Meeting - 09/06/07

There is much in this country we should be ashamed of and much that no- one would want to admit being British for, but there is plenty that we should be proud of and shout about from the roof.

Personally I am proud of our armed forces, working in hellish conditions for little or no reward. Take Peterborough for example. Airmen/ women from RAF Wittering were told not to wear their uniforms in public for fear of upsetting the "natives" who were verbally abusing and spitting at them. At the end of the day, like what they are currently doing or not, they are the protectors of our country and all of us living here, give them a break!!

I am slightly more patriotic these days with the way William and Harry have turned out. Let's hope Charles does the right thing when the time comes and passes the throne by and onto the yoiunger generation with a bit of an idea of what is going on in the World, not hugging trees!

That's for starters, let's see where we go from here Georgia .

Mark

Hi Mark,

I will back you on those two 100%.I have a friend currently in Afghanistan that is about to leave after a full service.

He is coming to live near me in Spain and already has his house here.

I was always a Royalist and think they always produced more good for the country than they cost us.

I would struggle to think of anything else at the moment but lets hope we get some more comments......................

Just remeber not to wave the flag too vigorously,i understand that is against the law in the UK You are allowed to burn it but not display it as a gesture of pride!!!!!!!

Here's one for Justin, Gibraltar!

Hi Mark,

I can't say i am overwhelmed by the response...........

so far we have your 2 that i agreed with plus a rock,landing strip,mothercare and a few monkeys.............

There's umm,err  and whatsit  and thingamebob or something, err ,sorry struggling a bit now.

Queuing!!  I promise, after living here for so long, I am still proud that we are patient, considerate and able to queue!!!

Don't quite know if that is sad or not!!

I think I would feel more patriotic if we had a Prime Minister or a leader of any of the political parties who took the same stance as John Howard below.  Our local comprehensive school banned the traditional Christmas Lunch for pupils fearing it would upset the Muslim population, we have a Council who have cut back and disbanded most of the services for looking after the elderley, but spend money producing every leaflet and public facility sign in several different languages.  Makes you wonder if the Spanish people take the same view of us?

Prime Minister John Howard - Australia

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.

Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote:

'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.'

'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'

'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society. Learn the language!'


'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'

'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'

'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom,

'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.'

'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'

Maybe if we circulate this amongst ourselves, English citizens of whatever race, creed or colour will find the backbone to start speaking and voicing the same truths and allow themselves to rekindle the patriotism that put the Great in Great Britain.

Hi KELJU,

What a fantastic post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unfortunately the aussies seem to have more balls and less restrictions on what they are allowed to say.........

Can you imagine Gordon Brown coming out with something like that????

The there,there,there squad and human rights hippies would be on it like a shot...........

well done for posting what most are thinking..............

Unfortunately i fear the damage is beyond repair,

Well, if we substitute "Spain/Spanish" for Aussie in that foolish speech, then I wonder how many little Englanders living in Spain would feel. Also, anyone who knows anything about Royal etiquette would know that the right thing for Charles to do would be accept the Crown, as he can do nothing else, inspite of "WAT THE SUN SAYS". Pomp, Pageantry and PROTOCOL! What a depressing thread!  

Have to agree with Headless i'm afraid - just wonder how many of us forget we are guests in Spain ? It reminds me of the recent tv programme about Benidorm where the 'Beni' guy says who would want to live in Altea,isnt it full of Spaniards !!!

I guess i think our tolerance of other cultures in the UK is something to be very proud of and I have only experienced a similar generosity in Spain.

I also think we have a great capacity to cope with difficulties such as the London bombings -it was amazing being there the following day,I felt crazily proud.

 

It would be interesting to discover what proportion of the Brits who have made Spain their home, have achieved a working knowledge of Spanish. I suspect the 80:20 rule applies, ie. 80% haven't bothered! Or am I too cynical?

I suspect Brits in Spain speak a bit more Spanish than you think, and certainly more Spanish than some of the immigrants to the UK speak English. Having said that it is not just about the language. Most of those enering the UK take what they can get and send back home,out of the UK. Brits , especially the retired, take money into Spain.

Here is a scenario which I believe illustrates some of the UK problems.

My grand daughter  works in a care home.She is 20,has her NVQ1&2 and is working on NVQ3,her salary is £4.60 an hour.For that she has to deal with death and all the other problems that the old and infirm present.Lastweek she had an ear infection,the prescription cost over 1&1/2 hours salary.Today her tax has been doubled from 10% to 20% ut the higher earners have had their tax reduced from 22% to 20.

And yet ----- an aquaintance of mine had a BMW car for sale last week  for £2,500 An immigrant couple looked at it and asked him to hold it for them for a few hours.Later that day they returned with a cheque for the full amount, paid by the DHSS.

Like I said,it,s not just a language thing.

i have quite a few Spanish friends and the conversation usually turns to immigration and the British influx over a few drinks.

