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Thursday, March 08, 2007

Roberto
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I remember seeing a post somewhere asking if it was possible to have a model sale contract on the EOS website so that people could compare it with what their developer gives them. I know Justin said he was planning on doing just that, and Maria de Castro also said she was preparing something. I can't for the life of me find where that thread is (even with the new search facility!), but in the meantime, I came across this from the Instituto Nacional del Consumo which I thought may be of help to some. It's in Spanish only of course, and rather long winded, but at least the main clauses can be compared to what other contracts say.

http://www.tuguialegal.com/Vivienda.pdf

I imagine Maria & Justin will come up with something more helpful.


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08 Mar 2007 6:02 PM

Smiley
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BLIMEY YEAH IT IS LONG WINDED - THEN AGAIN BETTER TO COVER ALL THE BASES I GUESS - MY WATCHWORD TO ANYONE IS BETTER TO DO IT RIGHT THAN TO DO IT QUICK - IF YOU CAN COMBINE THE TWO SO MUCH THE BETTER BUT FIRST OPTION ALWAYS BEST - ESPECIALLY HERE IN SPAIN
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08 Mar 2007 7:42 PM

mariadecastro
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 Roberto, the contract you posted here is obviously a perfect model of contract in terms of protection of consumers. I wish the government would  impose somehow a format like that on developers!

The article I prepared and that Justin is about to send to you follows the scheme of that contract ( the one I used as a model was the best it has come to my Law Firm during the last months ) and is in " English" ( well, my english... trying my best). Anyhow, as always, I will be open to questions/ explanations.

I may make another article of FAQ once I received all the queries.

Best,

Maria


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08 Mar 2007 9:40 PM

Roberto
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Thanks Maria, I look forward to seeing your article and contract example.

Assuming that this applies specifically to the purchase of new/off plan property, I wonder if you could also submit a suggested private contract for use when buying re-sale property? In my experience, most estate agents are very remiss in this area. They mainly seem to expect buyers to commit to a deal by paying a holding deposit, but offer little or nothing in return by way of commitment on the part of the seller. No doubt several of our resident agents will have something to say about this! (I'm sure we all welcome your comments!)

I heard an interesting opinion today from my local caffeine dealer, that estate agents are "on the way out", which I'm not sure I agree with, but it is certainly true that more and more people, buyers & sellers alike, are looking to cut out the middle men by dealing direct with each other. I think the Spanish have always preferred to avoid agents if possible, but foreigners also are becoming more confident, with such a wealth of information and help available from sources such as EOS now available to all, so a model for a private contract may be useful too.

Looking forward to the inevitable backlash from this post!


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08 Mar 2007 9:58 PM

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Phew Roberto!!!! Took me 2.5 hours to get my spanglish head around that. It makes me think of the English saying - A camel is a race horse designed by a committee. I have never seen a contract with more pages than the Escritura!!! Still like smiley says "better to cover everything". Now if anyone can think of any eventuality not covered well...just!!!...just ...keep it to yourself....we have to think about the preservation of pine forests too! Or did Roberto cover that in clause 8???
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08 Mar 2007 10:06 PM

Gillespie
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Oh BTW! Having tried to impose my companies contract on several squirming developers without any success whatsoever!! I will not hold my breath for this one. However as Maria says it is the perfect model... in an ideal world... where pink fluffy Polar bears kiss tiny lambs next to a roaring log fire in a chocolate box cottage ....blaaaahh...blaahh blaahhh! But still we must strive for it and as Maria says if the goverment imposed it!!!
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09 Mar 2007 2:29 PM

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I actually have a copy of my off plan contract that I received early 2004 translated into English. I'm certainly not sure if it fits the bill as a Generic Contract but it is 14 pages long and appears to cover most elements! the problem is different developers/lawyers will insert their own clauses to suit but I would think that they all begin with a basic generic document?

  If enough members "say please nicely" I'll try my best to Scan the hard copy and produce a reasonable document that I could email on request or perhaps Justin could place it somewhere on the site for everyone to view...........


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09 Mar 2007 7:24 PM

Roberto
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Gillespie, I do hope you realise I didn't write that contract myself?! (Took me long enough to compose the Horizontal Law, didn't feel like doing an encore). I just happened to come across it, like you do. I didn't even bother reading it, just posted the link, but it's nice to know I caused you to spend 2.5 hours with a dictionary going through it!

