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Justin's Life

Welcome to my new blog. I plan to write about all sorts of things here, my life in Spain, ineresting things and ideas I've come across, places I've visited and so much more. Hope you enjoy it and please leave comments as your input is always appreciated.

My advice after 6 years in Spain
Monday, July 12, 2010 @ 7:23 PM

Six years ago we boarded a plane with our two-year-old twins heading for a Spanish adventure.  I was 30 and Susan just 26 at the time.  We were making the move that most normally make much later in life.

Our preparations during the previous eighteen months before we moved should have made our Spanish adventure start relatively smoothly, although that turned out to be quite far from reality.

Those you who have watched our Spain Uncut video series will be familiar with our story but if you haven’t watched it yet then read on.  I hope some of the points here will help you on your way if you too are planning on moving to Spain.

Over the past few months I’ve seen more and more people talk about moving to Spain to live and work.  It’s as if people are once again warming to the idea.  Many are doing it with just a few Euros in their pocket, throwing all caution to the wind and just doing it.

Although I applaud them for their bravery, I also think they are crazy.  We’ve seen so many people have to leave Spain, we’ve seen families broken up and some very desperate people.  Moving abroad to any country is a massive commitment and a life-changing moment, but I do worry about those that haven’t really thought it through properly.

Let’s take the case of schooling.

Why do so many people think it’s perfectly acceptable to put an English speaking thirteen year old into a Spanish school without knowing any Spanish at all?  Would the parents themselves be comfortable in a room of Spanish speaking people only?  How much would they understand?  Nothing is the answer.  So why do it to the children?

Parents often think that they are doing the best for the kids by bringing them to Spain.  Think hard about this.  It’s a totally different learning style, a totally different language in a totally foreign environment.  It’s the reason we see so many teenage expat children hanging around here with nothing to do.  They don’t go to school, they don’t have jobs.  They have become wasters.

Starting at a younger age most expat kids can do well in a Spanish school, but dumping young teenagers into a foreign school will do them no favours whatsoever.  If you want the best for your children think very hard about this.  You may think that by moving to Spain you will give your kids a better quality of life, but by screwing up their education you will be undoing all of the benefits of moving to and living in Spain.

You may need to consider the cost of an International English speaking school for your kids.  If your kids are older and you need to do this, but can’t afford the 1,000 or so Euros every month then....don’t move.  That’s it.

Will you be looking for a job?

We are still getting many people on the forums looking to move to Spain hoping to find a job.  Unless you already know someone who will gladly offer you a job (called “enchufe” in Spain) then you may as well forget it.

There really are so few jobs available that basing your entire move on hoping to find a job is crazy.  It’s just not going to happen.  Even if you do find one you won’t get paid very much and job security is generally low.

A couple of years ago I met the editor of an English newspaper on the coast here and he told me that he was paid 1,000 Euros per month....and that’s the editor of a newspaper!  And a couple of months later he lost his job as the paper went out of business.

Instead, consider setting up your own business.  This is crazy too but you have more chance of earning a living if you can really service the needs of people here yourself.  The systems in place for running your own business are not so straight forward and it is expensive, so you will need to do plenty of research into this before you move over.

There are grants available for new businesses too so this may be something you’ll want to look into.

Where to live

After schooling, choosing where to live is probably the second most important decision.  Do you want to live in a city (more opportunities), a quiet village, near the sea, in the mountains, in a closed expat style community, etc.

If you have young kids and you want them to integrate well then you really need to get amongst the Spanish.  Look for predominantly Spanish communities and not the more remote mainly expat communities.

Also, don’t blow all of your money buying a property.  There are so many places to rent at the moment and very reasonable rates.  It takes time to know whether you want to live in an area.  Rent first, try it out for a while.  If you then want to plant some roots chat to a local estate agent.

Learning Spanish

I was in Italy recently and I found it really frustrating not being able to get my point across properly, especially in the pharmacy one day.

How on Earth do people survive in Spain without speaking any Spanish?  I know many Spaniards speak English these days but they don’t all speak English, and it doesn’t come across well if you don’t even make the effort to speak a bit of Spanish.

Most of the Spanish parents we know from the school DO NOT speak English.  How could you ever get to know these people if you can’t even communicate with them?  I know the Spanish aren’t so interested in making new friends anyway, as they rely more on the families, but still, at least we get invited to their “days out” being the only “guiris” that actually speak Spanish.

And how do parents talk to the teachers about their kids’ education??

How do expats converse with the electricity company?

I often get asked to translate something or make a call for someone, and I don’t generally mind, but if you seriously want to live in a foreign country then you must make a big effort to learn some of the language.

“I’m too old to learn Spanish” is NOT an excuse....and being too busy is definitely NOT an excuse either.

Make the effort.  There are always courses everywhere, language-exchange groups, etc.  There is no excuse and you will enjoy a much better experience having some command of the language.

The safest place on Earth

We often hear expats talk about how safe it is along the coasts of Spain and I cringe when people say that.  They let their kids roam free, they leave windows and doors open and the walk around with their wallet hanging out their back pockets.

Is there crime along the costas?  Of course there is and you’d be naive to think any differently.  There have been several gang shootings around Marbella for example, paedophiles hiding out in Spain on the run from the UK, hold-ups at the banks and more.

With unemployment so high now the number of burglaries and muggings has really rocketed.  Just ask my neighbour who’s a local policeman.

Many expats think that nothing happens here because they live in a bubble.  They never read the Spanish news and the English newspapers generally don’t report everything you read in the Spanish press.

How many expats reading this can name the leader of the opposition party in government in Spain?  And what party does he represent?  If you watch or read the Spanish news his name is in it every day.  Can you name him?

Talking to an older Spanish friend the other day, he was telling me that he remembers the days, going back just 10 years or so, where everyone in the village always left their front door open and they were always in and out of each others houses.  I personally thought that that’s how it still was but he said it’s very different theses days, people are more scared and you won’t find so many open doors any more.