The majority of the Spanish in this area appreciate that we have increased the economy and infrastructure due to our arrival and of course unless you pay into the sytem here you get nothing back.

They expect you to understand them but they will meet you half way if you try.

They always tell me if you come here except the country and traditions and they will welcome you with open arms.

Mark- its not painting a great picture so far is it....................

What could we do to persuade Gordon Brown to go back to Scotland and get John Howard over here.?  We have strong Christian beliefs and the UK is a Christian country, not the "multi-faith" country we are told to accept to be "PC"! If people don't like it then they are free to leave...

 I truly fear for my 15 month old grand-daughter's future in this country. What will her national identity be.?  When I asked my daughter and son if they would consider emigrating, my son & his fiance said they were already thinking about it but surprisingly my daughter said England is "home". She would never feel the same  about another country.  We are a very close knit family.  If they both emigrated, we would go too, but if one stayed and one went away...that's a dilemma!

My husband and I would definitely emigrate if we were raising a young family.

I agree with Marksfish post too.

I have been considering this questions carefully since the original posting and at them moment I have to admit to struggling. There is so much about living in the UK that is leading us to our permanent move to Spain, that nothing positive is springing to mind. Maybe after we have lived abroad for 6 months, the negative issues here may fade and the good aspects may resurface. We have chosen to move to Spain to enjoy their culture and lifestyle, we are trying to learn the language as we do not expect them to speak to us in english, we are moving to Spain and are making every effort to fit in and adapt.

We have friends in America and have visited often and we have spent many an evening around the BBQ where they and their friends have often quizzed us about living in the UK, they have asked all sorts of questions but never this one, and in trying to envisage them asking the question, what makes you proud to be British- I really cannot come up with any immediate response, and that makes me feel really sad.

We have been living here for four years now and I have to admit that when we do go back to the UK we do see a lot of positives that we failed to notice and probably took for granted when we lived there. For example although everybody complains about it, the postal service is actually very reliable and efficient, British road users are to a pretty high standard with regards to  indicating etc, roads are signposted well so it is difficult to get lost. In fact, I could write a long list about the positive things that I am more aware of when I return.For one thing the libraries are fantastic. We are a nation of readers, shouldn't we be proud of that?

I tend not to look at the stuff that they go on about in The Mail. When I go back to my home town of Luton I see that there has been a huge influx of Polish people but I find them to be hardworking, well integrated and all speaking excellent English since they have to to survive. I guess the reason for the majority of the Brits not becoming fluent in Spanish is because they have no real need to learn Spanish well to survive.

Susan

Some good points there Susan but I still feel that the UK should look after it's own low payed and unfortunate better.It seems so unfair that  people from other countries can walk into the UK and get hand outs that our own hard working but low paid cannot get.

 

Some good points there Susan but I still feel that the UK should look after it's own low payed and unfortunate better.It seems so unfair that  people from other countries can walk into the UK and get hand outs that our own hard working but low paid cannot get.

No I agree with you Acapulco that the hard workers are in a way penalised for being just that. My cousin works in London. Her salary I should imagine is good, not brilliant. Her complaint is that after paying train fares and covering nursery fees, she barely earns anything. She is dedicated, hard working, gets up at a half five every morning to sort her children out, take them to nursery and catch a couple of trains into the city every day. Some would look at her enviously that she had the "city" job and everything but the truth is she is absolutely exhausted and her life would probably be easier if she 'opted out'.Then of course, there are those they are working for the ridiculous hourly rates as you mentioned before. My mum works in a care home and if it wasn't for the fact that her mortgage is paid off, there is no way that she could live on the salary.I don't know ,the balance is all wrong and it is unfair that young people like Acapulco's daughter who have studied and worked hard aren't being recognised for their efforts. I do find it hard to accept that the DHSS are handing out cheques for BMWs. How would they go about applying for it? To be honest I don't have a clue about the current benefit system but if they are handing out cheques for cars, it's time to go back me thinks!

Susan

Agree with your first post Susan.  It's when you've been away from England for a while that you appreciate things you took for granted before you left.  The thing that springs to mind with me is Customer Service!!! (They should send the girls in Mercadona and Carrefour to a 6 month intensive Waitrose CC course!!!)  Another thing I appreciate is politeness.  An Italian frined of mine moved back to Italy about 5 years ago after 20 years + in the UK.  He returned with his family early last year - his reason - he could not stand the bad manners!  No 'please' nor 'thank you', not even if you held the door open for someone!  He didn't want his daughter to grow up like that....

Ooops, how did that happen ? my reply to Susan has been displayed as Susans post !

Apologies to Susan and all but I do not know how to correct it.

