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29 Aug 2012 14:50:

I'm starting to wonder if K Five is a legit user or a forum troll as he refuses to believe anything is said of him even when factual evidence is place before him.

I'm going to be as black and white as I possibly can so you may perhaps finally understand.

A trained monkey could be an MOT tester they have specific requirements to check and that is where it endsm, they do not check for replacement engines, not body modifications unless it's obvious, ie falling off or getting in the way of the steering and what not.

They're NOT engineers if they were we'd be paying more than 50 quid a time for an MOT.

They will check for example a wishbone, they will check the balljoints are intack and 'working' by working they just look for travel and tears in rubber. That's IT they wouldn't have a CLUE if they were looking at an OEM part that had cost thousands in R&D or a third party chinese knockoff with a TUV logo on it. They wouldn't have a clue that say perhaps the wrong kind of metal or moulding process has been used and so on.

So no, and MOT is just a very basic test with the assumption the vehicle is OEM standard with only a FRACTION of care taken to look outside that "box" of possibility.

If you asked an MOT tester 2 years ago what EU type approval was I bet the vast majority of them wouldn't have a CLUE and probably some still dont.

However knowing some MOT testers personally I can back what robert said up, they are now privvy to a lot more information on your vehicle than ever before and that data is being increased and improved every year. They now know if the vehicle has been a category insurance 'write off' and stuff like that. So one can only assume if this new law does come into force the database they are connected to will hopefully include modifications added to vehicles ; making the assumption that modifications will be allowed via a separate SVA/ESVA/IVA.

As I said, hopefully this new law will set the men from the boys when it comes to modifications to vehicles and only the ones who are serious about it will end up doing it as it will cost more to achieve their desires. That way it will keep the webforum 'massive' and halfords bridages at bay and that for me can't come soon enough and that is just my personal opinion as from my experience with joe public and modifications in GENERAL they don't know their arse from their elbow.


This message was last edited by delza on 29/08/2012.
Thread: Modifying a Car in Spain , some clarification from experts required

27 Aug 2012 00:39:

Oh lordy lol

First there was the war mentioned, now "top gear" and "petrol heads" I think my pants need modification to stop leakage from wetting myself laughing lol

I think it's probably wise that you have said you'll shutup now as you keep digging a deeper and deeper hole for yourself and still arguing law and fact.

I do not watch top gear, well perhaps only their Christmas specials but I will assume you mean the Eagle E-Type conversions and assumption is the mother of all embarrasement. The vehicles come with a new homolgation certificate as they would not be allowed to be registered without it. How do I know? I've registered one in Spain for a client who had his in the UK. So please, stop talking absolute nonsense as you're just adding fuel to the fire and it is why the 'modding scene' has very little respect as it's full of armchair specialists who are full of enthusiasm but lack in knowledge, experience or fact.

Thanks for the laugh and inforcing my opinion of the 'scene' if anything lads lol

PS: Fancy a meet up in a Tesco's car park for a few doghnuts, sorry couldn't resist bringing some light hearted banter to an otherwise annoying hit your head against a wall thread.

This message was last edited by delza on 27/08/2012.
Thread: Modifying a Car in Spain , some clarification from experts required

27 Aug 2012 00:24:

Well said Robert and thank you for taking the time to point out factual evidence based from Government websites it saved me the hassle but alas it's quite pointless argueing with such people who ignore fact and law as they're always right. Something I have learnt over the years that the modding scene for the most part are ignorant of what they do.

This is why I've always supported the Spanish way of doing things, they blocked the loopholes that the UK system has as have the Germans.

Personally I can't wait for the new law to come into force, it will for all intent and purposes sort them men from the boys and clean up the entire 'industry' and 'scene' in the UK and just improve the situation in Spain a little further and I'm not just talking about the 'roy racers' who chav their vehicles up with bodykits and bigger engines but I'm also talking about the whole third party parts industry in europe. It will have a complete overhaul and shobby copies will hopefully become a thing of the past and need some sort of EU certification to continue to trade.

People can mod their vehicles to their hearts content if the vehicles are checked over by a qualified engineer (an MOT or ITV inspector is not an engineer) I have absolutely no problem with that. It's not my thing but each to their own.

However, what I find just sacrilegious is when idiots take true classic cars and butcher them beyond the point of being able to return them to their original state, it is my opinion that these people should stick to Nova's, Golfs and the like and continue to meet up in Halfords carparks and really sad 'meets' where people compare how much butchery has occured to a vehicle.

