Mac's Poll - Let's Vote

ken crossley said:
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 6:01 AM

personnely i think we should never have joined, look at the the countries bringing nothing to the "table" economy wise, yes you know who they are,i think if we pull out now, all the euro countries still in , would "gang up" on us, so my question is, WHO WOULD WE TRADE WITH"our own economy would go down the drain, and we would become just like the central euro countries that have no economy at all, (yep, but are in the eu, being carried by the strong nations)

Kelly said:
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 7:42 AM

Do you seriously think that europe would immediately stop buying whatever it is we export to them if we voted to come out of Europe?
I for one will be voting no to Europe to stop all these scrounging immigrants who take advantage of our generous welfare systems and NHS without making a contribution.
I am a stranger in my own country where I live and it is only going to get worse, think of the strain it puts on our schools and public services. Yet our own elderly people have to sell their homes to pay for care. There is something seriously wrong with our policies dictated to us by Brussels.

Nels said:
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 8:27 AM

I agree with Kelly, re immigrants, but does the UK need to offer benefits to these immigrants? Spain doesn't. Also recently on a UK TV discussion it was stated that an influx of immigrants was needed to get the 'cheaper paid work done'.
The problem seems to be that immigrants do not need to have jobs or private means of financial support prior to entering the country. Try entering Australia !

lenox said:
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 8:35 AM

As far as those of us who live in Spain as 'comunitarios', having the UK leave the EU (a referendum that many of us would not be allowed to participate in) would cause us to loose certain privileges here - like voting, working, enjoying certain services etc. On the brighter side, we would get a proper 'residencia' instead of having to carry around the current police card and passport combo.

said:
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 8:35 AM

the arrangement should be basically as a common marke, as was originally plannned. ray-pc

Ginny said:
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 8:46 AM

Leaving the EU could be disastrious for the ex-pat (pensioners) in Spain we could lose our Medical rights, our increase of Pensions and other privileges. The problem has been the admittance of other Countries (mainly Eastern European)

Graham Hedger said:
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 9:25 AM

Interesting times ahead now - and potentially life changing ones for many.
My own view is this:
The Franco-German alliance which is the EU, is terrified that the UK will say adios, me ol' beauty.
The UK is regarded as vital to the EU, not least because of our relationship with the US, our well regulated financial services industry, the perception that British still is, in some cases, best and our sheer inability to close our doors to illegal immigration.
Now, imagine the UK out of the EU.
1. It sets an enormous precedent to others who see the EU as unwieldy, unaccountable and generally unnecessary.
2. We will have, at last, the ability to say "No admittance". France and Germany will have to sort out the North African, Central European and other migrants themselves - at huge cost.
3. We may have tariffs implemented for our exports - a major negative for the UK
4. This may result in major companies (Nissan/Honda)pulling out and relocating.
5. The ECHR can be ripped up and rewritten to suit the UK, rather than other nations.
6. The pound will probably devalue, possibly to or below the Euro value - good for exports!
7. Expats abroad may have to satisfy some kind of residency rules - bad for all who live or plan to live in Spain, France, etc!

Until some unbiased agency can give all the facts to the British people, it is impossible to know what will REALLY happen, and this is something that is long overdue!!! Politicians cannot be trusted, the BBC is a government mouthpiece, the press is run by an Ozzie megalomaniac and the British people are too tied up with ignorance and historic family voting traditions!
And, of course, the number of non-Brits will be sympathetic to a "stay in" vote.
I see one major cluster f*** coming!

Paul Ackerman said:
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 10:25 AM

History has shown us that isolationism benefits no nation. We need trade, co-operation and confidence. That is to say that we should always fight our economic corner, express our opinions and make sure our opinion is heard. Since we have reduced our dependancy on manufacturing we had better make sure we market and sell our expertise and stop moaning and complaining. Be proactive and get motivated. Come on Britain, go grab the world by the scruff and move on!