I know what you mean VickiT about  the supermarket staff.They can generally be a bit lucklustre although you do sometimes get a real chirpy one. If staff are working  on commisson they are usually really helpful and friendly.It usually helps if you take a couple of small children with you and they instantly warm to you then and are really friendly! Mine are nearly six now and are starting to lose their cuteness so I am getting a bit panicky as it was quite nice when shop staff used to make a fuss over them and give good service. It's no reason to go getting pregnant though!

The other evening we walked into a kitchen shop and the assistant was in the middle of a phone conversation. She didn't acknowledge us. I quite liked some of the stuff that they had on display in the showroom so I was prepared to wait until she had finished. She was on the phone for ages and Justin finally got fed up and said "Come on, let's go".I was prepared to wait but when I think about it, although she probably gets loads of time wasters through the door, we were serious so she let up to  15,000 euros walk out the door. If I were the shop owner I would be furious with a member of staff like that.

As for politeness sometimes I quite enjoy saying "Give me" without the please and not saying "thank you" in Spain.It makes me feel kind of rude and reckless without people batting an eyelid or noticing.Oh I'm such a rebel! It's the kind of behaviour that I could never get away with in England without some looks of disgust. At first I used to feel a bit "lost" without the pleases and thank you that are second nature to us. I kind of like getting into character and being a bit brusque without being horrible if you know what I mean. My dad is Italian and I used to get so embarrassed with his abrubt, direct manner. It's funny that I don't notice it so much nowadays.

Susan

This message was last edited by EOS Team on 4/3/2008.

Thats interesting.Customer service and manners are 2 things I feel have got worse in the UK in recent years and yet when we stayed at a small hotel in Guardamar earlier this year we found the staff very freindly and they went out of their way to help when we had a problem.We also found the shop assistants in the Mercado and the Pharmacia that we used very freindly and polite.

I guess opinions are all down to personal experiences.

No Acapulco, it hasn't.  I meant Susan's post about positive aspects of the UK that you forget about when you've been away for a while...........

That being on the phone thing has happened to me too, although in a Travel Agents. The guy didn't even acknowledge our presence but just carried on talking to his friend about the good time they had the night before.  At the insistence of my (Spanish) OH, we too walked out!

Another kitchen one for you, I walked into a place in Estepona yesterday, bearing in mind I am serious about a kitchen. Anyway,the lady at the front waspleasant enough and I explained that I wanted someone to come out and measure up asap. I left all our details and has anybody called yet? If it were my shop in the current climate I would be on the phone chasing the business but they obviously don't need it.

Susan

That was me Acapulco, I quoted your post since I was responding to it in a roundabout way. Sorry to confuse you.

Susan

Off thread I know (Sorry!) but, Susan, have you tried the English Kitchen Shop (I think that's what it's called) in the parade of shops just before Carrefour in Estepona - I found them very helpful (and polite!!) and they did phone follow-ups too.

My OH came to live in UK back in the 60's when you had to prove that you had a job and could support yourself.  He is much more patriotic about Britain than me who was born here. But we have both become totally dissatisfied with the current state of things and can't wait until we're old enough to retire and move to Spain.

As previous posters have mentioned, those of us who are stupid enough to work get taxed at every turn yet if you are just too idle to move from in front of Trisha or some such drivel you get every benefit going.  Then when you get too old to care for yourself the government will take your hard earned savings including your home to pay for your care. There is no incentive to be hard working anymore. And don't start me on asylum seekers! If you've come all the way from some distant shore and travelled through several European countries why settle in UK. Oh yes BENEFITS. I have to add I have NO problems with genuine economic migrants who are doing the jobs that the lazy natives will not get out of bed for.

I work in a London borough that translates everything into any language you can think of. WHY?? I'll admit my Spanish isn't very good but I don't expect any favours I'm making the choice to live in a different country and it's my responsibility to learn the language.

OH and I totally agree with the Australian PM. OH is a muslim and celebrates both faiths festivals and has NO problem. UK is a Christian country. Most muslim countries are not as tolerant to other faiths.

So what am I proud of?  Our history, our food, our culture and innovations. Our countryside (where it still exists), old fashioned pubs, little country roads and villages (although lived in one once and it was hell), our attempts to play the sports that we taught everyone else, our ability to pick ourselves up and get on with it (Dunkirk spirit?).

Susan, I'm afraid the ignoring in shops thing is across the board.  I've lost count of the number of places I've walked out of in UK due to lack of service. Supermarkets are the worst. But I think some of that is a London thing. 

I'd better stop as I'm rapidly turning into grumpy old woman.......

Susan -- confusing me is't to difficult,wife and grandkids do it all the time.

I agree Sonia the country lanes, the pretty villages, the pubs but the sad thing is if you go for a walk around such villages, unless the weather is really good, there is rarely a soul to be seen. I lived in a village in Kent for a while and it wasn't my thing to be honest, I felt more like a foreigner than I do in Spain!

Okay, here's something to be proud of, British comedy of course!


Susan