I own an original Porsche 993 Twin Turbo at the moment and someone actually had the nerve to ask me why it's not beem modded or 'uprated' I just shook my head in disbelief and it's those kind of people who give the modding 'scene' the sad reputation it has.


This message was last edited by delza on 27/08/2012.
Thread: Modifying a Car in Spain , some clarification from experts required

26 Aug 2012 08:45:


Again it is ignorance of the law, prior to COC papers you would have to order a compliance notice/letter from the manufacterers homologation department.

Much like people say that modifications are illegal, you can not have modded vehicles in Spain, that is also utter and total nonsense there is a LEGAL route to this, far superior to the UK one which like many laws in the UK just brushed under the carpet or 'adapted/ignored' to suit people and/or organizations.

If you have a vehicle that a COC or Compliance letter is not available (ie Age related or the company going bust) then you would have to pay out of your own pocket for a model report done which at least 5-6 years ago before the arse fell out of the motor industry cost approximately £1,600 for a single vehicle report.

I remember when this law was being brought in on German soil a good few years ago now, everyone like yourself panicked and the market was absolutely flooded with oldtimers, especially RHD ones (what the Germans call classic cars) because they panicked before knowing the real facts. That is the upside for people like me who make money out of stupidity so we ended up buying a far few of them up as the market was flooded, so they were 'cheap' shipped them to the UK to sell here and further abroad. It was only when the law came into force did average Joe see there were routes around this, sure more complicated, more expensive but if your need to own a 'classic' or a modified car is that great then like most things, pay for that priviledge.

I think everyone needs to calm down, lobby against the law if you desire but ultimately wait until (if) it is implemented as like any other EU Directive there is a time frame in years for when these things have to come into force which would give you plenty of time to consider your options and/or if you owned a business based around modding (as a few of my friends do) you'd have time to adapt or change your business model to fit the new law(s)

K 5ive, nobody said your vehicle modficiations were done on the cheap, that is merely an assumption made by yourself after being confronted by 2 people who actually know what they're talking about and the laws and not based on here say from a Rover forum with 20,000 people who whatever someone bragged about.

We in the trade call such forums "arm chair specialist" who have a lot to say but very little knowledge to back it up, generally - again that is not a comment based on yourself, but more of the modding scene in general from which I have VAST experience from over many many different platforms and manufacterers.

The funniest being the people who would add 'downforce' aero modifications to their smart cars and actually think they make a difference lol

Another piece of FACT before it's mentioned about such inhouse (or even out of house) tuning companies such as I dunno AMG/Brabus or similar you will see most do not make any fundamental changes to engines, mainly remaps and most will have basic body changes like bumpers and suspension. But ALL these vehicles will come with a NEW and completely different to the stock cars C.O.C document and in some cases a different VIN # because they are modified cars and such no longer stand by their oriignal C.O.C document.


This message was last edited by delza on 26/08/2012.

This message was last edited by delza on 26/08/2012.
Thread: Modifying a Car in Spain , some clarification from experts required

25 Aug 2012 22:39:

As robert has pointed out you couldn't be more wrong when you state that SVA is for kitcars only, it (and its more modern ESVA) is for vehicles that do not have full EU type approval.

Technically since your vehicle is pre EU Type approval then it would have to reference a manufacterers compliance notice and if found to not follow this compliance notice/letter then it would fail any ESVA test it really is as simple as that.

If you can not obtain a certificate of conformity (highly unlikely for said rover) or a compliance notice/letter from the manufacturer then it makes the ESVA process to be circa £1,600 to have a model report made for the vehicle, at least that was the rough price of one the last time I did it.

An MOT does not dictate your car follows EU type approval it's just a pre-historic test to state your vehicle is considered roadworthy based on the assumption the vehicle follows type approval. It would not check for example if you had put on a 35 china knockoff wishbone that risks not only your own health but innocent members of the public that is where the SVA and now ESVA comes into play.

All this drama about something that nobody really knows anything about just makes me smile, a typical forum response of panic. No mention that the UK or ES can opt out of most if not any EU directive they desire or adapt it to best fir their needs. That is why personaly and professionally if this EU directive were to be implimented into the main stream and I hope it does there will be avenues that will cater for people who modifiy there cars using the already existing ESA/SVA route which is primarly what it's designed for, just 'modder's like yourself are not aware of it as well, with my experience of the modding scene the vast majority of it is done on the cheap.

 It would seem the only people stating fact are myself and robert everything else is pure speculation, crap or just complete nonsense.

This message was last edited by delza on 25/08/2012.
Thread: Modifying a Car in Spain , some clarification from experts required


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