San Jose NO DEEDS

We sympathise with all those folks who have paid some deposit and are awaiting either the completion, (or in some cases even THE START) of costruction of their dream home in Sunny Spain, and it is our fervent hope that the demise of San Jose can somehow be avoided by the administrators, so that an acceptable conclusion can be achieved for ALL concerned. 

There are however some other cases which so far have not been raised on this forum. Those being the folks who have PAID IN FULL for their property, but as yet have not received their title deeds. (In ALL cases well past the date advised by the lawyers). Those cases, to my own knowledge, amount to about 15 where the purchase was from San Jose, arranged through ATLAS, and by Atlas' recommendation, conveyanced by Aroca Seiquer. (Probably MOSTLY within the Playa Golf 3 develoment.) It is to these cases to which this thread is directed.

These are the facts as I understand them.

1) Property purchased from San Jose. (Playa Golf 3 seems to be the main area of irregularity)
2) Sale arranged and supervised by ATLAS INTERNATIONAL
3) Clients directed to Aroca Seiquer (Lawyers) BY ATLAS INTERNATIONAL
4) FULL PAYMENT made by SPECIFIC INSTRUCTIONS of ATLAS. PART paid by bank draft To ATLAS, (who in turn made their own pauyment to San Jose?), and PART 
     paid DIRECT to the builder, (San Jose), IN CASH at the San Jose Torrevieja office, (for which an unheaded receipt was given). The explanation given by ATLAS was 
     procedure was to in place to reduce the amount of tax liability. (However some 15 months AFTER the 'final liquidation', yet another E1800:00 was demanded by 
     the lawyers, with the explanation, 'the builder incorrectly stated the tax component'. This extra 1800:00 was duly paid.) I wonder if this is legal, and if NOT WHY did Aroca
     allow the procedure to continue?
5) Despite several requests by the purchaser, for the title deeds to be handed over, the lawyers either do not reply, (or avoid a DIRECT ANSWER), or on one ocasion 
     advised that 'it could be another 12  months before the deeds are ready'.
6) I have an appointment with the lawyer very shortly, and I will post the results on this site for your advice & information.
7) By virtue of a previous case similar in almost every way to that of our own, (and possibly up to at least 15 other cases concerning San Jose, Atlas, & Aroca), we were   
     horrified to discover that ALTHOUGH THE CLIENT MADE FULL PAYMENT FOR THE PROPERTY, SOME OTHER CHARGE/MORTGAGE  HAD BEEN INITIATED AGAINST
    THE PROPERTY by the builder!! This is SURELY HIGHLY ILLEGAL, and should have been detected by the 'search' promised by the lawyers?
7) See the report by Rebecca Griffin, Coastrider, Edition 208 - January 22nd, 2008

If you think that YOU may be affected in a similar manner, ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE IN PLAYA GOLF, URBANISACION LOMAS de CABO ROIG, and have used the services mentioned in this posting, please add your own experiences, information and advice, to this new thread. THANK YOU! 

With a little luck, and maybe some joint action, we may come out of this WITH our property, AND our deeds!

PT.

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Quote pteire

7) By virtue of a previous case similar in almost every way to that of our own, (and possibly up to at least 15 other cases concerning San Jose, Atlas, & Aroca), we were   
     horrified to discover that ALTHOUGH THE CLIENT MADE FULL PAYMENT FOR THE PROPERTY, SOME OTHER CHARGE/MORTGAGE  HAD BEEN INITIATED AGAINST
    THE PROPERTY by the builder!! This is SURELY HIGHLY ILLEGAL, and should have been detected by the 'search' promised by the lawyers?

Just change one name.

Tecnologia, Atlas, & Aroca. I have been in my house for 3.5 years and still no sign of the deeds. Pretty neat little setup Atlas have with Aroca don't you think?

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Hi Fly380!

Yes, it rather looks that way! Have you taken any 'alternative' legal advice?

PT

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We took Atlas to Surrey Trading Standards and - wait for it - they blamed Aroca. In the meantime Tecnologia have stopped work on our urbanisation - stopped paying water and electric. No Cert of  Habitation so no meters. What a mess. We are slowly trying to sort things out. The OC townhall could be more helpful! Don't ask me how Tecnologia are still in business.


This message was last edited by Fly380 on 6/9/2008.

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When we contacted Atlas, they said the same to us! 'Not our problem, go back to your lawyer, (Aroca)'. The whole thing STINKS, and I still see poor 'prospectives' being herded around by Atlas. If only they knew. I hope that some of them read these postings.

PT.

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Hi,
We bought through Atlas, completed just over a year ago, dare I say it BUT
we must be the only couple who have no gripe against Atlas, they were
okay all the way through our purchase, not so Aroca, we now have another solicitor.
But we got our deeds from Aroca within 9 months, then we immediately SACKED
them and changed to another solicitor. BUT since speaking to people on our
apartment block we do (and everyone else also)realize that Atlas did charge
us way over the top in all aspects of our purchase.I think all agents are CON MEN!!!

