resident or non resident tax

I have paid spanish income tax upon my uk income for several years. I do not yet have residencia or what ever it is now called. Would anyone know whether the tax rates/ allowances are different depending on ones residencial status. thanks .

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I asked a perfectly simple question to which you do not have the answer. Instead  you proceed to lecture me; how arrogant.

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Jeryf    I asked a perfectly simple question to which you do not have the answer

 

Sorry, but when I said,   “ I am sure you understand  you are obliged by law to register on the EU Citizens Register immediately  if your centre of activities are in Spain.”   

That was the answer to your 'perfectly simple'  question.

As you pay tax here, as you explained,  that clearly applies to you.

 

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jeryf-Johnx was not arrogant-he merely pointed out a fact that you should have known anyway!

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 Hold on a minute

Jeryf said

I have paid spanish income tax upon my uk income for several years.

I don't believe that anyone can pay income tax in Spain without having a fiscal reference number (NIE)

So, Jery is either confused about what typre of tax he has been paying or he is already resident without him realising.

Either way there is no reason to adopt the moral high ground without first fully understanding the problem

Jeryf, are our sure it's not non resident property tax you have been paying? If you really have been paying Income Tax, could your laweyer or accountant have registered you as resident and obtained your NIE certificate without you realising? (POA) 

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 I think everyone is confused here, no doubt due to the rather startling original question!

The question was: "Would anyone know whether the tax rates/ allowances are different depending on ones residencial status."

John's response did not in anyway address the actual question, and was absolutely arrogantly lecturing in its tone. The fact that Jeryf should have known about his obligation to register on the foreign residents register is irrelevant to the question. And I don't think Jeryf can be referring to non-resident property tax, as he stated that he's been paying income tax in Spain on his UK income. Having an NIE does not determine where you are fiscally resident either - a non-resident property owner has an NIE too. Come on guys, surely we can do better than this?

It is a little hard to answer the question without knowing more, because it doesn't quite make sense, but one would have to assume that Jeryf is already registered as a fiscal resident (regardless of whether he ever signed on the bloody foreign residents register), since he says he has been paying tax in Spain on his UK income - so the question is a bit pointless as it would appear that for tax purposes, he is already resident in Spain. If he is not, then he should not be paying tax in Spain on UK income, and the allowances and rates are obviously likely to be different if he pays his tax in the jurisdiction where he is actually tax resident.

I suggest you seek professionjal advice, Jeryf - this forum probably isn't going to be much help!

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Ref Non residents Tax .. NIE.   I was given to understand that as a home owner in Spain as a (holiday property) we needed and obtianed an NIE Number to purchase the house and in fact other goods/ services such as bank accounts  need an NIE number.

If you are non resident and paying tax in the UK on your income surely you dont need to pay anything to the Spanish Government unless you are renting out a holiday property and recieving income which is taxable .

Some people on the forum are so insulting i e  (know it all JOHN X) .........and always backed up by his adoring follower... Camposol It was know as bullying at school

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Aliton, yes, the NIE is a foreigners identity number. It is also the same number as the NIF (f for fiscal replacing the e for extranjero). If you own a property in Spain and are not resident, you have to pay a non resident income tax each year as the taxman deems this holiday home as a benefit in kind. Our non-res tax was just over 60 euros a year but bear in mind that is each, so if the property is in joint names you each pay that tax. If you rent out your property, you don't pay it but your tax is then worked out on your rental income.
This non-res tax will vary and ours was based on a 2 bed apartment.
When living here permanently, you should complete a tax return each year. In my case, I pay no tax as my forces pension is still taxed in UK and my private pension is under the allowance in Spain.

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Aliton

Ref Non residents Tax .. NIE.   I was given to understand that as a home owner in Spain as a (holiday property) we needed and obtained an NIE Number to purchase the house and in fact other goods/ services such as bank accounts  need an NIE number.

(I am used to ignoring silly comments, so I will try to answer your question).

In order to buy a property in Spain (or make significant financial transactions) one must get an NIE number, it is a tax ID number for foreigners (Numero de Identidad de Extranjeros).

 If you own a property in Spain, but are not tax resident then you must pay, the so called ‘Non Resident property owners tax.’   On a form 210.  If you let then you must also pay tax on the income. In some circumstances, which I will not bore you with, non-residents also must pay Wealth Tax (Patrimonio Tax).