Anywhere you live there will always be crime, dodgy people and perverts.  It’s no different in Spain...and please don’t try and argue this one with me.

I’ve even recently had some problems here with some people and even had to report them to the police, only to find that their friend was the one I spoke to at the police station and therefore they had a good laugh at me.  I had to take some other more extreme action to get a problem sorted.  Yes, these things happen everywhere, including Spain.

Why so negative?

This may all sound very negative but I’m not trying to put you off moving to Spain.  I want you to be as prepared as possible.  I want you to really understand that Spain isn’t paradise and the answer to all your problems.  It can be but it isn’t for everyone.

I haven’t mentioned this before but we nearly moved back to the UK this year.  In fact, at one point we decided we were going to leave, just like many others we’ve met over the years. 

But in the end we’ve decided to stay, for now, mainly because our kids are so happy here, they love their Spanish school, their friends and they love Spain!  I personally never say never.

It can be very tough in a foreign country, especially when it comes to making a living.  Your options tend to be more limited especially with language constraints.  I actually bumped into some friends I haven’t seen for a few months recently and they were of the “I would never go back to the UK if you paid me” variety.  However, they told me that they are struggling so badly that they may need to return now before they burn up what’s left of their savings.  I hear this quite a lot.

I’ve previously covered what I love about Spain and most people who want to move here already know this. 

Property you can now afford

On a more positive note, there has also never been a better time to hunt around for property.  Prices haven’t been this low for many years and you can pick up some incredible bargains if you talk to the right agents.  Most of these properties are finished in up-and-running communities so many of the off-plan nightmares of the boom era have gone.

A lot of the fly-by-night estate agents went out of business a long time ago and we are left with some of the best now who have survived on their established reputations.

Enjoy it

I do love living in Spain and many of our expat friends are the same.  But, with just some words of warning I hope that  those of you who are looking to move here, you may be able to enjoy a much smoother ride that those of us who have gone before you.

Be prepared, be sensible, bring plenty of money, be safe and enjoy it.

Don’t forget to check out our Spain Uncut video seriesWe are offering a 50% discount for our 6th anniversary week.  You can get access to it for just €23 today instead of the normal €47.  It’s got all the advice you should need for a happy and safe move to Spain.

Wishing you a very happy life in Spain!

Justin



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66 Comments


Karensun said:
Monday, July 12, 2010 @ 5:39 PM

Justin, your post is excellent. It is also factual and persons thinking of moving here should read it and take heed.
We are lucky, our income is stable ( pensions! ) but if we had to make a living here our lives would be a different ball game!


Kevin Hicks said:
Monday, July 12, 2010 @ 6:15 PM

Hi Justin,
I would like to add something. If you have a real "trade" it is possible to make a successful business here if you are prepared to make a significant investment here.
I am a Central Heating Engineer. My wife and I arrived 6 years ago and immediately installed oil fired central heating into our villa as it is freezing cold and damp here (Mazarron Murcia) in the winter.
All our neighbours quickly requested the same and Camposol Heating & Maintenance S.L was born!
Whilst we do not make anywhere near as much money as in the UK it can be done. We generate an income from the business, and love the lifestyle here. We have expanded into Air Conditioning, Water Heaters, Water tanks, and general plumbing have 2 employees and so far we are making it work although it is tougher than 2 years ago.
My wife sold computer software for 20 years in the UK and is now a partner in a glossy ex pat Magazine. Again not making fortunes but earning an ok living. You are totally correct and your points are very valid and very important as a warning but thought a positive story could be added as some trades do "travel"!



Stephen said:
Monday, July 12, 2010 @ 6:27 PM

Couldn't agree more, can't move to live here permanently yet but that just gives me more time to improve my Spanish.
Our house purchasing experience was faultless & trouble free but only thanks to info we got from people such as yourselves.



Tricia said:
Monday, July 12, 2010 @ 6:38 PM

Hi Justin
I thoroughly enjoyed this read. You point out all the pitfalls that can occur when moving abroad. We moved to Irelande in 1997 and stayed for 7 years and couldnt manage financially so returned to the UK. We were lucky as we managed to sell our house, for much less than we paid but we got out just in time. We are tempted to move abroad again, but once bitten..... However we have decided to rent a villa in Almeria from Nov to April just to check it out, who knows! We watch these Tv programmes and they make things look so attractive don't they? I think when many of the English move abroad they leave their brains on the plane, we just cannot believe what we see. Your article was excellent and I think anyone thinking of moving to Spain should digest your article thoroughly, sound advice. Thanx Tricia


John said:
Monday, July 12, 2010 @ 6:41 PM

Hi Justin, I have been a keen follower of your site from the beginning. How quickly the 6 years has passed. I moved to Spain in June 2003 following my retirement and I cannot envisage returning nto the UK.
I read your blog with great interest and there is nothing in there that I would disgaree with. Planning is the key to any move to another country. Spain is NOT like the Uk in so many ways. I think a lot of Brits make assumptions, for example there are no benefits available unless you have previously worked and paid into the system. ALL dealings are in Spanish - so you must learn the language. In any case it's only polite.
Unemployment is very high. I was speaking to a young Spanish graduate the other day. He is in his early 20's and has been looking for a job for 3 years. He is delighted to have get a job at McDonalds.
Good luck for the next 6 years.


Patricia said:
Monday, July 12, 2010 @ 6:42 PM

Yes Justin you are telling it as it is, which is good.
I can never understand these people that want to move to Spain and have not researched schools for their children.
Well I for one am glad you are staying to keep EOS going but I expect it is hard work and you do get the abusive posts.
Which is disgusting I think you do such a good job with the forum and I am so glad I found it.
Hope all goes well for you glad the twins are enjoying their school.


John Crisp said:
Monday, July 12, 2010 @ 6:42 PM

Very accurate indeed. Especially about learning the language. It's downright rude not too. Just think about how you feel about immigrants in the UK.....

