Is EOS a good place for everyone with an interest in Spain ?

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18 Oct 2009 00:00 by LOUISE CECILIA Star rating. 36 posts Send private message

This is the EOS header does it embrace everyone who uses the forum  ?

" Spain's biggest online community! "

" Eye on Spain is a community website for anyone buying a property in Spain, planning to move to Spain or already living in Spain."

Is EOS the right site for anyone who is a victim of Property abuses  ?  What is your experience of the opinions and reception you have received on this site when you post about things going wrong with the purchase of your property  ?

Just curious as according to many on this  forum it has only gone wrong for a  tiny minority and they would prefer if we just went away ! . Why ?             

Would love to hear you views !





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19 Oct 2009 01:20 by meggie Star rating in Lincolnshire. 116 posts Send private message

I, for one, think it's incredibly important that we know about the losses/heartache some people have experienced when buying or trying to buy a property in Spain.  Equally important is knowing how some of those people have coped with being treated so badly by persons they thought they could trust and how they are going about trying to get justice. 

On the face of it, it may only appear that a 'tiny minority' of buyers in Spain have experienced problems with their purchase...but I would like to know just how many people who have bought in Spain have actually experienced NO PROBLEMS AT ALL? My guess would be, not many.

I suppose we could bury our heads in the sand like an Ostrich and close our eyes and ears to information that isn't 'nice' but that wouldn't be very realistic, would it?  And, I wonder just how many people, after having read about  the BAD property-buying experiences as-well-as the GOOD ones...are taking more time to research and consider their dream of buying in Spain rather than rushing in and, possibly, making a mistake.  I know we are!  We haven't bought a property yet in the area we have decided upon, but that doesn't mean we won't ever buy one.  When/if we DO buy, we will have researched every angle that could possible cause a problem before we part with any cash! 

 

 



_______________________

Meggie




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19 Oct 2009 10:14 by goodstich44 Star rating in northampton. 1802 posts Send private message

meggie

some good points there. Sites like this are fantastic source of info'. Had sites like this been available when I bought, I would have have gone in better informed, there's no doubt about that. Having said that I still wouldn't have believed that those at the top of the Spanish property industry (judges/courts/government bodies) would treat people so badly, because apart from the moral side of it, as an EU country I thought they would never get away with it. How wrong I was!

I think your point about how many have had problems is also very real. Many people through pride, denial, or other reasons don't want to admit the problems, so 'make the best of it'  or balance it against the good sides of their purchase. Obviously lots are happy with their lot also and that must be recognised to get a fair look at the situation. I have the greatest respect for those who come on here who are happy with their lot in Spain but are not blinded to the faults and injustice, and so still show sympathy and support to those wronged.

I feel that those cheated just want the support any decent person would give to anyone cheated in any other matter. If that support is given and the situation seen for what it is then fine. The problems start when the few very selfish people come on here and start saying 'we are alright jack' and those cheated are bringing down the 'happy' mood of the forum and should just shut up and go away, or worse still try and deny that things like justice and corruption problems exist, or that the problems are the person cheated's fault!!!. 

So good luck meggie, all the best to you and of course everyone else who's situation in Spain is as they wanted but are big hearted enough to offer support to those wronged . Thanks to site's like this and the mostly honest posters, the pitfalls are far clearer than a few years ago. To those cheated I say 'hang in there', we have right on our side and hopefully with enough support that will be recognised and changes will be made that will benifit the whole Spanish property industry.





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19 Oct 2009 13:20 by ads Star rating. 1586 posts Send private message

Well said Goodstich. Couldn't agree more.

I'd like to add another point regarding lawyers and their moral responsibility in all of this. I would wish that all the "good and responsible lawyers" out there would join forces and start to vociferously voice their opinions to ensure that the obvious requirement for extra resources from government to effect a fair and workable justice system is followed through by tackling the massive court delays that are crippling the justice system. And all the while that these court delays are allowed to continue the risks are heightened as developers declare themselves insolvent to rid themselves of their debts.

It's no good just saying that there are systems in place to claim compensation, when it requires presumably even more monies from the client to effect yet another step on the long road to justice. And even then be in fear of a government who may well turn a blind eye to follow through the law of the land. Lawyers should be looking within, to their own profession and establishing contact themselves with the Ministry of Justice. I would like to see them proactively standing firm together to resolutely rid the system of this disgraceful maladministration, the knock on effects of which are decimating people's lives. Is it any wonder that the finger is being sadly pointed at Spain as a country/government which is not to be trusted in this regard.