I think Miket's idea is good, maybe we could all scan our contracts, and Maria can go through them all and come up with a "best of" compilation?

Any thoughts on the ideal contract for re-sales, anyone?


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13 Mar 2007 1:51 PM

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I will go for the re-sale private contract. Give a week.
M.
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13 Mar 2007 6:50 PM

Roberto
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You're a diamond, Maria!
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13 Mar 2007 9:47 PM

mariadecastro
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I will send it to Justin for the newsletter. Off-plan one already at EYEONSPAIN headquarters.

Best,

Maria


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23 Mar 2007 10:51 AM

jerezgirl
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I´m hopefully going to be buying a resale direct from the seller (touch wood).

I looked at the link in post number one of this thread which is an example of a contract for OFFPLAN propertym (so not my case).

However, I then had a fumble around on that website and found that it has several different types of example contract.  Now I am not sure which contract example fits my case.  I have narrowed it down to either:

"Venta con entrega de arras o señal" or "Venta con entrega de anticipo del precio sin constituir arras o señal".

I don´t really understand the difference between the two.  Which would be better for me, the buyer?

Thanks.




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23 Mar 2007 10:56 AM

jerezgirl
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Oh, and I forgot to ask.  What about a ´standard example´ of a reservation document?  I couldn´t find one on that website, but does anyone know the location of where I could get hold of one?


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23 Mar 2007 3:19 PM

mariadecastro
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Justin is about to send both articles about Off-Plan contracts and resale contracts. I will try to make a model of reservation document/ deposit contract, but, in the meantime, I think you can have some ideas from here:

http://www.eyeonspain.com/spain-magazine/deposit-contract.aspx

 The most important rules for a deposit contract:

- Mention that is a refundable deposit.

- Mention of the bank account and holder where the deposit is till the deadline is met.

- Deadline for the private purchase to be signed or have  the deposit back double folded.

- Clear conditions for refunding.


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23 Mar 2007 3:25 PM

JeansSis
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This message was last edited by JeansSis on 5/17/2007.
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23 Mar 2007 3:29 PM

jerezgirl
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Thank you Maria.

A model reservation document and contract would be an excellent idea for this site.  I hope the EOS team pay you well for all the help you offer its members!!




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23 Mar 2007 6:24 PM

jerezgirl
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I have another quick question - at what point is a Nota Simple created? 

When the developer starts construction? finishes construction? when the LFO is in place? other?????




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23 Mar 2007 8:23 PM

Smiley
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If it is new build then there is already a Nota Simple for the land. If the property is already constructed there should be a Nota Simple for the specific property as the land should have gone through Horizontal Division - in simple terms the apportioning of the original plot to each dwelling on the plot -  although it does not necessarily mean that there is an LFO (prefer FLO but people dont know what I mean). There can be a Nota Simple for the building without an LFO.


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 Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit .....but any form of wit is an achievement

NO MATTER HOW MUCH MONEY YOU HAVE GOT, IF YOU HAVE NOBODY TO SHARE IT WITH, THEN ITS JUST NUMBERS IN THE BANK.

TO ESCAPE CRITICISM DO NOTHING, SAY NOTHING, BE NOTHING!




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24 Mar 2007 6:07 PM

Roberto
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Jerezgirl, Nota Simple, or Copia Simple, is just that - a simplified (abbreviated) version/copy of an official document. Could be of a power of attorney, for example. Obviously in this case you are referring to the Escritura? If this is a resale, presumably the owner has an escritura, or at least the Copia Simple version of it. You should get a copy of this ASAP. With the registry details on this, you (or your lawyer - are you using one?) can obtain from the Land Registry an "informativa" which shows who owns the property and if there are any debts registered against it - at this moment in time. I always insist on getting this before parting with any money at all. You can order it on-line at http://www.registradores.org/principal/indexx.jsp?id_idioma=2&prefijo_idioma=ING

When you sign for the property at the notary, a new Copia Simple will be created at the same time with your details as purchaser, and you will be given a copy to take away with you. The actual escritura will be available some time (weeks?) later.


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24 Mar 2007 6:59 PM

jerezgirl
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Thanks for the replies.  The property I am referring to is at a bit of an inbetween stage.  It has been physically completed by the developer and the Licence of First Occuplation has been applied for but not yet received.  The owner who bought off-plan is trying to delay completion so that he can sell before completion.  I just wasn´t sure in this scenario if there would be a Nota Simple or not yet.  I guess not as the escritura hasnt been done yet?




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