English MOT and English road tax

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15 Apr 2009 00:00 by samson Star rating in Solihull/Benalmadena. 129 posts Send private message

I have a friend who took his car out of the UK to travel round Europe in June of last year. His MOT and road tax have now expired and he wants to know if he could possibly get an English MOT and tax his car in Gibraltar as at the moment he has no plans to return to the UK.

Or does anyone know of another way he could at least get an english MOT so he can tax the vehicle for his return as he is aware that all this information is now stored on computer. Also does this void his insurance if he has no Tax or MOT? as he seem to think it does.

 

 





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15 Apr 2009 20:50 by Marksfish Star rating in Sandy, Bedfordshire/.... 2408 posts Send private message

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Without an MOT a car is not roadworthy and therefore illegal to use on a public road. Insurance will also be void with no valid test. If he is driving on UK insurance, that will probably already be invalid as cover is usually only given for 30 days driving abroad.

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16 Apr 2009 09:54 by buzylizzie Star rating in Gibraltar, Manilva a.... 194 posts Send private message

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You cannot tax a UK plated car in Gibraltar, even with a valid UK MOT. Gibraltar itself abolished car tax last year and put their petrol prices up instead.

If he wants to get his car legal again and stay on UK plates, your friend has no option but to return it to the UK for it's MOT (probably using a transport company). Once the vehicle actually has an MOT it can be taxed on-line with the DVLA. 

The only other alternative I can think of is to import it into Spain (again at a cost!).

It is true that if the vehicle has no valid MOT or Tax the insurance will not be valid.





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16 Apr 2009 16:25 by foxbat Star rating in Granada. 1109 posts Send private message

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Hi;

Rock and a Hardplace time I'm afraid...

And he might well run into problems trying to retax on line...

You need a UK address for a start; and if the UK address doesn't tie in with the current address shown on the now expired registration documents your friend becomes liable for a fine for non-notification of change of address (max £1000).

Also, about 1 month after the original tax expired he automatically becomes liable for another fine for non-payment...

Re-taxation will not be permitted until all outstanding fines have been paid.

And don't even think about applying for a SORN declaration; even though it doesnt say so anywhere in the rules pertaing to SORN, DVLA wii very quickly point out that SORN rules can only be applied to vehicles physically located in England.

Legally the vehicle cannot be used on Spanish roads as it has no valid UK documentation.

You cannot win against the DVLA bean-counters as I found out. They will be of no help whatsoever.

And Yes his insurance is automatically invalidated when the MOT runs out...

I have been through this myself;my UK reg 33 foot Yank Tank Motorhome broke down whilst we were moving here and finished up on the back of a transporter all the way from San Sebastian to Granada. This cost us over 4000Euros. It sat languishing on a campsite for two years during which time the tax and MOT expired and I was unable to find a specialist M/H Engineer to fix it unless I got a guy over from the UK...

Eventually the M/H was purchased at a much discounted price as a non-runner by a rep for the camp site and is now used as a 'bungalow' on the site.

Under these circumstances your friend has no option but to try for re-registering onto Spanish plates...

Either that or its the Desguace...

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16 Apr 2009 16:40 by samson Star rating in Solihull/Benalmadena. 129 posts Send private message

Thanks for all your replies. I will pass the information on.

It seems a long way for him to drive to UK and back just to get an MOT! he does have a UK address just has not lived there since last june.





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16 Apr 2009 16:47 by morerosado Star rating in Guardamar del Segura.... 7652 posts Send private message

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Samson, the point is he CANNOT legally use his car (no MOT, no Tax, no insurance) so driving back to the UK is NOT an option.



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24 Apr 2009 12:00 by goldwing Star rating in Near Alicante. 63 posts Send private message

 In these circumstances with NO MOT, a UK sorn on car, NO TAX but valid insurance certificate (well on paper only).

 

What would happen if this person had an accident with the car & someone is injured ?

 

As insurance policies also cover medical cost.

 

Who would pick up the bill ?





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24 Apr 2009 13:25 by foxbat Star rating in Granada. 1109 posts Send private message

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As Stated;

SORN is not an option; only being available for vehicles physically located in the UK.

NO MOT equals no insurance; it is automatically voided on expiration of the MOT.

No Road-Tax ditto...

Who Pays? The poor unfortunate bu**er that gets pranged by this illegal character.

In the meantime the driver of the illegal vehicle has his car confiscated / scrapped, his licence withdrawn, and criminal charges brought by Traffico, Civil charges brought by affected third party, sued by the insurers of the third party vehicle...and probably gets locked up and the key thrown away...