Last night was fantastic, sitting with 20 if our Spanish friends watching the Cup on Spanish TV, talking, laughing & celebrating in Spanish. No, I'll never be Spanish, but my home is here. And I feel welcome and included.

We are lucky to be able to run a small company in the UK from here as our primary income.

It has been tough on the kids (they were 14 & 12 at the time). One has been accepted to join the Royal Engineers now he is 16, but with unemployment at something like 20%, and for under 25s around 40%, it was going to be tough as he is not academic, though he did have an opening here with a local mechanic, mainly due to his interest in mechanics and ability to speak two languages - handy with the odd UK customer and a lot of manuals are in English !) The second is very bright and has worked really hard on his language. For him, fluent Spanish will be a distinct advantage, and worth a possible extra year at school (you didn't mention repeating years at school). Having to learn AND be taught in a local language as well (such as Valenciano round here) can make it even worse. We had no idea !

I don't think it is any more or less safe than anywhere else in the world though certainly less so than years ago. Unfortunately the media seriously affects public perception of safety. An old adage - go back 100 years. You're experiences were only from people you knew. Forget the media and apply it now. How many children do you know PERSONALLY who were abducted ? How many people raped ? How many killed in a plane crash ? How many in a car ?

And yet we think the car is safe..... but we get in it every day, with our kids. And yet statistically it's far more dangerous. Like everything in life, just be a little cautious. But don't wrap yourself in cotton wool.

Yes, moving here is VERY difficult and not to be underestimated. But the more effort you put in, the more you will get out of it. A change CAN be as good as a rest, but don't think moving will cure all your problems you have in the UK. You swap one set for another. And if your relationship is not strong, it will find the weaknesses very quickly.

And lastly the pace of life. It's lovely, slow, less stressful. Which is great if you are Spanish, or don't want anything done in a hurry.

But unless you throw away the normal 'live life at 300mph' and 'I want it NOW' mindset, you are going to struggle. Especially when you can't speak Spanish. My wife seriously struggled (what do you mean the part hasn't arrived and the car isn't ready - they've had it 5 days already......), and still does occasionally, but it's taken a while. Me ? Must have Spanish blood someplace :-) Right then. I'm off down the bar............


Frankie said:
Monday, July 12, 2010 @ 6:45 PM

I think your comments are spot on and would go one step further; if you need to work to feed a family, don't bother coming here> I am on a fixed pension with money guaranteed to arrive each month and am struggling. So many people are returning to Uk right no, totally broke.


Neill Reardon said:
Monday, July 12, 2010 @ 6:50 PM

Hi Justin...
Excellent article, and couldn't agree more with what you have said.
People always think 'The grass is greener' but unfortunately it isn't and the more research people do into how things are in the country they choose to move to lessen the risks of having to abandon their dream and return back to the UK peniless and jobless.
Keep up the great work and look forward to reading your articles for the next six years.


Paula England said:
Monday, July 12, 2010 @ 6:52 PM

Excellent advice...but we ended up purchasing in Gibraltar three years ago for many reasons. We cross the border frequently though and I love belonging to this site! Hope it continues and thank you Justin :) x


Lisa said:
Monday, July 12, 2010 @ 7:06 PM

Hi Justin, I have enjoyed reading you blog post. My husband & I have been in Spain 4 and a half years now, we love it out here but that doesn´t mean things are easy, the recession has hit Spain very hard. Times are hard just like they are everywhere, the Spanish are struggling as well as the expats, we have known of homeless Spanish people in our village, what hope does that give to us expats, if the Spanish can´t get help from the government we won´t if we need it. Like a lot of expats we are doing our best to ride it out, surely things will soon start getting better?
On the positive side, what gorgeous weather we are having and the Spanish are in party mode after winning the world cup, that´s lifting a lot of spirits, so thanks to the Spanish team.


Jenni Ray said:
Monday, July 12, 2010 @ 7:39 PM

Brilliant!! especially about the point about sticking teenagers into local spanish schools and expecting them to cope. I have 3 daughters, the oldest was just choosing her GCSE´s as we came over so I paid to put her into private education where she went on to complete her A levels. She is now in Oxford studying music and although her private schooling was expensive, worth every penny. She is so much more mature than the ´normal first year student´.. that I put down to living in a different country and all that goes with it. A lot of her peers were stuck in the spanish system and have as you said become layabouts... Taking away a childs education, striping away their choices and limiting their prospects, to me is almost a crime.

My other 2 were 6 weeks old and 3 so they have always been in the spanish system... obviously they are bilingual but their english has suffered. The high schools for them are not that great so the dilema to put them into private schools are to better their english and not the other way around.

We have a business, an outdoor activity centre, that fortunately is doing well, and we rely heavily on the expat market and tourism. The struggle against bureauracy and red tape has seemed never ending and had we not invested so heavily in our property over here, would have sold up and moved on long ago.

That said however, we are here and my kids absolutely have the lifestyle most would envy.... my husband and I however, are just working too hard to enjoy it but the choices were ours and hopefully when the kids have completed their education we can sell up, buy a camper van and tour the world... and guess what we will start with Spain!!


Bobbie said:
Monday, July 12, 2010 @ 7:41 PM

Hi Justin

you're right in your article.

You may need to be very flexible about what work you will do, or be imaginative in an idea of what business you set up.

i did some voluntary work at a couple of places and one of those led to a job, but it took time.

But with the sun shining and the world cup won last night, there are worse places to be





Janis said:
Monday, July 12, 2010 @ 7:48 PM

Your blog on moving to Spain along with the other comments is very accurate. When you live in a different area, let alone country, it is very important to network. Go along all as many local events as you can - whether it is a quiz or line dancing. By meeting other locals, most of which will be non-Spanish at these events you learn and socialise. You will have to go a few times to become a known face and after a while you will get invited to other events. You cannot expect everyone to be your new best friend, it is hard work networking, but it is a good way of starting to integrate. Learning Spanish is also an excellent idea, and of course, you meet others in a similar position as yourself. Most off all - give yourself time and don't give up.


