EU Citizens, Passports, and JSA

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07 May 2012 16:27 by foxbat Star rating in Granada. 1119 posts Send private message

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Guy T ...from the other thread about the EU Register

You raise a very good point, but unfortunately its true...

My daughter in law took time out to raise her and hubby's child and has been drawing JSA whilst looking for work now that the child is in school. When my OH had a bad fall out here last year and was hospitalised in Granada with a busted hip, my daughter in law raised the question with her mentor at the Job Centre about the rules pertaining to new passport applications because she was anxious to come over here and help out;. she was informed quite pointedly that quote "there was little or no point because she's drawing JSA and would almost certainly fail the interview because of this..."

Cant have people on government benefits swanning off to Spain.... this despite the fact that we would have been responsible for all her expenses.

Now, its quite possible that her mentor was having a bad day, because my understanding is that in theory, UK JSA is payable over here for a short period if the job-seeker is actively looking for work... either way it seems to show that there is collusion between the various government departments.But as is quite common practice over in the UK these days, one government department will tell you one thing and another department something completely different

 

How one is supposed to look for work outside of the UK without a passport...well who knows!
 



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07 May 2012 18:24 by Poppyseed Star rating. 886 posts Send private message

I don't think there is collusion between departments, in fact that is the problem, one dept doesn't haven't have a clue how the other works or the rules etc.

From direct.gov website

Jobseeker's Allowance

Information about contribution-based and income-based Jobseeker's Allowance (JSA) if you are moving or living abroad.

Contribution-based JSA

You cannot usually get contribution-based JSA outside the EEA. However, you may be able to get contribution-based JSA in the EEA for up to three months if you:

  • are entitled to contribution-based JSA on the day you go abroad
  • have registered as a jobseeker for at least four weeks before you leave
  • are available for work and actively seeking work in Great Britain up to the day you leave
  • are going abroad to look for work
  • register for work at the equivalent of a Jobcentre in the country you are going to
  • comply with the other country's rules on registering and looking for work

Income-based JSA

If you are going abroad permanently you cannot get income-based JSA.

You cannot usually get income-based JSA if your stay abroad is only temporary.

Check with your local Jobcentre office if you need to fill in any forms before you go abroad.


 


This message was last edited by Poppyseed on 07/05/2012.

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07 May 2012 19:02 by foxbat Star rating in Granada. 1119 posts Send private message

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...but if another Government Agency decides, apparently of its own volition, not to Issue 1st passports to those who wish to travel abroad or makes it a ruling that the receipt of JSA is a factor in their being able to reject passport applications, kind of makes a mockery of the whole thing. Why else would they ask the question "what is your National Insurance number, if not to check your employment status?

This whole thing smacks so much of Big Brother; I sometimes think that UK bureaucracy is far worse than the Spanish.

My D-I-L's case was starightforward and compassionate; she knows that my OH and I are very hard pressed trying to cope with 9 abandonados; its a two person job 24/7, but the civil servants involved just couldnt give a toss. (One could add and why should they? They already have jobs...)

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07 May 2012 19:45 by Poppyseed Star rating. 886 posts Send private message

Foxbat, your daughter-in-law's claim for JSA would have no impact on a passport application. A National Insurance number is in effect a UK ID number and most government departments ask for this. It will be used to check whether any other applications have been made using that number as believe it or not people who are not entitled to an NI number do steal other people's for fraudlent means. I do not know if the Passport Agency and DWP computer systems are now linked in any way but certainly up to a couple of years ago I can say categorically they weren't. I think an ill informed comment by a member of Jobcentre staff has been exaggerated and would advise you to forget it as it is nonsense. Did your daughter-in-law make any enquiries with Passport Agency?



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07 May 2012 20:39 by foxbat Star rating in Granada. 1119 posts Send private message

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Don't know!

Like most people who are faced with the bureaucratic Job Centre (or should that be Jobsworth Centre) staff and the fortnightly interviews where one is required to produce vast quantities of documentary evidence of 'actively seeking work' she probably took them at their word... certainly she was put off enough not to bother taking the application further. You dont antagonise these people... they might just forget to tick the box on their computer that acknowledges the fact that you reported on time, in which case you dont get paid. (and yes that does happen...).

Me being the total cynic when it comes to anything to do with UK rules and regulations would have pushed the matter further and said "Show me where it says this..." but I've got a lot more years under my belt than she has...

 



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08 May 2012 12:39 by Poppyseed Star rating. 886 posts Send private message

Well with 30 odd years in the civil service I can honestly say I never knew anyone to do anything like that deliberately. I know there are some (well plenty really!) muppets who may through incompetence screw up, over the last 10 years or so they have removed the requirement for entry qualifications so you can guess the result. It used drive us old hands just as mad because it made our job harder and we usually had to pick up the pieces. Add to that the lack of senior managers with any skills except empire building on very shaky foundations and you've a potent mix for disaster..........!



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16 May 2012 09:43 by summer70 Star rating in Granada. 92 posts Send private message

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To clarify all of this.
The D-I-L in question is my Daughter.

She was, indeed, told that it would be a waste of her time applying for a First Passport so that she could come to Spain to help us out for a couple of weeks.

However, the advisor she spoke to was referring to the fact that she should be available for work in the UK and prove this by applying for suitable vacancies (she had a set number of applications she was expected to do each week and checks are made on this).
The advisor was referring to my daughters contract under JSA rules, but applying these terms without giving my daughter details of the rules quoted by Poppyseed above.

As Foxbat said, you do not antagonise your JSA advisor. My daughter had already had her benefit temporarily suspended because she had been unable to apply for one of the jobs on her list (it was a mix up - her travelling criteria, as a Mum with a child to be picked up from school, specified a 20 mile travelling to work radius, but the job in question was 50 miles away).  This was sorted out after several phone calls, two more interviews, and a great deal of worry, but after that, she was naturally wary of questioning her Advisor's 'advice'.

As an aside, things are not all dire on JSA.
My daughter has very specific circumstances, which make it difficult for her to find work, even though she is highly qualified.
However, her new advisor is helping her with plans for a small business, which she can legally set up and begin working on while claiming JSA.
She's very excited about this as it means she will soon be working again and eventually (fingers crossed) running a business in her own right for which she is very well qualified.



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