Serious Legal Problems

We need help, several pensioners bought land in Almeria from an estate agent, we were all assured the land had planning permission to errect dwellings and foolishly we agreed to use the same abogada.   The abogada charged us exceptionally high fees, foolishly we did not ask for a quote and to give an example one person paid 12,500 euro for conveyancing and another 9500 euro, two are too ashamed to admit what they paid him.   We have all been denounced, we all went to the abogada and he charged each dwelling 300 euro per dwelling the write the same leter to the town hall.    The abogada did not tell any of us we had bought land with permission for a NAVE, we learned this in the middle of constructing our villas, then the lawyer announced that those near the ramblica would never be legal and it is likely the houses can be demolished.   The lawyer said Spain changed the law in respect of the proximity to the of the property to the ramblica! 

The Estate Agent went into liquidation, however we are in touch with a couple who worked for the estate agents who can vouch what was said to us.   Tow of the men have died from heart attacks as a result of the stress.

One person was told if they paid for a habliation licence one could be issued.

Some of us want to come home and cannot do so because we have spent all our money, we are also living in the lane where raw sewage passes our villas.  

Can anyone advise, please

HI,

Ask the abagoda for a breakdown of all fees paid ? I think you all should club together and engage another lawyer who has a good reputation anf find out what has gone on here.

Maybe Maria may well see your post and respond.

I´ve been thinking about this alot, because it seems that it could all have been avoided at so many points. When you say you bought the land from an estate agent, do you mean "through" an estate agent or that the agent was infact the owner of the land?Did anyone finance their purchase through a bank? Did no-one´s bank ask for any guarantees, planning permissions etc? The builders that built the houses, didn´t they ask if permission had been granted for residential dwellings? We needed a permit for minor works just to install an outhouse for our gas boiler, it was our responsibilty to obtain that before the builder would start.

Are none of the buyers Spanish? This abogado that you used, can you not start by contacting his "colegio de abogados", it´s evident that you´ve all been atrociously advised and fenomenally over-charged. As Goldie says you´re really going to have to get another lawyer in but having no idea what you´ve signed I wouldn´t begin to speculate on your chances of getting money back.

I´m not 100% sure on whether permits can be granted retrospectively in your area. They can be here, but it is expensive. The original architects drawings need to be presented, stamped by the relevant "colegio de arquitectos", and then things like foundation depth, wiring etc that should have been signed off as the property was being constructed have to be done afterwards which of course isn´t cheap.

Who have you all been denounced by? The Town Hall for having illegal builds? Or someone else? It´s a thoroughly crap situation for all of you, my sympathies. Can you not try and talk with the local mayor, find out if any agreement can be reached? Failing that, set up a plataforma and get as much publicity as you can to highlight the situation.

Dear Goldie and Orinoco

Thank you both for taking the time to respond it is appreciated and the people I am helping have asked me to say a big thank you, they are all grateful and have asked me to tell you both.

Goldie: I am hoping Maria will provide some advice if she sees this help notice.   The problem is these people cannot instruct a lawyer because non of them have any money to give, in addtion to having been robbed big time by their lawyer they have all suffered financially as a resut of the banking crisis they all lost on their investments plus their UK pension returns far less euros these days, as we all know.

Orinoco, I am sorry I failed to tell you they all bought through as estate agent, thinking they would be safe because they claimed to have the right documentation to protect the buyer.   They all sold up in the  UK and because of their ages they knew they would never get a mortgage, they all paid cash from the proceeds of their house sales UK, thus why no banks were involved.

I have tried tracing the Estate Agent owners without success.   I have checked one of the escrituras, there are no architect plans, no copies of cheque payments, no confirmation of water and electric contracts and no copies of their passport, there is no evidence of tax due or paid.   The firm of lawyers who robbed them assigned  two of their abogados for seller of land and buyer of land, the abogados did not tell them.    The builder - he was introduced by the estate agent who sold them the land offering to build the dwellings of their choice and this was a great opportunity, they remained at home in the UK with family whilst their dream home was completed, the builder provided a contract and he was paid in stages, they do not have any huge problems with the work he provided.    The estate agents told the buyers they would ensure all the correct legal paper work was provided and given none of them speak Spanish this they all thought was a godsend.  The builder did charge VAT,  his NIA number is on his bill, for some unknown reason I think the tax they paid ought to be checked at the Tax Offfice, anyone know how I do this,  because if I can prove this was not paid to them it could help, the builder still resides in the town.

Going to see the mayor - I agree that would be a great solution, however I  heard someone bought a habitation licence from the town hall, I do not think that would help, the solicitor charged each buyer the architect fees, which I found very odd, he charged licence fees etc too, therefore it's obvious the builder, lawyer architect and town hall had a good little number going.   To top it all two or 3 of them are built on protected land, one of them is the owner who bought his habitation licence from the town hall!   He did not realise he was buying it illegally he really thought he had to pay it direct to them when his son asked if he had a habitation licence.

Today one of the owners forwarded me a copy of a fax sent from the abogado in 2004  stating his house would not be demolished and that it is legal and the fact it is on protected land is not important , he went on to say  the town hall can not demolish the house, he sent this in 2004.   I thought after the Gill case on the Costa Del Sol  they passed a law about corruption!

