What are your thoughts on Spain's economic crisis?

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25 Sep 2012 19:37 by eggcup Star rating. 576 posts Send private message

We just happened to look at the TV channel, 'Russia Today,' and saw a big riot going on in the centre of Madrid, with riot police etc.  Has anybody been following how this is panning out nationally?  And where does everyone think this is going to lead?



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25 Sep 2012 19:49 by gerrryuk Star rating in Sedella Axarquia lat.... 185 posts Send private message

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 Greece will fail to reach their austerity target by billions next month so will not get the promised next bail out instalment forcing bankruptcy so leaving the Euro.

Causing untold damage it will frighten everyone to death especially Spain as they to need to tighten their belts even more because the Spanish measures are not reaching their targets. They could be next with the pack of cards then collapsing.

I would love to be wrong but MY OPINION thinks not.

 

 


This message was last edited by gerrryuk on 25/09/2012.

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25 Sep 2012 20:03 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 3431 posts Send private message

I read this today:-

The coming week is crucial for Spain:

On Thursday the State Budget for 2013 will be presented and we will learn which of the ‘strict conditions have already been accepted.  Spain will be forced to cut an additional 40,000 million euro.  

One day later comes the so called Wyman-report on how many millions must be borrowed to keep the banking system afloat

I think that demonstrating against the inevitable is a waste of time, and that when Rajoy finally has to admit that Spain needs a rescue, the populace will really need to tighten their belts.  

Spain I believe is in deep trouble and the Government have been papering over the cracks;   their time for covering up is coming to an end.

 



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25 Sep 2012 20:10 by Pitby Star rating in Andalucía. 1921 posts Send private message

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 I haven't heard of any riots in Madrid today - there was something three days ago, teenages rioting at a music festival.  Was this old news?  Not that there haven't been (and are sure to be more) riots against the austerity measures that Spain must take.  But not sure that what the original poster saw was news of today's events.



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25 Sep 2012 20:12 by gerrryuk Star rating in Sedella Axarquia lat.... 185 posts Send private message

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 That's very sad. I hate to see Spain in this mess. But I would have thought debt was in the billions.

 


This message was last edited by gerrryuk on 25/09/2012.

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25 Sep 2012 20:15 by Roly2 Star rating in Almeria. 503 posts Send private message

 No sadly - it is today.  It is a march which has become a bit more than a march but not what I would call a riot.  Let's hope it does not develop.





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25 Sep 2012 20:47 by Pitby Star rating in Andalucía. 1921 posts Send private message

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 Yes, read of the march in Madrid - hopefully it won't escalate to a full scale riot though.  



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25 Sep 2012 21:09 by eggcup Star rating. 576 posts Send private message

I don't know if the link below will work for everyone - it shows what's been going on today:

http://elpais.com/elpais/2012/09/17/videos/1347870347_245504.html?autoplay=1

Also this one, showing the news earlier this evening:
 

http://www.rtve.es/noticias/directo-la-1/


This message was last edited by eggcup on 25/09/2012.


This message was last edited by eggcup on 25/09/2012.

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25 Sep 2012 23:23 by foxbat Star rating in Granada. 1134 posts Send private message

26 Sep 2012 00:11 by mac75 Star rating in Valencia. 394 posts Send private message

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 Well I can assure you all it hasn't even started yet. people are absolutely desperate. Many can't even buy food, the charitable food banks are overwhelmed and for a first world country it is becoming increasingly worrying and quite unbelievable. Many have no dole, no subsidies, absolutely nothing. Pure desperation. It is heartbreaking to see what is happening here and everyone is being effected some way or another.

But the worst is still to come. God knows where Spain will end up, unemployment through the roof and no money for social benefits.

Make for a dangerous cocktail. I know people who are lucky enough to receive social benefits but haven't been paid for four months as the government doesn't have sufficient money to pay everyone and are staggering the payments! The march today is a sign of anxiety and desperation, thousands of families do not know how they are going to feed their children! It is a reality that many find hard to believe and it is exactly that a reality. 

 

 


This message was last edited by mac75 on 26/09/2012.

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26 Sep 2012 00:27 by eggcup Star rating. 576 posts Send private message

Yes, you're quite right Mac.  My husband just came back from Spain (we're in the UK now) and read that people were marching in the streets in Andalucia, protesting because they had not been paid by the Junta, which owes many millions/billions of euros and because they're not paying their bills, loads of companies are going bust.  This includes pharmacies, training companies, building firms etc.  Ayuntamientos are also not paying their staff - although this has been going on for a long time.  Even before the crisis, we knew people who would work for building companies for months on end, without getting a wage.  They would be so desperate that they would carry on month after month in the hope that they would get paid.  All this time, they would be leaving the house early, getting home late, using their petrol to get to the job which might be an hour's drive away, making themselves unavailable for any other little jobs that might have come their way, paying for their lunch and then, apart from not receiving the money that was their moral right to receive, they would feel humiliated and emasculated, giving up after maybe three months of having not received a penny.  Spanish people sometimes have too much patience, are not in a rush to be paid and give people a lot of leeway; but if you've got nothing else lined up, what do you do?



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26 Sep 2012 06:11 by Harry07 Star rating. 209 posts Send private message

Thanks Mac,

That all sounds quite grim !!

I am well across the economic situation in Spain but had not grasped that things were quite so desperate on the ground.

Regardless, my impression (rightly or wrongly) is that expats are not being indirectly targetted in any meaningful sense ?

