PROPOSAL TO RE-OPEN THE SPORTS AND COMMUNITY AREA ON CONDADO

lets not get ahead of ourselves here

Feasability study needs to be carried out check out the practicalities with the leagals, then wory about what facilities to get up and running.

Currently the sports zone is set up for sports - a bar / cafe bar. (keep these and minimise costs)

Paying to use facilities is ok as it keeps the area regulated as previously mentioned and generates money for wages to pay staff obviously.

Got to get the sports zone working again. so unbeleivable that we all take our business down the road to the next urbanisation.

General opinion seems to be the owners don't mind a small uplift for better facilities and if profits can be ploughed back in then the uplift can be reduced again.

Who will take up the challenge

Is there enough year round demand to sustain both The Clover and a sports bar in the Sports Zone? In July and August there probably would be, but in the other 10 months of the year I seriously doubt that there is. We're out here just now and have only been to The Clover once, and it was reasonably busy but certainly nowhere near full. If it's making a profit just now I would be surprised. So if the second proposal goes ahead it would IMO either be unsustainable, or result in the closure of The Clover. People will choose one or the other I think, so I honestly can't see both surviving. Maybe in a couple of year time there may be enough demand for two bars, but just now I just don't think there is.

 Hmm,

Trentn7(?)  Both proposals are pretty much offering the same facilities, the BIG difference is that the first wants the community to fund them purchasing the sports area, the second just wants the community to contribute towards a lease  BIG DIFFERENCE.

Where in the first proposal did it details their financing?  Doesn't mention a 25 year mortgage.  

Given that they want the community to pay them approaching €400,000 a year, they could pay off the mortgage in 5 years and still have enough left to run the facility and make a healthy profit.  Oh and don't forget they want a €30 "Membership" fee, so that's all the start up costs covered as well!  Given these figures they can't lose it's a sure thing for them, but do a good deal for the community.

Lets put the €400,000 a year into perspective.  Last years budget was €2.8M so this is a 14% increase in the fees and for what? a single facility?.  Individually this is more that the cost of the telecom's, more than the annual electric bill, more that the annual water bill, I could go on, but lets just say it's a huge amount. 

Fozzer1, Cappielow and Tony all point out that, at the present time, it's unlikely to be profitable to anyone that had to pay the entire running costs themselves, as they all correctly say even the clover runs at a loss and is mostly empty 70% of the year.  If the golf club house ever gets open I would think that the majority of the people that currently go to the clover would go there rather than the sports area.  In Proposal 2 they are taking that risk, the community is only paying a small amount to them, but in the first they are taking no risk as they want the community to completely fund them.

As I've said previously I would like to see the sports area open but not at any price, and I'm definitely against the community funding a private purchase.

Linsinopril

The mortgage was mentioned  on the other forum!

People are mentioning "If" a clubhouse comes. I really think the chances of that are remote and any decissions made regarding the Sports Zone should be on that basis that there is no clubhouse and it will probably remain that way.

 Speaking to a few owners on the  jardines there seems to be a view that if the sports zone bar opened then they would go there more regularly as they could walk to it. alot of people have said they dont go to the clover but did go to the old sports bar and would  be interested in going to  a new sports bar due to accessability. So rather than taking business away from the clover i am under the impression new business would be forthcoming.

 The clover doeant seem to be doing much food at the moment and i am under the impression this side of the business is being lost to camposol. Also i see a lot of condado owners at camposol watching sports and eating and drinking there as the clover doesnt have sky sports. Again this is alot of business lost. It would also mean you could have a drink and watch the sports and not risk drinking and driving or asking the missus to stay on the OJ. As far as risk to the community goes i cant see 2 euros a month really make a big hole in peoples pockets. After all if someone else takes the project over then it will cost a damn site more than 2 euros a month to use the sports facilities. And as the proposal says if they are successful, and having met them i firmly believe they will be, then the fact they will pump back 20% of any profits is excellent news for the community.

cmon guys lets give them a chance.

 Just reading the last comments seems that the first proposal is dealing more with the sport facilities, gym and community, the second proposal is more likely to be another pub in the area where people can get cheap drinks and watch football. I think this was not the intention when CDA was planned nor is it the intention of the mayority of owners at the resort. We have been sourcing quite some places and regions on the Costas before we decided to buy at Condado de Alhama, maybe one of the reasons is that we can feel the difference to places like Benidorm or Torrevieja (or even Camposol). 