As mentioned they have all been denounced by the town hall for illegal builds

If anyone can help further these English pensioners would appreciate all the help they can get PLEASE

HI Navidad,

If you go to a lawyer they normally give half to an hour free consaltation, if these pensioners are paying rates to the town hall i would stop this as they could divert the funds to another lawyer who could shed some light as to whats gone on here this needs to be sorted asap.

Sorry to say but unless they instruct a lawer  the pensioners will not get very far

What a complete mess. My wife is the local concejal for both urbanismo and hacienda where we live and she´s going to find out what she can next week for you from our Mayor, the Secretary and the architect because it all sounds so wrong. (Architect only comes on Friday´s though, sorry about that, but maybe in the meantime Maria might give you some solid advice) We´re in a completely different part of Spain to your pensioners so you´ll have to allow for regional differences. 

She wants to know if any of you have denounced any of the players; estate agent / lawyers etc. She says you should start by contacting these people:

Oficina Municipal de Informacion Al Consumidor - OMIC 

Plaza Constitución, 1, 04740 Roquetas de Mar950 33 85 52

They´re like a state consumer protection organisation and they´re free. I mentioned before the colegio de abogados, you should contact them as well:

http://www.icaalmeria.com/

If Spanish is a problem she is happy to translate stuff for you.

Oh Dear,

can anything be done to bring the lawyer to task?

Faro has little faith in the supposed self regulation system there.

The Priors are still living in their garage but demolitions seem to have been halted, perhaps thay will be stopped altogether with some sort of amnesty.

Any sort of rescue fund for legal work would have to be huge with the usual zero certainty.

You need the best brains to come forward.

Hope you win.

Regards

Norman

 Sorry  Norman the best brains have all had enough and retired and training to be rocket scientists and brain surgeons it will be much easier

Appears a bit unreal  !!!

"The problem is these people cannot instruct a lawyer because non of them have any money to give, in addtion to having been robbed big time by their lawyer they have all suffered financially as a resut of the banking crisis they all lost on their investments"

Dear All,

Bri says they are fibbers Jon says they are unreal

so not much sympathy there then

I know just the man to find out........Johnzx could easily get to the bottom of it....with his knowledge experience and contacts it would be a doddle.

Get to it John.

Regards

Norman

 Don't trivialise posts Normansands please.  I did not say they were fibbers, I merely wonder if it is another wind up.  I am honestly not sure I do actually sympathise with this case if it is genuine - I cannot imagine that anyone would be so naive to carry on in this way.   

Brian,

Suggest not to waste time on this wind-up nonsense.

Cheers,

Jon

Fully agree with you, Brian and Jon07.

Wind-ups come in all forms.

Patricia

Dear All,

were I a fraudster on any scale at all, let alone this size I would not think it trivial to have Johnzx investigating me, no sir.

In fact if asked to contribute to a fighting fund for these unfortunates I would be far more likely to offer towards his expenses than to employ another lawyer of uncertain reputation..............read the book "lawyers can seriously damage your health" .

at least Orinoco has been prompted to do something, but the silly spinners can't wait for his results they just can't wait to put the boot in, what a shower.

Regards

Norman

 Having read through this thread the last few posts make me think this thread is based on The Wizard of Oz.

First the house is blown away and Dorothy finds herself in some strange land.

She meets three heros, the scarecrow the lion and the tin man, who offer to help her in her quest to find the mysterious wizard of Oz.

The  valiant four march forth facing numerous paroblems and challenges.

The only differenze is that Oz was found whilst this one, if the money mentioned is true, is probably enjoying life in some country with no extradition treaties. He may even be following the thread on EOS over drinks.

Lol. As analogies go SMYTHIE, that´s right up there.

 I might look at a few more threads maybe there are more films out there

speaking of which did you ever see Brazil it was a satire directed by the guy who directed monty Python

if not follow the link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil_(film)

I checked "Brazil" on wiki and I really don´t think I´ve seen it. Which is odd, because I´m quite a DeNiro fan. (I sat through 5 hours of !900).

I will check it out.

 in brazil it took me a while to work out who was de niro he played a brill parody of himself

O think I just spotted Yellow Submarine seen you on there perhaps you  can gess which

there's Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds and a few Blue Meanies for starters

Dear Orinoco

Please thank your wife, it is appreciated, I am unfamiliar with these sites and am rather confused that it has been suggested this is a scam I can assure you it is not, they have all been denounced all 15 of them I read the document today, because they built houses without permission, the estate agent told them all they would deal with applying for the documents, in one of their files I discovered an additional bill from the builder for their building permission!   

The lawyer has charged them 450 euro for the architect to provide a certificate of antique because, yet they all paid the architect direct too,  the houses were built in 2004, but as mentioned some are on the ramblica.   However the chap who paid the town hall 500 euro for his habitiation licence because he thought that was the procedure, I am waiting to find out if he was denounced also.   I wrote to the site to try and get ideas I did not do so to set up a fund or arrange a scam and benefit personally.   I offered to help these people and am stunned at my findings, I mentioned in the beginning the fees the lawyer charged and I have copies received today.   One other thing learned today, they were charged by the lawyer 4000 for electric connecting, yet their is not an endessa bill in sight.

Therefor those of you who have put me into the fibber and scammer department I can assure you this is totally and utterly wrong, they did also notify me to say Mr Zapatero's house is buiilt on a ramblica, I do not have verification and once I do I will let those who do not think I am a prospective thief.   I do not want any funds only ideas to help.   .