As for those kind and happy folk in Spain I, like Good stich,  would hope that they too will stand behind all those who are struggling with the realities and look forward to a future where, should they ever need, they can rely upon a decent and fair system of justice.

Yes EOS is hopefully a good place for everyone with an interest in Spain, especially if it allows everyone to communicate their knowledge to good effect, to assist one another, while at the same time allowing members, where necessary, the right to address some painful truths.

 



This message was last edited by ads on 19/10/2009.



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19 Oct 2009 14:13 by goodstich44 Star rating in northampton. 1802 posts Send private message

ads

with regards to lawyers, yes indeed they could do much to improve the current situation.  Our case like many others depended on the courts coming to a decision in a reasonable time, say a few months maximum rather than years!!  I constantly voiced concern to my lawyer all through the 2 years+ delay about the fact the developer would go under very soon and that's what happened. I'm not blaming the lawyer, I think his hands were tied by the courts and the limited resources given to them to get through a huge backlog of cases in a reasonable time, however I feel it's up to lawyers as a body to apply pressure on those who can make the changes needed to make a 'won' case worthwhile and not just a worthless moral victory, but are the lawyers that bothered, and do they think they should be, or is it  a case of  ''well we did our job''.

I have said to my lawyer since winning our case that surely we have a strong case against the courts for the unnaceptable delay that ruined our chance of justice, and he said yes you have a case, but the chance of winning against the very justice system itself is unlikely.

So, we fought for over 7 years, won our very strong case, still didn't get justice, and still haven't get compensation from those who owe us our life savings through their incompetance in dealing with our case in a reasonable time frame!!...............but the lawyers still get their money for winning our case, and so will the judge!!!!

 


 



This message was last edited by goodstich44 on 19/10/2009.



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19 Oct 2009 14:45 by Chimps Star rating. 130 posts Send private message

 

Hello  Louise
 
In answer to what E.O.S represents
 
My view is that its without doubt the leading website and media centre for those with interest or intending to have interests in Spain.
To attract posters it has to reflect all aspects of Spain itself and to hopefully put in a complete and unbiased views of thousands of people.
Facts are facts that those content with their lot in Spain far outweigh those with problems and accordingly this must be reflected in the percentage of view those that post.
Now please correct me of I am wrong but unless I am mistaken I can’t recall one person that would not agree how badly some have been treated.
I can’t recall anyone that would not wish those with problems to have them resolved.
I can’t recall anyone that is genuine would not wish to condemn the corruption, the legal system and all it stands for.
Personally I can’t see many of the I am all right Jacks as they too are aware that unless this whole abuse is sorted then they to are in the same boat.
What I do feel is that the tables should be turned here and instead of the minority of  those with severe problems pushing away the majority they welcome those that would help given half a chance.
Dont think anyone should wish anyone should go away but I dont think that many do.
Some just seem to want their voice heard and good luck to them but dont expect everyone to read the same ole drum day after day
This regurgitation of the same message at times gets very tiresome as the majority know that if they were to accept unconditional support, open the doors then they may not be at standstill as they are now and always will be.
Little wonder at times that you feel that we are not supportive and some may wish you to go away and suggest you only have yourselves to blame in this matter.
Now you did ask for opinions and thats mine.
 

 





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19 Oct 2009 15:22 by ads Star rating. 1586 posts Send private message

EOS is a great medium for identifying facts about Spain and educating us all (within the specific subject matter threads), whether good or bad factual content. It's the factual debate and information gathering that follows on from this that helps most people to form their own conclusions. But also EOS, where necessary, could be a very powerful means of bringing people together, to act as a lobby group. But only if they are willing to do so based on the facts presented.

 

 

 

 





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19 Oct 2009 15:56 by goodstich44 Star rating in northampton. 1802 posts Send private message

ads

very true. The changes required to benifit those most wronged are mostly common sense right and wrong issues that would benifit everyone involved with the Spanish property industry. Until those not directly effected realise this and do whatever they can to force change, then justice and the whole recovery will probably be held back for far longer?. Thankfully, as the truth about how bad things are for many is increasingly reported,  I think far more people are voicing their support for those wronged than was the case on EOS previously, and thankfully the selfish so and so's have mostly gone away.  If the voice of support can be increased in numbers and turned in to action by whatever means possible, then I believe we will be heard, hopefully sooner rather than later!


 



This message was last edited by goodstich44 on 19/10/2009.



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19 Oct 2009 16:42 by Chimps Star rating. 130 posts Send private message

 ads

100% correct that E.O.S also is a very powerful media on helping to bring about change so lets take full advantage of that.

Goodstich 44  .Yes thankfully some of the selfish ones have gone so perhaps we now have an opportunity to welcome everyone that wishes to support a lobby group as suggested by ads.