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27 Apr 2009 23:08 by alcaidesa Star rating in Beckenham Kent. 34 posts Send private message

The only way to make the car legal again is to have the vehicle transported back to the UK, get permission to drive to the MOT centre and then re- insure and get new tax.

Transportation will cost around £500 or so,



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01 Apr 2010 17:47 by The gunner Star rating in London and Alcossebr.... 5 posts Send private message

I am driving a UK registered car back from Spain to sell it in the UK, but will have to drive it from Dover to London without MOT and tax, as cannot get the MOT and tax until get home to London.  It is currently SORN as been in Spain for 2 yrs.  It is insured in Spain, which also includes 30 days UK driving.  I am concerned about driving from the ferry to London without Tax and MOT, and can't get the tax until I have the MOT.  I have a UK address.





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01 Apr 2010 18:06 by David W Star rating. 192 posts Send private message

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No MOT will not automatically invalidate your insurance for document presentation purposes

And indeed if you were in an accident it would be at the insurers" discretion'' wether your cover was valid

No road tax does not invalidate insurance

The Gunner your problem is you have no UK insurance

So if stopped you would be committing all three offences: No Tax No MOT No Insurance ( i guess technically with only Spainish insurance and no ITV that could be a problem that would be a problem in Spain?)

This is from an insurance underwriter of 30 yrs standing!





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01 Apr 2010 18:10 by The gunner Star rating in London and Alcossebr.... 5 posts Send private message

My Spanish insurance permits me to drive for up to 30 days in the UK.  My problem is that I want to get it MOT'd and taxed when I get it back to the UK, but will not be able to do so until I get the car home from the Channel port, so it is the journey between the Channel and London that I am concerned about





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01 Apr 2010 18:20 by guslopez Star rating in Lorca, Murcia.. 749 posts Send private message

Your Spanish ins. might permit you to drive in the UK ,as long as the car is legal, it isn't. It requires transporting back. The law states that in the event of having no mot the vehicle must be mot'd @ the nearest station to the ferry port witha pre-arranged appointment . Then taxed before it goes on the road. You cannot SORN a vehicle that is not in the UK & if you do & are found out it will be rescinded & full back tax due.



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01 Apr 2010 18:21 by David W Star rating. 192 posts Send private message

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My guess is Spainish insurancecover  would be subject to the appropriate tests and taxes? If not in Spain but almost certainly in the UK

If involved in an accident in the UK without legal tests and taxes i would guess your Spainish insurer would decline cover





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01 Apr 2010 19:18 by Faro Star rating in London. 1156 posts Send private message

The MOT/NCT/ITV has no bearing on whether or not your car is insured but that's not to say it's legal.

Check with your insurance company and see what they say regarding these tests or other certificates of road worthines etc. Many of the Spanish insurance companies insuring UK registered vehicles accept that you can't get an MOT but might then ask for some other proof of road worthiness. So as long as you comply with their requests you are insured and they will honour the terms of the policy.

But that does not mean the Spanish traffic police will not stop or and challenge you for not paying road tax or having a valid MOT etc. and I believe they could confiscate your vehicle or fine you etc. But if they really wanted they could go after all the UK registered cars but they don't only every now and again you hear of someone getting in trouble. I think it has something to do with the police can't be bothered speaking to Brits who suddenly "no habla espanol" or they can only tolerate one a day. Certainly on CDS it's not a major issue!!

I think if travelling back to UK you might be able to withdraw your SORN and then you are permitted to drive your car to a pre-booked MOT at an MOT tesing station. I guess you could argue depending on time of arrival at port London is the most convenient MOT station?

Also you might want to check that your Spanish insurance documentation is acceptable when it comes to taxing vehicle in UK.

 

 





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01 Apr 2010 20:09 by David W Star rating. 192 posts Send private message

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You can only insure a vehicle in the country it's registered in.......Period

 





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01 Apr 2010 22:52 by guslopez Star rating in Lorca, Murcia.. 749 posts Send private message

"I think if travelling back to UK you might be able to withdraw your SORN and then you are permitted to drive your car to a pre-booked MOT at an MOT tesing station. I guess you could argue depending on time of arrival at port London is the most convenient MOT station?"

If you de-register the SORn it has to be taxed immediately,you can't then say that the journey from Spain to the UK , even to a pre-booked mot test is a reason because they will want to know how it got out of the country whilst officially reg. as being 'off-road' in the UK. In addition every camera will pick up the registration plate & issue a ticket to the registered address for no tax as the sorn has been de-registered. Also the vehicle should have been notified to the DVLA as being permanently exported if leaving the UK for more than 12 mths, even if you didn't know it was going to be out that long. I recently had detailed discussions with the DVLA for querys on another site & post here the final reply.