Homefinder said:
Monday, July 12, 2010 @ 7:50 PM

Well done Justin, spot on mate - could not have put it better myself!
I have lived and worked in Moraira for 38 years. I have seen them come and go. It usually requires a real effort to settle in and you can almost predict those that won't make.
I think that learning Spanish is about the most important, least ways, anyone who makes the effort is proving that they have the determination.
The only thing that you did not mention was the economic crisis and my view is that austerity, crippling taxation and high unemployment are here for the next 5 years at least. It is important that anyone thinking of coming here to work completely understands that. It is not going to be easy in the UK but at least they have the remedy of devaluation of the £. Spain does not have that remedy and they have to do it the hard way.

Homefinder


Homefinder said:
Monday, July 12, 2010 @ 7:51 PM

Well done Justin, spot on mate - could not have put it better myself!
I have lived and worked in Moraira for 38 years. I have seen them come and go. It usually requires a real effort to settle in and you can almost predict those that won't make.
I think that learning Spanish is about the most important, least ways, anyone who makes the effort is proving that they have the determination.
The only thing that you did not mention was the economic crisis and my view is that austerity, crippling taxation and high unemployment are here for the next 5 years at least. It is important that anyone thinking of coming here to work completely understands that. It is not going to be easy in the UK but at least they have the remedy of devaluation of the £. Spain does not have that remedy and they have to do it the hard way.

Homefinder


Homefinder said:
Monday, July 12, 2010 @ 7:52 PM

Sorry Justin
Please delete the duplication.
Homefinder


Rod Younger said:
Monday, July 12, 2010 @ 8:02 PM

never a truer word written -lets hope people get the message!


Richard said:
Monday, July 12, 2010 @ 8:21 PM

Well said Justin and so true. After 10 fruitful years of employment and 2 on the "Para" i am now reluctantly preparing to return to my homeland to obtain an honest income. Here is to hoping the good times will return soon.


mike smith said:
Monday, July 12, 2010 @ 8:47 PM

Justin, I also thought that your blog was interesting. Would you consider doing a similar blog on the issues that people wanting to retire in Spain face at this time?


David Latham said:
Monday, July 12, 2010 @ 8:53 PM

Hi Justin,

I follow your blog with great interest as i bought in Spain in early 2006.I still live in England as i have my own business here but would love to move to Spain.Reading your blog as helped immensly through the moving process and although we spend a lot of time visiting our place in Spain and making new friends,we too have seen other friends struggle and return back to England,giving up their dream homes and also splitting up themselves.This blg and your usual 'tell them as it is' style is very very good for all types of people either like ourselves or indeed those wishing to move full time.Learning spanish is a must,and as others have said preperation and planning is the key!!!!!Thanks for the insites and the last six years!!!


Al Powell said:
Monday, July 12, 2010 @ 9:05 PM

Hola Justin,
Extremely informative as always.
THANK YOU & CONGRATULATIONS on your 6th.BIRTHDAY.
Saludos,
Al & Deb.


Sanchez1 said:
Monday, July 12, 2010 @ 9:06 PM

Wow, and I thought I was negative about Spain!! A spot on article. People of working age thinking about moving to Spain at the moment are mad in my opinion. Things are only going to get worse.


normansands said:
Monday, July 12, 2010 @ 9:12 PM

Interesting and informative, thank you and others.
however given that you have almost failed once and indeed have only stayed for the children, what is the alternative?
the UK and benefits?
would you have succeeded without the help of Gibraltar?
Norman


Dot said:
Monday, July 12, 2010 @ 9:38 PM

Hi Justin, I agree with your comments, having just completed buying a property in Costa Del Sol, fully renovating the apartment and now beginning to finally take advantage of having a second home, I can say it was quite an experience!! From the valuation that the Tax man wanted over and above what my Husband and I paid, to the Bulletin needed for Endesa to give us a contract - and along the way the bad estate agents who are still out there I'm afraid, to the so called builders who also are still flourishing - we experienced all kinds of culture shocks - and all of this with no idea of the language other than please, thank you, agua sin gas and la cuenta. However, we are both still working and had set aside spare monies to deal with the unexpected and now we are beginning to relax and enjoy Spain (we have been over every month so far this year). Our direct neighbours are Spanish (thankfully they can speak a little english) and forgive me every time I attempt to say something and apparently strangle the words beyond all recognition, so that in the end I pass over the bit of paper I have carefully written my 'piece' on. I am determined to learn Spanish but teaching yourself using the internet is not easy. I also have some Berlitz CDs too and I cannot wait until I can finally have a joined up conversation with my neighbours !!! If you do plan ahead and dodge all the bullets I cannot think of a nicer country to move to or have a second home in. I only wish I was in Spain tonight for the second night of festivities, as our expat friend said, last night, it is Christmas, New Year and the Three Kings all rolled into one big celebration. Spain truly deserved to win the World Cup.


robert said:
Monday, July 12, 2010 @ 10:37 PM

it seams people move to Uk to better themselves economically
or through benefits Uk people move to Spain for a subsistance existance a lower standard of living and less opportunities

People in Uk already live in one of the most desireable countries to live in the world and they want to move to Spain which although is in the EU still has the rule of law broken down where property rights are concerned

Spain had property Tourism and massive money from the EU
they thought they were Gods gift
people should not invest in Spain till property rights and land grabs are sorted out

otherwise in the worst case scenario the Spainish will take everything you have got


Sue said:
Monday, July 12, 2010 @ 10:38 PM

Excellent post on your blog, Justin, and happy birthday to EOS and also to Susan.

When my children were young, we moved from northeast England to the southeast, and even though it was in the same country (some people may big to differ!) we gave a lot of thought before we made the move. One of my children DID have problems at school, and it was tricky enough resolving it even though the Head teacher and I spoke the same language!