I would be happy to pay the 10 euros a month, knowing that we will enjoy the installations for maybe 6-7 weeks a year ourselves BUT I think it will be much easier to rent the apartment with decent sport & comunity facilities instead of another pub with all it's consequences. 

It appears to me that the main difference between the two current proposals is the cost. Both promise free sports facilities (Although I would rather there be a charge) and both promise a bar. However once proposal is 10 Euros per month and the other is 2 Euros per month, with a portion of the profits being returned to the comunity.

As for Rob and Bevs comments that this was never the intention when CDA was planned, I disagree. When CDA was planned there were several town centres with many bars and Restaurants. A lot of people bought at CDA because they wanted a choice of places to eat or drink.

I would rather see a small charge for the sports facilites, to prevent overcrowding in summer months and also so people who never use the facilities dont pay for them. Just like the Golf.

Darren is correct

We chose the position of our apartment in Jardin 5  because of the proximity to the sports zone & all of its facilities includuing "The surgery" & also the position of the small town centre that would have been built facing the the Sports zone & in easy walking  access from our apartment.

There wrer  other town centres planned  one to be close to  the Narajos apartments & eventually the Oasis which would have offerted the same & more.

Jan 

Hi Georgeh,

You're missing the point mate. No doubt a lot of people in the Jardines will frequent the Sports Bar instead of the Clover, you're absolutely correct there. But that's the point. If that means the Clover closes that won't be such a good deal for the people in Naranjos and the Penthouses, will it?

As it happens, I'm in Jardine 13 so it's half an dozen and six for me whether the bar is in Al Kazar or the Sports Zone, so I've got no real preference either way. My comments about two bars being unsustainable are more for what's good for the resort as a whole, not me personally.

 I'm just back from Condado where I initially heard of this hare brained scheme.  For me it's a non-starter, a lot of words have been written to say nothing.  A few people have requested a firm business paln.  Here is the business plan for the initial proposal.  Us idiots pay for facilities we will not use, once the mortgage on the premises is payed off by us the proposers bail out with a very healthy profit.  Not a bad business plan if you're daft enough to finance it.  The question that jumps out at you is, if you were inclined to finance a  mortagage why would you finance it for a third party.  Why impose additional community fees on people struggling  to make ends meet as it is.  Like other facilities if you wish to use them then pay for them, don't  burden others to satisfy your own needs.  

Pay as you go.  That's what I think.  If a business is good enough and well managed enough then the proof is in the pudding.  If it is worth its salt then the punters will be prepared to pay.  If the sports facilities are worth paying for and people want to use them then they will pay.  If not then they won't. Simple.  If the bar and service are good then folk will frequent it.  Simple.  If it is a viable and well managed business then it will thrive - providing accurate business planning/forecasting and number crunching is done.  Any service/hospitality business is a VERY hard slog - I know, my family have been in the game for over 20 years.  Good luck to anyone taking it on.  I am more than happy to pay for the facilities I use and welcome anyone prepared to have a go, but I, for one, am very wary of any funding of someone else's private business concern.

It seems pretty obvious to me that, best case scenario, there is no chance that the sports/bar area could operate as a self sustaining business for at best the next 4/5 years. So, if the community wants the facillity, It would have to be subsidised.

I personally ( much as my rapidly decaying body needs it ) would not use the sports area and would only occasionally use a cafe/ bar area. But I would be prepared to contribute if it meant the place could be available.( It used to be quite nice if we were having a walk round to stop off for a coffee). I don't think the bar would be any great threat to the Clover, It just isn't big enough and couldn't handle to many people at once.

So, I think the the question is, do we want it enough to somehow subsidise it. If we do, then I think that some form of community ownership ( if that is possible ) would be the best option. If we don't, then we would just have to wait and hope that it will eventually become a viable business proposition for somebody.

Anyway, I am just going to get my coat from the hanger, ( sometimes known as an exercise bike ) and go out for a bottle of wine.

Will be out to CDA next week and with or without the sports bar/area, will thourghly enjoy it.

