous lives over the years in particular ,they are saving 400 euros a day in electricity my friend who lives in Cabapino was telling me.

Apparently then you can place a cost on Human lives the above stretch of road is I heard still lit but for how long?

False ecconomy as per usual

Rod

 

 



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01 Dec 2011 14:56 by SMYTHIE Star rating. 153 posts Send private message

 I use that piece of road a lot and find putting the headlights on at night kinda helps





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01 Dec 2011 15:14 by joanmalaga Star rating in Costa del Sol. 424 posts Send private message

Well, we all use that road a lot and yes, it is a serious danger now.

Smythie: I do hope you switch thise headligths off when you see another car heading the other way, i have been blinded in many ocassions lateley and nearly went off teh bend last week becuase of this!

I seriously find it so hard to believe that they are allowed to do this.

How long will this go on for? How many lifes will have to be lost?

If i could i would leave at the moment as nothing seems to get any better or give me any hope towards it getting better in the near future.

Joan

 





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01 Dec 2011 15:20 by meggie Star rating in Lincolnshire. 116 posts Send private message

Yes, Maria, if all you mention SHOULD happen actually DID happen, it would certainly help Spain.  BUT....the problems you write about have been part of Spain's downturn for years and, to date, what has the Spanish Government done to help? 

We read on this site, and others, that a few people have had some or all of the money back (with the help of Abogados like yourself) that was taken/kept from them ilegally but I, for one, am not convinced there has been any real change in the Spanish legal system to stop the corruption should the property market take off again. There have been ideas put forward and some of them have been taken onboard for now.  But I can see the same old problems starting up again with nothing and no-one to stop them. 

Up until recently, we still harboured thoughts of buying a place in Spain to spend as much time there as we could.  For the past 4 years we have kept alive our dream of doing just that.  But, the years go by and we still don't feel confident enough in the Spanish legal system to part with any of our savings.  Sad to say, our love affair with Spain has dwindled to such an extent (as it has with all our like-minded friends) that we are in the throes of looking at other countries in which to spend the several months of the year that we were spending in Spain until last year.

Spain is a beautiful country with some of the kindest, friendliest people you could ever hope to meet. I hope I'm wrong in my beliefs that nothing that SHOULD change (and there's a hell of alot that shouldn't!) WILL change any time soon.

To echo Justin, I wish I could be more positive.  But, sometimes you just have to give an honest opinion of how you feel.

 



This message was last edited by meggie on 01/12/2011.

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01 Dec 2011 15:49 by EOS Team Star rating in In Spain of course!. 4354 posts Send private message

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smythie, yes, switching the headlights on definitely help

But, in many places it's a dangerous road with cars coming onto it from a total standstill in many places.

Only recently there was an enourmous and serious accident at the San Pedro/ Benahavis junction and that's when the lights were on. There are many accident blackspots along the A7/ N340 and switching off the lights is not going to help anyone apart from the townhall coffers.

Justin



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01 Dec 2011 15:49 by SMYTHIE Star rating. 153 posts Send private message

 joanmalaga

i dont understand what byou suggest it is illegal to drive at night without the headlights on even in spain.

when a car approaches at night look to the kerb in the distance ahead, that way you wont get

blinded.

safe motoring





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01 Dec 2011 16:00 by rod Star rating in Uk and Spain. 464 posts Send private message

I think Joan and Smythie may have a Bill Murray

High beam/Low beam perhaps

Anyway Spanish drivers are the best in the world LOL

Rod



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01 Dec 2011 16:10 by SMYTHIE Star rating. 153 posts Send private message

 Nope, roads here so busy never get the chance to use full beam anyway, the big and very safe concrete blocks lol between carriageways stop the light getting through anyway and the lovely steel bars on the near side stop you coming of the road.

however they are very useful for crushing cyclists who insist on riding in packs along the motorway.

someone did once tell me they found driving here so terrifying that they always  drove with their eyes closed

 





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01 Dec 2011 16:28 by rod Star rating in Uk and Spain. 464 posts Send private message

The AP7 (toll road) now looks very attractive

Rod



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01 Dec 2011 19:13 by guslopez Star rating in Lorca, Murcia.. 749 posts Send private message

SMYThIE

 Nope, roads here so busy never get the chance to use full beam anyway, the big and very safe concrete blocks lol between carriageways stop the light getting through anyway and the lovely steel bars on the near side stop you coming of the road.

however they are very useful for crushing cyclists who insist on riding in packs along the motorway.

someone did once tell me they found driving here so terrifying that they always  drove with their eyes closed

Unfortunately under Spanish law 2 cyclists constitute a car & have to be overtaken as such. On the motorway they are meant to be on the hard shoulder.,



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01 Dec 2011 21:19 by Marksfish Star rating in Sandy, Bedfordshire/.... 2426 posts Send private message

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 Motorways throughout the UK now have lights off from midnight to 5am, signs every mile down the road abound. Some streets now only have every other street light lit to save a few pennies. It isn't just the fact councils don't want to pay the bills, copper thieves have just stripped a stretch of new dual carriageway into Leeds of street lighting cable, no- one even noticed!!

To save money, Leeds city council have just spent the best part of £1,000,000 replacing good lights with energy efficient lights. Cost? 20 years to pay back mony that is needed elsewhere. Politicians are all the same World over, don't think!!

Mark



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02 Dec 2011 08:57 by davey Star rating in Wigan /La Tercia Mur.... 214 posts Send private message

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I freely admit I don't understand what's going on in the eurozone with the economic crisis. I know Greece, Italy, Ireland, Portugal and to some extent Spain are in trouble financially.

Please can someone IN LAYMAN'S TERMS explain the situation to me. What would / will happen if the Euro "Fails"

I'd also like to know how the crisis may affect the following, the value of my property in Spain, the Spanish mortgage and repayments. And finally the cost of living in Spain?

Thanks





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02 Dec 2011 09:30 by D_B_S Star rating. 179 posts Send private message

Davey,

in laymans terms - Countries have borrowed more than they can aford to pay back (as they are not and some where never able) loans. A majority of governments spend more than they earn relying on loans (in the form of short term Bonds) to cover the spend with the hope that growth will enable them to make the interest payments and pay back the capital at the end of the period.

When a Country defaults the lender takes the hit. In the case of the Euro this will be a large number of European Banks. Banks take the hit - a big one - and they dont have money to lend to indiviguals and businesses. So businesses can't grow, people don't spend.

Houses don't get brought, prices fall (most are over valued anyway), prices go up. Unemployment goes up. Recession.

Not a pretty picture.

It's a little more complex that I have layed out, but it's not a good thing.

Have a nice day and let's hope the politions take a real leadership position. At least the US, UK and Chinese have made some positive moves.

David



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