Sue said:
Monday, July 12, 2010 @ 10:45 PM

Excellent post on your blog, Justin. Happy birthday to EOS and also to Susan by the way!

When my children were young (still at junior school), we moved from northeast England to the southeast, and even though it was in the same country (some people may beg to differ!) we gave a lot of thought before we made the move. One of my children DID have problems at school, and it was tricky enough resolving it even though the Head teacher and I spoke the same language! If you are a parent, please stop and consider before you uproot school age children to another country.

PS Justin, please can you delete my first post?!


Jon said:
Tuesday, July 13, 2010 @ 8:40 AM

It really amazes me that people from the UK up-sticks and move to Spain. In many, many respects, it's still a 3rd world country.

I purchase property all over the world and have houses in Spain, France, Germany, America and Italy, there is absolutely no way that I would relocate to any of them.

The Spanish are backward, the French are ignorant, Germans are arrogant, Americans are fat and stupid and the Italians haven't got a clue. Yes the UK has faults, but I'd rather live here and travel abroad as and when I want than sell up, opt out and put up with Johnny foreigner every day whilst running down my hard earned cash in a country where we as nation are not generally liked.


Jon said:
Tuesday, July 13, 2010 @ 8:46 AM

It really amazes me that people from the UK up-sticks and move to Spain. In many, many respects, it's still a 3rd world country.

I purchase property all over the world and have houses in Spain, France, Germany, America and Italy, there is absolutely no way that I would relocate to any of them.

The Spanish are backward, the French are ignorant, Germans are arrogant, Americans are fat and stupid and the Italians haven't got a clue. Yes the UK has faults, but I'd rather live here and travel abroad as and when I want than sell up, opt out and put up with Johnny foreigner every day whilst running down my hard earned cash in a country where we as nation are not generally liked.


Costa Blanca said:
Tuesday, July 13, 2010 @ 9:16 AM

Congratulations Justin and Susan. It is admirable that you tell it like it is rather than just praising Spain to the sky because you happen to run a website about Spain.

I think by being absolutely brutally honest you are genuinely helping people who should now think twice about what they are planning.

There is absolutely not one point I could disagree on. Well done!


Justin said:
Tuesday, July 13, 2010 @ 9:36 AM

Thanks for all of the comments. I'm glad I'm not the only way that thinks these things!

It is tough setting up a new life abroad and there's no point in pretending otherwise. I hope people take all of this advice and it use to their benefit. If only I'd had some of this advice 6 years ago....

And Norman, I'm not sure where you're coming from. I don't rely on Gibraltar for anything or plan to use the UK benefits system!

Justin


Lucy and Steven Franchi said:
Tuesday, July 13, 2010 @ 9:52 AM

Well said on many of your points -we are relatively new comers moving here two years ago buying a small ongoing golf tour business.
Having had a management position in the Uk for 20+ years we have found that our priorities changed and what we used to buy before ( just cos we could) realise we can live on at lot less here.
Taking Spanish lessons has been a big help and even later in life enjoy learning to communicate - a positive mental attitude and a sense of humour is a must in wherever you live.

Research and more research is the key to settling in Spain and building a network of people who have done it and can give advice through first hand knowledge.
We don't have children only a small dog and so did not have any of the issues with the education system.
We didn't buy through advice from friends living here for 7 years and rent at the moment.
We didn't sell our house and rent it ours in the Uk so we are fortunately in a more secure position than many who sold back in UK and bought in Spain.
We have said goodbye to a few folk since coming here as there is no work for them and hopefully they will be able to sustain a living in the UK.
Everything aside we love our life in Spain and whilst it may be financially challenging we will keep enjoying and celebrating that we made the move.


Moraira Property said:
Tuesday, July 13, 2010 @ 10:10 AM

Justin, some may see your post as negative but there is little you have written that I can disagree with. We sell property in Moraira, which is a beautiful part of Spain and we do not want to put off British buying in Spain. We want all our clients to enjoy their property in Spain and their Spanish Lifestyle. However, it is not for everyone. Your comments are likely to help manage expectations which can only be a good thing.
I am glad you have chosen to stay in Spain as the work you have invested in this web site is clear for all to see.



normansands said:
Tuesday, July 13, 2010 @ 10:38 AM

Sorry Justin, was I too cryptic. I am as always a fan and thanked you and others for their comments.
I referred to your "almost" return as a failure and wondered what your future here would have been, would it have been any different to all the others you mentioned and the current "Vicci" case where we seem to be impotent. You don't detail whether you would have had a job to return to etc.
I also wondered about the Gib' office address and whether "making it in Spain" is likely to be more successful if Gib' is close by??
Nothing more
Norman


bill said:
Tuesday, July 13, 2010 @ 11:00 AM

as always straight to the point,even when you do the homework and get it right for 10 years local mafias can cause problems, see BHtheTRUTH on youtube, the EU parliament have agreed to take up this case.so things do get better with perseverance.


Rondeau said:
Tuesday, July 13, 2010 @ 11:01 AM

Great and true article Justin.

I was castigated and pilloried by most for an article I posted around 3 months ago re. Spain or the U.K.

Many commented accusing me of 1) not learning the language (I learnt and speak fluent Spanish), 2) not doing my research, 3) being a typical Brit i.e. no work and no money (I run a hugely successful UK Limited Company in the U.K.) etc. etc. etc.

The real truth of the matter is that some people dismiss the facts and cannot admit to the fact that Spain has changed immensely in the 4 years that we have lived here.

Unfortunately many people holiday over here, fall in love with the dream and move out irrelevant of what people say or what they read.

I re-iterate my statement that the U.K. is much cheaper than Spain now with the exception of utility bills.

The best piece of advice from me is do your research thoroughly then if you do move, rent for around 6 months to decide where you want to put down your roots. Bring sufficient money to live on for at least 6 months and with the minor exception ensure that you have work/a business. The Spanish, rightly so, look after their own first in business!!
AND learn the language. Do not make the normal excuses i.e. I am too old. The Spanish will then welcome you and befriend you. As many people have mentioned they do NOT need Brit friends as their families and existing Spanish friends are quite sufficient for them.