Graham Hedger said:
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 10:34 AM

Interesting times ahead now - and potentially life changing ones for many.
My own view is this:
The Franco-German alliance which is the EU, is terrified that the UK will say adios, me ol' beauty.
The UK is regarded as vital to the EU, not least because of our relationship with the US, our well regulated financial services industry, the perception that British still is, in some cases, best and our sheer inability to close our doors to illegal immigration.
Now, imagine the UK out of the EU.
1. It sets an enormous precedent to others who see the EU as unwieldy, unaccountable and generally unnecessary.
2. We will have, at last, the ability to say "No admittance". France and Germany will have to sort out the North African, Central European and other migrants themselves - at huge cost.
3. We may have tariffs implemented for our exports - a major negative for the UK
4. This may result in major companies (Nissan/Honda)pulling out and relocating.
5. The ECHR can be ripped up and rewritten to suit the UK, rather than other nations.
6. The pound will probably devalue, possibly to or below the Euro value - good for exports!
7. Expats abroad may have to satisfy some kind of residency rules - bad for all who live or plan to live in Spain, France, etc!

Until some unbiased agency can give all the facts to the British people, it is impossible to know what will REALLY happen, and this is something that is long overdue!!! Politicians cannot be trusted, the BBC is a government mouthpiece, the press is run by an Ozzie megalomaniac and the British people are too tied up with ignorance and historic family voting traditions!
And, of course, the number of non-Brits will be sympathetic to a "stay in" vote.
I see one major cluster f*** coming!

Julian said:
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 10:34 AM

I am a staunch hater of being so heavily tied to Europe. However we need it to continue to have the advantage when it comes to our industry. Look at all the foreign car manufacturers here. They are here for a reason. Also have you seen the drop in the value of the pound since this was announced. Sitting at 1.23, 1.24 to the euro and now dropped sharply and currently sitting at 1.17. Not good.

Julian said:
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 10:52 AM

I am a staunch hater of being so heavily tied to Europe. However we need it to continue to have the advantage when it comes to our industry. Look at all the foreign car manufacturers here. They are here for a reason. Also have you seen the drop in the value of the pound since this was announced. Sitting at 1.23, 1.24 to the euro and now dropped sharply and currently sitting at 1.17. Not good.

Foxilady said:
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 11:16 AM

Graham you took the words right out of my mouth.
In my opinion we need to opt out of the EU but Cameron and others have promised a referendum forever. He's just fishing for votes once again, so how serious is he?
London is still one of the financial hubs of the world and it's poppycock to suggest the UK will not be able to trade with the rest of the world, especially if we remain as we are as trade and not full members. The British public, for the most part, sees the EU as interference in UK internal policies and law. The EU is directly responsible for the reasons the UK has so many immigrants, both legal and illegal that are putting a severe strain on the economy. The problems here are highly complex and I am not sure that David Cameron, the EU and even the United States is laying all the cards on the table over this argument. Much has changed in Europe since 1975 and a referendum at this time would mean the British public would overwhelmingly vote to pull out. I still believe there is a lot the British public are not being told. Why is the United States so concerned about the UK pulling out of Europe? What possible affect could it have on them? For a starter, the U.S has contributed billions of dollars in keeping the European Union together and it also sees the UK as a very close partner and one who will help the U.S get what it wants from its NATO partners. I feel this goes much deeper and on an issue that nobody really wants to talk about, and that is military might. The United Kingdom, even though a small country, still has a reasonable sized force and one that is highly trained and fully adept to warfare. The UK has over the centuries learned how to deal with its foes and the question has to be asked; “How segregated would the UK become from NATO?” If the UK is removed from NATO due to lack of EU membership, how and where does this put the other EU member and the U.S?

DaviN said:
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 11:28 AM

We should remain in a "Common Market" only & opt out of all other regs dictated by the EU.

Maria said:
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 12:39 PM

@KEN CROSSLEY:

geez, yours is ze wurst inglish i hav seen 4 a long time , have you really ever konsiderud to get sum aducation b4 srowing yor wisom for miljons 2 read , if only , becoz ther are dots an commas you can use , . ?

Paul said:
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 12:47 PM

Apsollutely tru!

Paul said:
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 12:48 PM

Apsollutely tru!