Of course, as non tax resident, you do not pay tax on your worldwide income /assets as a Tax resident must.

PS  Oops, Bobaol, I posted just as you did, so I have duplicated your post.
 

This message was last edited by johnzx on 15/05/2013.

This message was last edited by johnzx on 15/05/2013.

This message was last edited by johnzx on 15/05/2013.

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I suggest the OP rephrases his original question, because clearly nobody actually understands what he asked, and instead just want to ramble on about their pet issues.

What a pathetic load of rubbish.

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That time of month, Roberto?

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Jeryf   I am sure you understand  you are obliged by law to register on the EU Citizens Register immediately  if your centre of activities are in Spain.

Incorrect and misleading. Again.

The requirement to register is based on nothing more and nothing less than the number of consecutive days in the country, which in this case, is 90. If you spend multiple periods of say, 88 days, there is no requirement whatever to register.

This has zero to do with the phrase "centre of activities" which more properly relates to situations regarding tax residence/domicile, which are unconnected with the 'registration' issue. No connection whatever.

 

 

 

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I suggest the OP rephrases his original question, because clearly nobody actually understands what he asked, and instead just want to ramble on about their pet issues.

What a pathetic load of rubbish.

 

I beg to differ. 

The question:-     

                      "Would anyone know whether the tax rates/ allowances are different depending on ones residencial status. thanks "     

 appears to be pretty straightforward, although I agree no one (including me) seems to have addressed it.

 

 

This message was last edited by johnzx on 16/05/2013.

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 OK, if it's pretty straightforward, why don't you at least attempt to answer it, instead of pedantically banging on about people referring to the state of being resident, or signing on the foreign residents register, as "residencia", just because you don't like them calling it that?

It's not straightforward, because the question doesn't quite make sense really, but my best attempt would be this: if you are fiscally resident in Spain, Spanish tax allowances and rates will apply. If you are fiscally resident in another country, that country's tax allowances and rates will apply. However, I don't think this is really what the OP wants to know, which is why I suggested he rephrases his question to help us better understand exactly what he is trying to find out.

Meanwhile, he has probably given up anyway and gone searching for a better source of information since the responses here are just ill-informed, idiotic and insulting.

What a pathetic forum this has become.

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Meanwhile, he has probably given up anyway and gone searching for a better source of information since the responses here are just ill-informed, idiotic and insulting.

 

I would not go that far, I think you have tried to give the best advise you can.

And I thought, Bobaol and I, giving practically the same answer, didn't do that bad.
 

This message was last edited by johnzx on 16/05/2013.

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Aliton-I am not Johnx 's adoring follower; If you read our posts you will know I often disagree with him.however I respect his knowledge and opinions. Do you think  that you do not have to pay anything as a non resident  unless you are renting out your property? I suggest you research non resident taxes, particularly imputed tax.

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"I think you have tried to give the best advise you can. And I thought, Bobaol and I, giving practically the same answer, didn't do that bad". 

You mean, giving the same answer as each other, not me? After all, you both talked about non-resident tax on Spanish property. I still fail to see what that has to do with the original question, which pertained to paying tax in Spain, on income derived in the UK. Am I really the only one who has even read the original question?

Anyway, we've clearly all scared off the OP with this ridiculous exchange, so we might as well carry on amusing ourselves...

 "In some circumstances, which I will not bore you with, non-residents also must pay Wealth Tax (Patrimonio Tax)".

Try me. I'm sure I won't be bored by your explanation of the cirmustances under which a non-resident would pay wealth tax.

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Roberto    ......................... under which a non-resident would pay wealth tax.

 

Copied from:-       http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/tax-and-pensions/property-taxes-for-non-residents/

Wealth tax for non-residents

The tax is based on the net value of you property (less mortgage, if any) or another value deemed appropriate by the tax authorities, with a tax-free allowance of €700,000. The tax rate works on a sliding scale with marginal rates starting at 0.2% and rising to 2.5%.

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 I was right - I wasn't bored! Of course, I am neither a non-resident, nor have over 700K in assets in Spain, hence I wasn't aware of this! In fact, this is very interesting. This means individuals with a property or other assets in Spain worth more than 700K would have to pay wealth tax in Spain - as well as quite possibly pay wealth tax on those same assets in their country of fiscal residency, if they have a similar wealth tax whereby residents are taxed on their worldwide assets. Thank God I don't qualify!

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