So good luck and remember do not make any rash decisions that you would not normally make in a sane mood. So many Brits have/will become irrational at times in doing something totally out of character i.e. moving on a whim and live to regret their rash decision.

Rondeau


JazzII said:
Tuesday, July 13, 2010 @ 12:10 PM

Hi Justin

Great post ;-))

Back in 2007 we had a plan…….the idea was to spend the majority of our time working in Spain, but with the security of income from two other properties one in the UK the other in Turkey by 2012. Unfortunately, we recently suffered a major financial loss in Turkey despite having due diligence etc carried out on our off-plan investment which effected everything.
Today we’re left with a large mortgage on our UK property (which funded the investment) and a small Spanish property which thankfully we own mortgage free. At present it looks like we’ll have to continue working in the UK for at least the next 5 - 8 years and visit our Spanish property for the occasional holiday as opposed to living the dream…….
What happened……the Turkish builder assigned charges against the property which our London based lawyer did not pick up on, the builder also breached contract. Around that time, we also discovered the original London based law firm had made some translation mistakes on the contract regarding due dates which had an impact on when we could lodge our case against the builder. This all came to light when we employed a British Consulate recommended legal firm to commence proceedings against the builder in Turkey.
We had an expensive (circa £12k) legal case and a ruling in our favour against the builder, unfortunately said builder is now in the process of being made bankrupt so its unlikely there will be much (if any) money left for us. Earlier, we had been told that we could not take action against the initial London based law firm until a ruling was finalised against the Turkish builder. Following on from that ruling, we’ve looked into taking action against the original London based law firm but we’ve been warned there is no guarantee we can get all our funds back from them (via indemnity insurance) and in fact we may only get a nominal damages fee. We need to weight this up against any associated costs (which are not cheap). Of course on the other hand the judge may (once we reach that stage in the UK) award significant damages to us but it’s the not knowing and the significant fees that are making us consider what to do next………
It seems so unfair since we would never have proceeded with the investment if this law firm had done their job properly and made us aware of the charges assigned against our investment…..



Pommette said:
Tuesday, July 13, 2010 @ 1:09 PM

Well done Justin - I can only re-iterate what many have already said that your "tell it as you see it" approach is the right one.
We've owned our house in a small Spanish village for 8 years and retired here 4 years ago. Although 10 years young to retire, so don't get a UK state pension, our personal pensions (which are less than the UK state pension) give us enough to live on by keeping a careful eye on what we buy.
Yes - we have a problem with health care but we knew we would when we came so don't grouse about having to pay for it.
Yes - we struggle with the language. We do speak a fair amount of Spanish but still struggle to have a "fluent" conversation with the villagers. They speak Valenciano and there is also a local patua with pronunciation that foxes us. But they know we are trying (some would say I always have been!) and do speak Castellano to us - slowly!

All in all we are VERY lucky and our heart goes out to those that are finding it tough. We still remain in the "never go back to the UK" camp. We love Spain and the Spanish way of life. Beaurocracy, slowness, frustrations and all.

Keep up the good work Justin and Happy Birthday to EOS and Susan


Evelyn & Thomas said:
Tuesday, July 13, 2010 @ 2:01 PM

Taking this opportunity to say we just wondered though WHY you didn't stop the forum bullying this past week or so that caused Morerosado to leave. As far as my husband & I are concerned your forum will never be as great, sorry. Had it not been for More's huge help we would never have enjoyed such a calm buying process & choosing a bank etc. More worked her socks off for YOUR forum & others & certain members gave her such a bashing. That Sanchez1 is a law unto himself. Who is HE to think he can bully a woman in her 60's? Shame on him, shame on EOS. A public apology is, many feel, in order.


Justin said:
Tuesday, July 13, 2010 @ 3:18 PM

Evelyn and Thomas, I take your point but forums do get nasty sometimes, all forums are the same. I removed all the offending posts from the forum and members were cautioned at the time.

Morerosado knows I value her input on the forums and always have.

I never condone bullying and Morerosado knows I always act on her requests.


Louise said:
Tuesday, July 13, 2010 @ 6:36 PM

I agree with everything you said. I left Spain a month ago as I have just had enough of all the corruption. I am back in the UK with my family and enjoying every minute of it even the bad weather!! Good luck with what ever decision you decide in the long run and remember 'at least you have had a go' many people just talk the talk. I thank you for all the hard work you have put into this site and long may it reign.


Nina said:
Tuesday, July 13, 2010 @ 9:44 PM

Hi Justin,

Congratulations on your 6th year, I followed your blog since I was in UK and moved out here exactly 12 months ago with my husband as we are both retired. I did learn a bit of Spanish before coming out here but it was not enough but have managed to survive and yes it was not easy even though we took all the advice we could find from books and the internet I think you have to learn as you go along and take the good with the bad same as if you were in the UK or any other country.


Nina said:
Tuesday, July 13, 2010 @ 9:46 PM

Hi Justin,

Congratulations on your 6th year, I followed your blog since I was in UK and moved out here exactly 12 months ago with my husband as we are both retired. I did learn a bit of Spanish before coming out here but it was not enough but have managed to survive and yes it was not easy even though we took all the advice we could find from books and the internet I think you have to learn as you go along and take the good with the bad same as if you were in the UK or any other country.


Danny said:
Tuesday, July 13, 2010 @ 10:30 PM

That says it all and I am another that agrees. it's interesting to see that the ones usually shooting people down for telling the truth on eye on spain about the real spain are keeping shtum now! Thanks Justin for the brutal and honest truth.


jon said:
Wednesday, July 14, 2010 @ 7:38 AM

I wish all of you would grow up and face the facts. We are not liked in Europe, moving to Spain is like walking into a lions cage with a dead gazelle strapped to your head. The Spanish don't give a monkeys about us and would rather we just disappeared from their landscape. I think that moving to Australia would be a better bet, they speak our language, they still like us and their economy isn't going down the toilet. Spain is economically a dead man walking, I personally can't wait for all the tossers that still own places out there and invested their life savings in the disaster that is Spain to come back to England with their tails between their legs. At that point, we should raise 2 collective fingers to them all and send them back on the first easyjet plane out of Watford or Liverpool.