Cheers,

Harry





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26 Sep 2012 09:41 by eggcup Star rating. 576 posts Send private message

They showed the clashes in Neptune Square, Madrid on Euronews and the report stated that 32 people, including four police officers were injured (according to the Spanish press, 60 were injured) and we saw police firing rubber bullets and police whacking protesters with their batons and some protesters taking flying kicks at police officers.  I don't know if the current protests are restricted to Madrid; in the past there have also been protests in other big cities. 

In terms of expats' lives, I'm not aware of anything specific.  I think expats should try and be very sensitive about what is happening to people's lives all around them.  In other countries if this all led to massive civil unrest and revolution (before anyone accuses me of sensationalism, I'm not saying that is going to happen - like everyone else, I've got no idea where this is all leading), then expats might have worried about having their assets seized.  I see no reason why this would ever happen; why would the Government or people want expats' houses, when there is a massive oversupply and lots of empty houses already? 

One would expect an increase in crimes such as burglary and theft, though, if people don't have money to put food on the table... I don't know if there has already been such an increase or not...  I would imagine the biggest problems will be in the cities.  It's all just speculation, though.



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26 Sep 2012 10:28 by jaldridge Star rating in Manilva. 4827 posts Send private message

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It's all a terrible mess at the moment and it can only get worse.  People are still continuing to lose their jobs, the cost of living goes up by the day and economic growth is going to be alien to Spain for at least a decade.

Auesterity is not the way to go.  Money needs to be ploughed into new projects that will create jobs, get people paying taxes and spending money again.  Without it more businesses will go bust, more people will struggle and I can't see at what point it's going to turn.

It is all very worrying at the moment and I don't think Rajoy is the man to fix it.  He seems to bury his head in the sand most of the time and confidence in him is rock bottom.

This country needs money desperately but money that's going to be used to create employment, not to keep the banks afloat.

And eggcup you are totally right.  Crime is up, burglaries are up, people are getting desperate.  Someone even stole from the local church here last month and on the same night someone emptied a local bar which is opposite the police station.

Hold on tight, we're in for a very rough ride yet.



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26 Sep 2012 11:34 by wodger Star rating. 25 posts Send private message

 Economic problems seem to be Europe wide. On British TV last night a spokesman ( Danny Alexander ) said that Social benifits take up one third of the budget & will need to be trimmed as savings can't be made wholey from other sectors .Looks like bus passes, & winter fuel payments will be the first to go, although these reductions will only save a very small percentage of the sum required. Cameron said that  workers paying taxes for peoples benifits are not receiving pay rises, & therefore it is only right that people on benifits should also take their share of the pain, & not expect annual increases.





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26 Sep 2012 12:26 by gerrryuk Star rating in Sedella Axarquia lat.... 185 posts Send private message

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 And Spain is not as bad as Greece, very very worrying.

We do live in a shelterd isle in the United Kingdom.

Desperate times.

 



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26 Sep 2012 12:28 by Harry07 Star rating. 209 posts Send private message

If  things get a lot worse I don't  expect this might become a contributory factor determining some expats decision to leave ???

Harry

 





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26 Sep 2012 12:37 by jaldridge Star rating in Manilva. 4827 posts Send private message

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Harry, many expats have already left and many I know are struggling badly.  Many expats on the coast where we are have been saved by Gibraltar where there are many jobs with the online gaming companies.

If it wasn't for the big rock I'm sure we would have lost the majority of expats here already.

What surprised me recently was the number of boarded up shops in Marbella, an area which you would think would be more immune to economic pressures due to the amount of money circulating in that area, but even "Marbs" is having a tough time of it.

And then I heard recently that the huge port and cruise terminal which was to be built in Marbella by a wealthy Arab is no longer going ahead over a dispute over taxes and other things.  This same person is the owner of Malaga football club and he's been totally put off investing any more money in the area, including the football club.  The port would have created jobs and brought a lot more tourists to the area but now that's gone.

I just can't see at what point things are going to start turning around.

Other areas are suffering badly too.  Valencia for example has no money and most pharmacies can no longer afford to dispense medicines as the government isn't paying them.  They are owed millions.

Scary times.



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26 Sep 2012 12:44 by foxbat Star rating in Granada. 1134 posts Send private message

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Danny Alexander... yet another oxygen thief who it would appear, has never done a stroke of proper work in his life, like so many others in this and in the previous administration.

As Justin so rightly said  AUSTERITY IS NOT THE SOLUTION. to the problems faced by the UK Spain, Greece or anywhere else.

Said it before and its worth repeating...

"Politics is the business of getting power and privilege without possessing merit"—P J O'Rourke

"Anyone who wishes to become a politician should automatically be banned from becoming one" - Billy Connolly

"Politicians are like seagulls. They arrive from out of nowhere in a fluster, squawking, sticking their beaks in.... crapping all over everything and then flying off leaving a mess."

"Politicians are like nappies / diapers...They should be changed frequently, and for the same reason."

Back on thread...I have no particular liking for Madrid's former leader Esperanza Aguirre but it seems she quit at exactly the right moment. She must have foreseen the events of yesterday and those to come. Dont know if Rajoy has his head in the sand or up his ownass; either way its pretty dark in there.

How about a vote of no confidence...

Ah, but hang on a minute the only real opposition is the PSOE... just as in the UK where the only oppostion is Labour...

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26 Sep 2012 12:53 by Harry07 Star rating. 209 posts Send private message

Well thats very  interesting & I am sure what you are saying is correct.

I was under the misguided impression that retired expats were packing up primarily because of financial losses in GFC, inability to run holiday homes etc - as opposed to de facto situation in Spain. So, based on comments below,  there is also now a possibility that civil unrest might become a factor at some stage !

Feel terribly sorry for the Spanish - they deserve much better !!

Regards,

Harry





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