Suzie has done wonderful job and am sure she would welcome any further support

Others may wish get to the problems from a different angle.

Perhaps if it can be seen that the same record heard most days which is boring many senseless having read it a million times before is now turning many off the better it may be.

Perhaps instead put into some real combined effort for change then those like Louise would never feel like anyone wants someone out of the way. It perhaps needs to be kept to specific threads like the once excellent Fight For Justice thread started by Goodsitch 44 . Then anyone that doesnt want to support can give it a miss. Those that may be smug will no doupt feel less than welcome and indeed may wish to post on a more positive thread

The bottom line is that if change is really wanted then do someting about it. Stop Moaning. We are in reality in the same boat here.

 





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19 Oct 2009 17:17 by ads Star rating. 1586 posts Send private message

The same record observation and the same old drum day after day comments do a disservice to those who are presenting facts  (including highlighting Suzie's petition etc alongside other relevant updates as case circumstances change) to several threads relevant to the subject matter, which in many people's eyes is "doing something about it". As uncomfortable as it may appear, this is the only way to keep attention focused on a very real and grave problem that won't go away unless we all come together.

Perpetuating a message of "move away from the subject" or "stick to one thread only" is divisive and will never achieve progress. We all have the right to communicate a message so long as it is relevant to the subject matter in hand. I think you will find that the subject of failure of justice crosses many boundaries associated with Spain (and therefore is relevant to many EOS threads but certainly not all).

This in itself is proof that there is an increasing need for EOS members to join together and become a powerful and effective lobby group. Dividing people up into separate camps will only weaken the group which I trust everyone recognises will benefit only a few.





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19 Oct 2009 17:48 by goodstich44 Star rating in northampton. 1802 posts Send private message

ads

yes, well put.  To those bored or not really interested in justice for those wronged, then there are other threads.





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19 Oct 2009 18:54 by Chimps Star rating. 130 posts Send private message

 

Yes thats true Goodstich44 and just as I have suggested. If somone are not interested then they can always use oither threads

ads

You have hardly progressed very far as I see it and with respect Suzie has done more than everyone put together.

Please suggest how everyone is going to come together as the way I see it that it amounts to about 10 people,

I suggest one camp and one forum.You the say thats just going to dilute everyone and blast the idea. You then say there is no point in dividing people up in into different camps as its useless.

Rule 1 in setting out the rules to move forward. Make some rules

I am sure that even E.O S may just welcome a united front in this matter and it would be their concern if they wish to allow threads to be hijacked banging on about issues that some simply dont care about.

Those like Louise could then see that The E.O.S really is for everyone involved in Spain and not the minoirty so that he/she is being made to feel unwelcome.

Invite all other threads to join in a united fight in a thread and I am confident that minority and the majority would willingly support.

Then maybe you would have just what you are trying to get and thats E.O.S members joining together on this one subject.

We can put up a very good fight but in the end Spain will soon feel that through their actions they will end up with one real bloody nose soon

 

 





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19 Oct 2009 19:45 by ads Star rating. 1586 posts Send private message

My point exactly, everyone affected should join Suzie's petition and write to their MEP and those MEP's that supported  the Auken report. No way would I (or pesumably others) want to detract from Suzie's efforts to date. She is a star and should be sincerely thanked and supported in her efforts to date.

What several are doing through postings on EOS is bringing attention to the injustices, the petition, and keeping folk posted of any specific case updates or relevant info we pick up along the way. And we're asking ongoing questions of lawyers so as to try and comprehend alternative legal strategies in the interim. And trying to motivate those in the legal profession along the way to push for change. One observation of Maria's quite some time back suggested that she was pleased to observe consumer change was finally being effected by the actions of consumers themselves. Not completely a waste of effort then.......

 

 

 

 



This message was last edited by ads on 19/10/2009.



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19 Oct 2009 20:38 by Chimps Star rating. 130 posts Send private message

 ads

Indeed not a waste of time I just feel that the more we get doing the same the better.

Just feel it would better to try to gain support and not have it shoved down peoples throats.
 



This message was last edited by Chimps on 19/10/2009.



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19 Oct 2009 21:41 by ads Star rating. 1586 posts Send private message

I think your definition of shoving down people's throats might be perceived by others as addressing subject matters that makes for uncomfortable reading.

Each to their own.

Whatever one's take on this, the fact is that EOS is a good place for everyone with an interest in Spain so long as their intentions are honourable.

 



This message was last edited by ads on 19/10/2009.



This message was last edited by ads on 19/10/2009.



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