Rob DJ said:
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 2:33 PM

@Foxilady : " The EU is directly responsible for the reasons the UK has so many immigrants, both legal and illegal that are putting a severe strain on the economy." The only reason you have so many immigrants is that because you have become a lazy country. You do not want to dirty your hands anymore. Look at your youth and the behaviour of the brits abroad it is appalling. Drunk from the morning onwards. You surely are not an example for us here in the continent.

keith28 said:
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 4:56 PM

Re Graham Hedger's point no. 5, the ECHR should not be confused with the EU. The European Convention on Human Rights, to which the UK was a founder signatory, was signed in the early 1950's, long before the Treaty of Rome which created the original Common Market and has nothing to do with the European Union - so leaving would not affect the UK's adherence to it.
It is my understanding that the automatic right to residence in Spain depends on the individual being a citizen of an EU country, so there would be far more at stake than merely healthcare and benefits rights if the UK withdrew - the right to remain here would be tenuous to say the least. That's the main reason I'm voting 'no'; anyone fancy standing in the queue for Spanish citizenship?

Robert said:
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 9:19 PM

We should never have joined we should have formed our own trade association with willing Commonwealth nations.
but having joined we ought to try working with them and stop whinging.
My money is for perfidious Cameron and cronies to attempt to curry favor with the French by committing British troop to assist and die in their latest disastrous African escapade

Aliton said:
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 10:12 PM

The average person in the street hasnt got a flippin clue about what effect leaving the EU would have to the UK. Just as the average Scot has no idea the full effect of leaving the UK and being a separate nation. To hold a pole at this stage is pointless and we can keep blabbering on about migrants when british have been migrating all over the world for many years. Personally I think we should stay in and work for a settlement on terms. You dont hear the rest of Europe complaining as much as the Brits. What about the Industrial Revolution , when Britain plundered the riches of the World . The Pound is sinking and so is the UK economy.

Richard said:
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 10:53 PM

Aliton has just about summed it up, how would the average Brit be able to make a judgment on the economic consequences of leaving the EU. A united Europe is needed to compete against the big and more powerful nations of the world. Just let a strong Government negotiate a sensible and fair deal for the UK.

Foxilady said:
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 10:59 PM

Rob DJ " Look at your youth and the behaviour of the brits abroad it is appalling. Drunk from the morning onwards." You surely cannot be saying that it's only the youth who are guilty, are you? I visit Spain often and most of the drunks I see are over 50! And lots over 60! And I still maintain as a small island our influx of immigrants is far too high, bearing in mind they don't have to work before going on to our benefits system. There just aren't enough jobs to go round and that's a fact. And emotions are running high in the UK because of this. These are the headlines in the Telegraph today "Britain facing new eastern Europe immigration surge
Britain is facing a new wave of Eastern European immigration which will put British workers’ jobs at risk, experts have warned." And twenty nine million Bulgarians and Romanians will gain the right to live and work unrestricted in Britain in 2014 under European “freedom of movement” rules. This problem is obviously going to escalate and imho has very little to do with laziness. We're busting at the seams.

Foxilady said:
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 11:01 PM

Rob DJ " Look at your youth and the behaviour of the brits abroad it is appalling. Drunk from the morning onwards." You surely cannot be saying that it's only the youth who are guilty, are you? I visit Spain often and most of the drunks I see are over 50! And lots over 60! And I still maintain as a small island our influx of immigrants is far too high, bearing in mind they don't have to work before going on to our benefits system. There just aren't enough jobs to go round and that's a fact. And emotions are running high in the UK because of this. These are the headlines in the Telegraph today "Britain facing new eastern Europe immigration surge
Britain is facing a new wave of Eastern European immigration which will put British workers’ jobs at risk, experts have warned." And twenty nine million Bulgarians and Romanians will gain the right to live and work unrestricted in Britain in 2014 under European “freedom of movement” rules. This problem is obviously going to escalate and imho has very little to do with laziness. We're bursting at the seams.

Phil said:
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 11:50 PM

UK is already isolated enough, if we leave EU the pound will be worth nothing, look how much value it has lost since his speech, and it won't happen in any case as by the time he promises a vote he will be history. US only want us as goffers and to follow like sheep in wars that don't involve us and which we can't afford. Get real UK is a tiny island in the middle of two large unions, who will be our friends if we pick up our bat and ball and walk off in a sulk?