Tom

 Just had Duncan Banantyne at my door, yes Duncan from Dragons Den.  He advises me that he wishes to open a Gym, Bar & Cafe in our town.  He wants all the locals to give him a one off payment of £30 up front followed by a  £10 per month contribution over the next 5 years to finance his new venture.  He said if business is good he may return 20% of his profits to our local council.  He did state that he would not allow us to audit his accounts.  After the 5 year period is up he hopes to sell this venture on to Peter Jones for a substantial profit leaving the towns people with nothing.  Peter Jones plans to ask us for an initial one off payment of £30 followed by a £10 per month donation for the next five years before passing the business over to Theo for a tidy wee sum.   After taking my donkey ears off I advised Duncan that I could see that his plan was slightly flawed in relation to the welfare of the local community.  However I did advise him that one or two people at Condado seem hell bent on throwing good money at a get rich quick venture like this.  Watch out for Duncan on Condado, he doesn't like to miss a good opportunity.

Well said Del007, thought we were the only ones that could see this.

I've been following this thread for a few days now, and kept thinking must post, must post, but then something else caught my eye and i thought good point, I'll ponder that, but here's the rub ..............

The surgery was crap when it was open, miserable service from miserable Herbert in a miserable 'surgical' location, lets not paint it to be something it wasn't, just look back to posts from 2008/2009 if you want the evidence, we were all taking the piss out of it, praying for something better at Al Katraz.

The sports facilities at the time were partly finished, no squash, no gym, but you could use paddle ball, tennis, flooded basketball court (Oct to Mar) as you can now - effectively, get through the fencing and you've still got the same facilities, no-one policies it so look after it and you get it for free! Treat it like crap and it will wear out. But we do now have good quality grass pitches up near Al Katraz, with nighly meets at 7pm in summer for a footy match - subject of course to over zealous/protective of young/wee Jimmy/Natalie parents  - well don't bring em if they can't mix????

€10 a month for an owner for a sports zone who visits 6 weeks a year is a non-starter, for a resident it may interest them if they want to use the facilities they can't already use by getting through the fence, if the fences were to be blocked off and policed - we employ the security, not the owners of Jardin 6/the Sports Zone so how will they ever be blocked off ?????

The Sports Zone was supposed to be free to owners, at the end of the sports zone was supposed to be a ''Foro'', we have neither, but we have the Al Katraz, Supermarket is ok, was vastly improved in March when i visited compared to August last year.

The Clover is what it is, a faux Irish Bar with equivalent UK facilities lacking major investment as it doesn't have the encatchment area - if this was in the UK it would have shut down by now. The basics tho should work - toilet handles per Jan's comments should be fixed tout suite - why hasn't anyone asked for the standard ''Spanish Complaint Form''?. I hated it in August as it was rammed and you couldn't get served/couldn't get a seat, but loved it in October when you could - didn't visit once in March as over on my own and chilled in my place instead, and had dinner on 2 occasions with other residents, once at mine, once at theirs ........ hey a bit like home in the UK where i don't goto the pub every night and can entertain myself.

When out with the kids, the pool is open till 10, i serve food till 11, we can drink all day, use the kids facilities till whenever - we don't need a sports zone or Al Katraz for entertainment.

In summary, i think a lot of people are getting excited about something which actually carries very little weight in terms of our enjoyment level, if we actually organised ourselves better then we could ''coffee'' at each others more often, so do we need to build up this type of 'getting together' as something we need? but is a Surgery/Sports Zone the answer at €10 a month?? ............... not in my opinion.

As a final point, in Feb 2009 i hosted a ''first completers'' get together - over 60 people turned up in 'chilled' weather, met some new friends, used my hot air-con, whilst i ran round like an idiot and ultimately remembered no-one, before clearing up for 3 hours the next day .............. i can't say i've seen anyone do anything similar since and have seen little of those who came round - perhaps i put them off 

So for €10 or €2 a month I'm out, complete waste of money for me as if you want to play sport  then pay for it as the golfers do, if you want a decent coffee then buy a decent coffee machine, and if you want to meet people then invite them round - they will come, and will come again if they like you !!!

Shampers

I think you have made some very good points.  As you quite rightly say people can still use the courts by going through the fence so no real problem for those wishing to play tennis.   For those on a two week break - do they get withdrawal symptoms if they can't use a gym - they can still jog round the policies! 

I think what most people are really looking for is an alternative to the Clover.  The only time I have every enjoyed going to the Clover is when they have a theme night but as I am never normally over at CDA during the summer holidays my visits to the Clover are few and far between.

As you rightly say Shampers - invite folk round and you can have a better and cheaper night!

Linda