Dear Mr Lopez

Thank you for your email received on 11/3/10. Your email reference number is *********

"European Union (EU) vehicles which are circulating temporarily within or between community Member States are allowed under EC Directive 83/182, to be used on public roads without the need to register or pay duties in the host country. These provisions limit visits to six months in a twelve-month period and the vehicle must comply with the registration and licensing requirements of its home country".

"We cannot comment on the registration and licensing requirements of other licensing authorities. You will need to check the domestic requirements with each individual authority".

I am sorry I cannot be more helpful.

The EC directive is here http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs...nts/com_en.pdf & Section III, B1b1, is the one that applies. This is the reason that they state that a vehicle can only be used in the country as a tourist /everyday work for a max. of 6 mths otherwise you will be classed as a resident. The vehicle has to be taken out of the country, You'll note the line "must comply with the registration & licensing requirements of its home country."

They also stated , on earlier e-mails that you cannot have a SORN reg. vehicle outside of the UK. If it's registered Sorn  In the UK & is then going to be taken out , it has to be de-registered & taxed , or de-registered & permanently exported  & taken out by transporter.



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02 Apr 2010 12:13 by Faro Star rating in London. 1156 posts Send private message

David W - I believe Liberty Seguros are one Spanish insurance company more than happy to insure UK registered vehicles and at the same time accept they are full time on the road in Spain etc.

These forums are full of threads on car topics and the legality of driving UK reg vehicles in Spain.

I always find it amusing people are happy to drive UK cars in Spain every day of the week for 2 -3 years but not 2 - 3 hours on a UK road.

What happens when they get off the boat - how do they then become such law abiding citizens! The same could be said on planning laws. You would not build in England without permission but in Spain it's perfectly normal to buy a plot of rustic land and build a magnificant villa and pool and then plead ignorance!!!!

Guslopez - what happens in the UK when you de-register a SORN? You still have to get the car to a garage to have it MOT'd before you can buy road tax? So presumably that's where the pre-booked MOT appointment comes in to play?

If you ask authorities they always have to give you the official answer but then what happens in practice is the complete opposite, Does anyone actually know of anyone who went this route and if they encountered problems?  I would imagine if you have a pre-booked MOT appointment and actually get the car MOT'd on the first day you drive it in the UK then even if you do get a fine you will have all your paperwork to file an appeal and of course if the appeal fails then return to Spain and hide out for a few years!!

So I would suggest you make sure your car is in perfect road worthy condition to pass its MOT at the nearest MOT station to the boat. But remember an MOT test is tougher than an ITV but easier than the NCT (Ireland).

But please do come back and let us what you decide to do and how you got on etc.





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02 Apr 2010 12:13 by Faro Star rating in London. 1156 posts Send private message

David W - I believe Liberty Seguros are one Spanish insurance company more than happy to insure UK registered vehicles and at the same time accept they are full time on the road in Spain etc.

These forums are full of threads on car topics and the legality of driving UK reg vehicles in Spain.

I always find it amusing people are happy to drive UK cars in Spain every day of the week for 2 -3 years but not 2 - 3 hours on a UK road.

What happens when they get off the boat - how do they then become such law abiding citizens! The same could be said on planning laws. You would not build in England without permission but in Spain it's perfectly normal to buy a plot of rustic land and build a magnificant villa and pool and then plead ignorance!!!!

Guslopez - what happens in the UK when you de-register a SORN? You still have to get the car to a garage to have it MOT'd before you can buy road tax? So presumably that's where the pre-booked MOT appointment comes in to play?

If you ask authorities they always have to give you the official answer but then what happens in practice is the complete opposite, Does anyone actually know of anyone who went this route and if they encountered problems?  I would imagine if you have a pre-booked MOT appointment and actually get the car MOT'd on the first day you drive it in the UK then even if you do get a fine you will have all your paperwork to file an appeal and of course if the appeal fails then return to Spain and hide out for a few years!!

So I would suggest you make sure your car is in perfect road worthy condition to pass its MOT at the nearest MOT station to the boat. But remember an MOT test is tougher than an ITV but easier than the NCT (Ireland).

But please do come back and let us what you decide to do and how you got on etc.





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02 Apr 2010 12:58 by David W Star rating. 192 posts Send private message

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Faro thank you for your reply it is indeed interesting that an Insurance company in Spain covers British registered cars

Pehaps my post, to satisfy scrutiny, should have read UK insrance companies only insure UK registered vehicles





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