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Hi Gypsy,
Not ALL agents are con men thank you..........
Atlas have continued to blacken everyones name and help label everyone the same.
Yes they reccomend you use Aroca because they know that the crafty so and so's will cover their backs(my opinion only and nothing to do with the owner of this site)
DON'T USE THEM,use a reputable agent who will look after you.
Its quite an easy process, if a lot of people say they are bad,don't use them,if a lot of people say they are good,use them.
We are not all con men and i resent the implication.
Kind Regards
Georgia

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Hi Georgia,
I think you or someone you know must be an agent to resent my post.
I can only speak from personal experience.!!! When someone like my
OH and I who have never bought in another country before approached
an agent like Atlas in england we tend to trust in that they are being
truthfull with us as we know no different.Obviously now we do. So I stand
by what I said about agents purely from a personal point of view.

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Unfortunately we also went with Atlas the first time.  Like others, we knew no better.  I know this won't cheer you up but we are on the verge of receiving our deeds (they are at the notary after a trip to the land registry) and we have been promised them by the end of this month.  The bit that won't make you feel better is that it is now over 4 years since we completed on the property (6 years since we selected it off plan).  It was only 14 months ago that we came off builders supply for water and electric. 
On our second property, which we completed on last month, we didn't make the same mistake of choosing inappropriate agents and everything went smoothly.  Mains electric was provided before we completed on the property, mains water will be on sometime this month and I actually saw the deeds taken by the notary and solicitors (not the builders or agents) and everything was gone through with a fine tooth comb.
My advice for anyone buying in Spain?
#1   Get a good agent and builder with a proper set of offices.  Don't touch those who use a show home or portakabin as their main office.
#2   Insist on a bank guarantee
#3  Get an independent solicitor and avoid those recommended by the agent.  If the agent hums and hahs, go somewhere else.  Our second ones had no problem at all with that.
#4  This might seem silly for all those of you who are wallowing in the old spondoolicks, but get a mortgage.  We bought the first one cash.  The second one we took out a 40% mortgage which we intend to pay off in the first year.  Yes, you do have a fairly high set up fee BUT the bank will ensure that all paperwork and documentation (are they different?)  will be in order before they release any money.  Any problems and they won't pay the buildrs so go elsewhere.  Taking out a mortgage is not as daft as it seems.  Banks have a 1% pay off fee but no charges for paying off some of the balance.  So if, for example, you have a €50,000 mortgage, pay off €49,990.  When you pay off the €10 your charges will be €1.
#5  Don't pay black money, that is, cash up front.  Atlas told us "this is the way things are done in Spain" which it probably was, but the solicitors should have warned us off.  We knew no better (I think I'll use that excuse when I'm up before the beak- "We knew no better, m'lud".  Now we are getting the deeds, we have to pay the 7% tax on the difference of what we paid and what the land registry (?) think we should have paid.  Fine, we only have an upstairs duplex but we have to stump up €1600 in unpaid tax.  Our second agents/builders never once even hinted at paying money up front.
#6  I'm not advocating resale properties over off-plan properties as it all depends on your circumstances BUT look both ways.  There are some good resale bargains to be had.  If you have your mind set on a property but can't move in for a couple of years, by all means go off-plan.  Just remember the extra outgoings when you do move in (rejas, garden tiling, lighting, alarms etc etc).  If going resale get a good solicitor and definitely take out the mortgage, even if it's only 10%. 

There are dozens of things I have not mentioned, like, don't buy a plot of land off someone you meet in a pub (don't laugh, it has happened). 
If you stick to the above, you will at least have a good start.
Oh, finally, don't buy through Atlas, avoid Technologia Urbanistica and run a mile if Aroca Sequier offers to do the conveyancing.  I am sure many of you have bought through Atlas with no problems.  It's just when things go a little pear shaped that these companies are shown up for what they are, a bunch of amateurs who wash their hands of you because they have your money.
Best of luck to all of you struggling to get your paperwork and legality sorted out.  It'll be worth it in the end (he says, optimistically, knowing that for some people it wasn't)  Just remember that there are now many thousand of Brits living on the Costas for whom everything went hunkey dory.  We only hear of the ones where it went skew whiff which distorts the picture somewhat.

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Bobaol-Absolutely agree,some of the best advice i have heard on here for ages.

Gypsy-In reply to your post,I am an agent and do take offence as being labelled a con man,You were mistreated by an ENGLISH so called agent in ENGLAND and convinced to buy a Spanish property,why would you assume to trust them just because they are English?
I like many others have been ripped off in the past although on a smalller scale and never concerning property because i am lucky enough to have worked in this industry most of my life,fortunately i am wise enough not to consider everyone in the same profftession to be of the same morale standing.
There are dodgy builders,there  are dodgy lawyers and yes they are dodgy agents but to label them all the same is purely narrow minded.
The theory that all of one race or persuasion are to be labelled and adressed as a single entity and treated in the same manor was an ideal of one man approximately 70 years ago.
If you haven't worked it out who i am talking about yet,he had funny little moustache and supposedly had "only one ball" with the other residing in the Albert hall.
See where i am going with this.
And with a forum name like yours,i would presume you are not of the same thinking..................
Regards
Georgia

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Here Here Georgio, Have to say I couldnt of put it better myself.

Gypsy i feel for your situation, however some agents over here are earning a fair living by being honest and helping people realise there Spanish dream.

Please dont tarnish us all with the same brush.

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Hi ,
As I said in my post it is my personal opinion only.
I find your snide remark at my forum name quite funny Georgia.
GET A LIFE PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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The situation re. San Jose is very serious to very many, BUT it WILL NOT be rectified by name calling and nastiness.

There are good and bad in all walks of life and you CANNOT and SHOULD NOT generalise.

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