Phil said:
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 11:51 PM

UK is already isolated enough, if we leave EU the pound will be worth nothing, look how much value it has lost since his speech, and it won't happen in any case as by the time he promises a vote he will be history. US only want us as goffers and to follow like sheep in wars that don't involve us and which we can't afford. Get real UK is a tiny island in the middle of two large unions, who will be our friends if we pick up our bat and ball and walk off in a sulk?

Phil said:
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 11:51 PM

UK is already isolated enough, if we leave EU the pound will be worth nothing, look how much value it has lost since his speech, and it won't happen in any case as by the time he promises a vote he will be history. US only want us as goffers and to follow like sheep in wars that don't involve us and which we can't afford. Get real UK is a tiny island in the middle of two large unions, who will be our friends if we pick up our bat and ball and walk off in a sulk?

Phil said:
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 11:52 PM

UK is already isolated enough, if we leave EU the pound will be worth nothing, look how much value it has lost since his speech, and it won't happen in any case as by the time he promises a vote he will be history. US only want us as goffers and to follow like sheep in wars that don't involve us and which we can't afford. Get real UK is a tiny island in the middle of two large unions, who will be our friends if we pick up our bat and ball and walk off in a sulk?

Phil said:
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 11:52 PM

UK is already isolated enough, if we leave EU the pound will be worth nothing, look how much value it has lost since his speech, and it won't happen in any case as by the time he promises a vote he will be history. US only want us as goffers and to follow like sheep in wars that don't involve us and which we can't afford. Get real UK is a tiny island in the middle of two large unions, who will be our friends if we pick up our bat and ball and walk off in a sulk?

Phil said:
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 11:52 PM

UK is already isolated enough, if we leave EU the pound will be worth nothing, look how much value it has lost since his speech, and it won't happen in any case as by the time he promises a vote he will be history. US only want us as goffers and to follow like sheep in wars that don't involve us and which we can't afford. Get real UK is a tiny island in the middle of two large unions, who will be our friends if we pick up our bat and ball and walk off in a sulk??

Phil said:
Saturday, January 26, 2013 @ 11:54 PM

SORRY, DON'T KNOW WHY THAT POSTED SO MANY TIMES - CANNOT DELETE ANY??

Phil said:
Sunday, January 27, 2013 @ 12:03 AM

MARIA. LOVE YOUR COMMENT ABOUT KEN CROSSLEY - NICE ONE!!

Dijit said:
Sunday, January 27, 2013 @ 12:38 AM

Absolutely and as soon as possible. All we need is a free trade agreement which would be forthcoming. Any country not willing to enter a FTA would be disadvantaged as their goods into Britain would be subject to import duty without an FTA. The billions we pour into that unelected body would be must better invested in Britain. Personally I would use it to reduce UK taxation thereby kickstarting the UK's competitive position on the global stage.

Richard said:
Sunday, January 27, 2013 @ 9:12 AM

I am British but have now lived longer in the Netherlands than the UK (having emigrated to NL in the early 70's). Britain cannot influence Europe from the outside and has far too big a stake in the European market to isolate itself by leaving. I don't like too much Brussels niggling euro-legalization interference either, a sentiment shared by many who live in the Netherlands. But the thought of the UK leaving Europe, with USA as lifeboat just scares me. I already have my application for Dutch naturalization being processed!

Sean said:
Sunday, January 27, 2013 @ 11:36 AM

I am not British but I agree with Aliton. Its a complex issue for all of us and not a decision to be taken based on the front page headlines of the red tops - unfortunately thats what will happen. The immigration thing is something you guys need to sort out yourselves but overall I do agree that the EU should be a common market, there is too much interference now.

Andrew said:
Sunday, January 27, 2013 @ 11:51 AM

Firstly, don't forget that Brits who have not been resident in UK for more than 15 years will be unable to vote in the referendum. Secondly there are so many provisos. Will Cameron win the election with an overall majority? Will some of the changes that he says are required have already been negotiated by the time of the election? Subjectively it would be a bad decision to come out. The degree of funding available from the EC for worthwhile projects would disappear. Subsidies for farmers, fishermen and others would be cut off and we would lay ourselves open to tariffs that could destroy opportunities for many industries and products.
Cameron is fudging the issue by proposing a referendum AFTER the next General Election. If the majority of Tory and Lib Dem MPs are in favour of remaining in the Community after consultation with their constituencies, why not settle the issue sooner rather than later by having an early referendum?