Jacquelie said:
Wednesday, July 14, 2010 @ 10:44 AM

Hi Justin
I don't live in Spain but my sisters do (one for 30 years the other for 22 years). Both married to Spaniards - one now divorced. They have met so many English people who go on holiday and think living and working in Spain would be just the same!! Little do they know. Life is very hard (even for the Spanish) in the resorts. Year on year hotels have closed for the winter season and very few Spanish people have a secure job. Gone are the days when working in a hotel was a job for life. Most people, including my sisters, are looking for a Summer job that will give them a long enough contract to claim benefits in the Winter when there's no work around.
The other aspect is, as you so rightly say, that ex-pats don't speak enough Spanish to deal with their affairs in Spain. And these are people who have lived in Spain for 30 odd years. My sisters both end up helping people with the bureacracy that comes with living in Spain - and we all know the Spanish love their paperwork. I've always said that they could have both started a business helping ex-pats. But they just help out of the goodness of their hearts, and maybe a meal or a drink.
I have an holiday apartment in Spain and I even find it frustrating not being able to deal with officialdom myself. Unfortunately, I can only speak basic Spanish.


Jacquelie said:
Wednesday, July 14, 2010 @ 10:51 AM

Hi Justin
I don't live in Spain but my sisters do (one for 30 years the other for 22 years). Both married to Spaniards - one now divorced. They have met so many English people who go on holiday and think living and working in Spain would be just the same!! Little do they know. Life is very hard (even for the Spanish) in the resorts. Year on year hotels have closed for the winter season and very few Spanish people have a secure job. Gone are the days when working in a hotel was a job for life. Most people, including my sisters, are looking for a Summer job that will give them a long enough contract to claim benefits in the Winter when there's no work around.
The other aspect is, as you so rightly say, that ex-pats don't speak enough Spanish to deal with their affairs in Spain. And these are people who have lived in Spain for 30 odd years. My sisters both end up helping people with the bureacracy that comes with living in Spain - and we all know the Spanish love their paperwork. I've always said that they could have both started a business helping ex-pats. But they just help out of the goodness of their hearts, and maybe a meal or a drink.
I have an holiday apartment in Spain and I even find it frustrating not being able to deal with officialdom myself. Unfortunately, I can only speak basic Spanish.


Sue said:
Wednesday, July 14, 2010 @ 2:37 PM

Jon

It sounds as if you have had some unfortunate experiences in Spain, however although we have had problems here too, I cannot agree with your statement that "The Spanish don't give a monkeys about us and would rather we just disappeared from their landscape." Where we live, we have made good Spanish friends and have been made to feel more than welcome. Shortly after we moved into the new building where we live, somebody broke into our trastero (storeroom) in the basement. One of our neighbours immediately offered to drive us to the Guardia Civil to make a statement and to stay with us until we had finished there. Another neighbour, who we hadn't met at that stage, knocked on our door to say how sorry he was and to say we could store the items that hadn't been stolen in his trastero. On Sunday the Ruta del Vino are giving us an award for our support of their activities, and everybody has been congratulating us. Do these examples support the view that "the Spanish don't give a monkeys about us"?


Suemac said:
Wednesday, July 14, 2010 @ 5:02 PM

Hi Justin

Mike Smith asked about people thinking of retiring to Spain. Obviously many of the points you made are very relevant, however there are other aspects to consider if you are retired. I have written an article with advice for anyone thinking of retiring here: would you be interested in seeing it and, if so, what is the best way to submit it to EOS?

Sue


jan said:
Wednesday, July 14, 2010 @ 5:26 PM

You are someone who talks sense as far as I am concerned. No country is PARADISE everywhere has different problems. Have been here 10 years so far and find the lifestyle and culture most enjoyable, and we have lived and worked in many countries over the years and find Spain frustrating at times but we are Very happy here. Do not know how you put up with such negative comments from some people, if they do not like what you print then do not look at the web site. VERY GOOD LUCK TO YOU AND YOURS.


Evelyn & Thomas said:
Wednesday, July 14, 2010 @ 9:15 PM

Justin, (regarding dear Morerosado) you said 'members were cautioned at the time' yet they were allowed to continue without being banned for their actions. So More left because, we assume (as we, & I would think others, would have felt the same) she felt being here was pointless. We may not post much & we don't post under our names as likely most don't but we do see that the forum has become very nasty recently. Just how do you think Morerosado is feeling? She deserved better. We saw she was writing, we wonder what about. We never met her unlike many we understand but we would have enjoyed that.


Justin said:
Thursday, July 15, 2010 @ 10:56 AM

Suemac, of course. Click the "Lifestyle" link in the menu above and click the link "Submit an article" to send it to us. I'd love to publish it in our newsletter.

Evelyn & Thomas, I don't really want to get into a discussion about Morerosado here. We are looking into ways of introducing her "friend or foe" idea in the forums, which I thought was a good idea, and will hopefully make it a more pleasant experience for everyone. Forums naturally get nasty sometimes and unless we try and introduce a long-term fix then it will always be an issue. We are therefore looking into Morerosado's idea.



Lynn said:
Tuesday, July 20, 2010 @ 1:38 PM

Excellent article Justin. Couldn't agree more with you. I lived in and worked in Paris for 6 yrs and knew that the most important first priority was to learn the language, which I did learn fluently. I think that everyone wanting to relocate to Spain should read your article first. True , honest and reality! I have a property in duquesa village but wouldn't relocate there until I had thought out all the pitalls in your article first.


Nelly said:
Tuesday, July 27, 2010 @ 9:58 PM

Hi Justin, thought I would throw in my opinion, I lived in Spain for 10 yrs until 2008 and enjoyed the best of times economically but the frustrations of dealing with officialdom was frustrating despite learning the language but because of the earning power you put it to one side. Now however its seems the Spanish are screwing the expat owners even more as they search for income.
Last yr they doubled my IBI taxes on 2 properties i have there as i am no longer on the padron because my tenants are, we cant both be!!! so they still get the funding centrally and screw me at the same time. Then this is the first yr as a non resident and they want 24% of the gross rent without deductions for mortgages and expenses. So having welcomed us yrs ago with open arms for all the property taxes we paid and the fortunes we made the lawyers, they go straight into your bank account even without a direct debit and deduct the money and you try and appeal then. So I no longer have a Spanish bank account and they can chase me and i will send them the money when I have it not when they demand it, last yr I almost missed a mortgage payment because they sacked almost all my funds.
Despite all this I miss Spain and the lifestyle and recession Britain is far from the same place when I left, they like foreigners here and the less you have the more they will give you, bizarre dont you think, I thought we were all in the EU.
my advise dont give up your dreams but be sure you are prepared to be treated less than equal and you will have a head start and have a sensible business plan you can work with and dont burn all your bridges like I did, by far its better to rent your K home and rent there, I wish I had, my former home just sold for 750k my Spanish properties are unsaleable in the current market!!!!!


Evelyn & Thomas said:
Monday, August 2, 2010 @ 11:35 AM

Justin you commented 'Forums naturally get nasty sometimes and unless we try and introduce a long-term fix then it will always be an issue'. Certain other forums' site owners have an attitude that if someone is personal, as many are becoming on EOS through lack of moderation, then their IP address gets banned, problem solved! We have seen much in the forum that has gone seemingly unnoticed by you. I realise you have a life outside here but install some decent moderators to stop these comments as soon as they're posted. I know many are now staying away due to the forum going downhill, it's sad. Don't lose more like our More! I hope she is ok.


Evelyn & Thomas said:
Monday, August 2, 2010 @ 11:39 AM

I said 'I realise you have a life' & 'I hope she is ok' & I include Thomas in that. Ths is Evelyn here.


Justin said:
Thursday, August 5, 2010 @ 6:02 PM

I appreciate your comments but I rarely check the forums every day, I just don't have the time. We only intervene and take action when members file the spam reports, for which there are links to from every post.

We always take action when requested to do so.

Justin


Eva said:
Friday, August 6, 2010 @ 8:26 PM

Hello Justin,
I am not English but Belgian. I enjoy reading your and I would like to give my opinion on the subject of moving to Spain.
Since English is not my native language, (Dutch/Flemish is), sorry for the mistakes !!!
I think Spain is more difficult to get used to for English people than it is for the Belgians. We have the advantage of learning and knowing foreign languages and our culture is a little closer. Most of the Flemish people I know are very happy to stay there but I fully agree that it is crazy to move to Spain if you have to find a job. Wherever you are coming from it is not the right time to do so.
Another question is : is the weather the only thing you want to change in your life ? If so, you should move to Spain, if not, perhaps you should stay at home, sort things out first and perhaps find an opportunity to make money at home. Earning good money in a different country is never easy.
I am very glad to read that English people seem to realise that they have to do an effort to learn different languages.
Just go for another 6 years Justin !

Eva





Jon said:
Tuesday, August 31, 2010 @ 11:33 AM

I am amazed that Justin admits to very nearly moving back to the UK, and yet still sells a guide to moving to Spain! Justin, that is really hypocritical. If you have so many doubts about Spain, as you clearly do, then you should not advise others about moving to the country. If you moved back to the UK would you keep selling your guides?


Justin said:
Tuesday, August 31, 2010 @ 3:38 PM

Jon, everyone moves to Spain for different reasons and the majority of people are very happy here. Our main reason for considering moving back to the UK was that my partner was going to go back to university and it meant we would all have to leave.

Nothing hypocritical there at all.

We have always made it very clear to people that getting a job in Spain is extremely difficult, I mention it in my post above and in the guides that you refer to. Our guides don't "sell" Spain, they are cold hard facts about the reality of living in a foreign country.

Living in a foreign country can be very difficult and frustrating at times and we have always been very honest about the realities associated with it.

We do love it here but we're in our thirties and so things can change. I never say never.

Justin


Jon said:
Tuesday, August 31, 2010 @ 6:44 PM

With respect, I was not saying your decision to move was hypocritical, I was saying that selling a guide about moving to Spain whilst saying you are on the verge of going back to the UK is. And it is a guide about moving to Spain, essentially, is it not?!

There are English Uni's in Spain as well of course... there's one in Marbella I read.


Justin said:
Tuesday, August 31, 2010 @ 6:54 PM

Jon, I'm not about to discuss eveything in my personal life here, and what you are referring to in Marbella is NOT a university.

Have you actually read ANY of our guides or watched our videos? I assume you haven't as if you had you wouldn't be making these comments.

I really don't see your point at all. Maybe you need to read more of the information that we publish.


Jon said:
Tuesday, September 7, 2010 @ 6:03 PM

I did not ask you to discuss your personal life, I was just referring to things that you, yourself, mentioned in your own blog.

Perhaps you should do a guide about moving away from Spain back to the UK if that is what you are on the verge of doing?

Didn't mean to get you upset. I've found Spain a brilliant place to live and work - my business has thrived here, indeed I retired at 30 and let my staff do all the work now.


neil said:
Sunday, February 13, 2011 @ 7:09 PM

I agree with evrything except the part about bank robbers.Whats wrong with the banks getting robbed?


jaxx said:
Friday, February 12, 2016 @ 9:02 AM

Great posts - though as my wife and therefore son are spanish, it's a done deal already. I think there ae a lot more positives than mentioned tho


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