Irene said:
Sunday, January 27, 2013 @ 12:16 PM

On a recent uk Radio program in answer to a listeners worries
about an influx of Bulgarian and Romainan immigrants Nick Clegg suggested that a big majority would go to Spain.

Does he know about the unemployment rate in Spain ?

dartboy said:
Monday, January 28, 2013 @ 6:48 PM

We should stay in and just be more proactive in making the uk a less disirable place to come and get handouts.Make it so you have to pay in for 5 years before being entitled to anything.Minimum wage is enough to bring alot of european workers here because it is a rule that their countries don't have.We need to rewrite a few bits of law as well like 1 offence and your out we have enough people in jail costing the tax payer a fortune.I think the free trade agreement is a major benefit to us.We do need to rein in our overseas aid until we are back on our feet and our own services are up to scratch.

Nicechap said:
Saturday, February 9, 2013 @ 3:32 PM

The only reason the immigrants go to the UK is the hand outs I am retired and my wife lost her job last September she got 6 months unemployment and that was it she has been to the unemployment office and asked if they can help they said no so we now struggle on my pension if the UK was to stop handing out money like they do the immigrant problem would go away if the UK pull out of the EU we will return to the UK and claim every benefit we can bye way no commas for Phil and Maria

Jeff said:
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 5:50 PM

The EU is just another flawed socialist/communist project that is already at the point of collapse. The sooner the UK pulls out the better, however, this is unlikely to happen even if the Referendum results in an anti-Euro decision. The communists who have infiltrated our ruling classes will not allow it. These people will never give in.

Patricia (Campana) said:
Sunday, March 3, 2013 @ 8:02 PM

Not unexpected.

I see good ole Alf Garnett is still alive and well....

Phil makes a sensible point.

"Get real UK is a tiny island in the middle of two large unions, who will be our friends if we pick up our bat and ball and walk off in a sulk?? "

"Sulk" is the word, to which I might add "paranoia".

rob said:
Sunday, June 9, 2013 @ 11:04 AM

This is becoming relevant again after Waterford. The real movers and shakers who guide the politicians moves are not going to let Great Britain leave the EU, in fact they want the integration to become closer as the UK is heading towards being a non nett contributor and therefore would use the change to the Euro as a means of downgrading government debt in the same way they use inflation now.

James Ensor said:
Sunday, June 16, 2013 @ 7:04 PM

If Britain should leave the EU in the next few years, it would certainly obtain a Free Trade Agreement along the lines of Switzerland or Norway, both of which voted not to join. Trading patterns would be largely unaffected. The bulk of British exports would continue to be to Europe. Nor would the pound suffer more than a momentary lapse; since few businesses would expect departure to have much impact on their day-to-day operations, Some Japanese, Chinese and US inward investment might be diverted away from the UK, which would be economically harmful.

But the real risk must be that Britain would lose all say in European affairs and the future legislation of the EU. A leading French socialist Michel Rocard blames all the financial problems of the EU including the Euro debacle on two things; the lack of regulation of European financial markets, which he sees as being hindered consistently by Britain; and the lack of leadership in Europe which again he blames on repeated British vetoes on any competent candidate for the European presidency.

These views are widely shared in Germany and much of southern Europe, where Britain but specifically the City is held to blame for the doldrums in which the European economy finds itself. Rocard would like to ban all speculative investment in any products that do not have a physical presence. This would outlaw for instance coffee or copper futures. Whilst it sounds beguiling to those who have not studied how markets operate, such a ban would be a disaster for industry in Europe.

London and the UK economy would survive. Inside the EU Cameron would veto the Directive. Outside, he could lay out a red carpet for banks from Frankfurt and Paris, to move to a free market in London. But surely it is better to have a vote and even a veto over new regulations which must surely affect the UK either adversely or positively as it might turn out than to sit fulminating on the touchline.

chrisgreaves9 said:
Saturday, October 3, 2015 @ 1:04 PM

We was hoping to retire to Spain and in fact we are going to view/buy a villa in the couple of weeks. All this talk about if the UK does leave Europe has us very worried. There has been talk of Spain sending people back to there country of origin.