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Hi All
I have been away from the site for a while now Sorry but still enjoy the content,. My post is a rather unfortunate one where my wife had her bag & purse stolen by an opportunist at Lidl Calahonda with all the usual cards, cash, car keys etc. It wasn't until she got to the checkout that she realised her loss. Lidl staff called the Police emergency line for us but that was it no report nothing. This is our first such instance since living here in Spain for the last 20 months.
OK panic, help all that sort of thing. denunciation report raised, cards stopped but nothing else no statement of events, description of my wife requested etc from my wife for the shop or police in order to investigate the incident with CCTV systems in place in order to build up a profile etc of what is a regular event along the costa. When in the Police station sigining the denuncia I asked about follow up to be told that they have a department that deals with this sort of crime. But how if they don't collate all the detail.
So what happens next how can they find or compile case histroy without full information, are we therefore just feeding the economy of these unscrupulous characters and just expected to claim on insurance if covered for this type of event
Any other thooughts on this
regards
Timba
_______________________
regards
Timba
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timba
so sorry to read that. Did you ask to see the CCTV footage for the period when the bag/purse was stolen?, or did the police?. You would think it would be in the shop's interest to catch this scum bag.
It's not suprising it's a regular event along the costa if the police can't even be bothered to take all information possible and set up a case history. What message does that give to the criminals!
I would think you are just expected to claim on your insurance, and that of course sends premiums through the roof, but of course that's of no concern to the police. They prefer chasing soft targets like motorists going a few miles an hour over the speed limit to chasing real criminals sadly.
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Sorry Timba but I find the info supplied
confusing.
If you are the victim of a crime in Spain, it
should be reported to the Policia Nacional or the Guardia Civil. (not the Local Police) OR, you can call 902
102 112 (available 24 hours a day every
day) and give the details in any of several languages, including English. You can nominate any National Police Station
where you would like to sign the actual report within 48 hours (until it is
signed you have not made a 'denuncia'
that's Spanish for a crime report) and you will be given a reference number, so
the police can find the info on the police computer. It is not a crime report number. If you
are able to ID the suspect you will be asked to look at photos.
Note. You cannot make a crime report to the police in the street / at the
scene of a
crime.
Having signed the Crime Report you will be
given a copy. After any immediate action
that is necessary has been taken, the report will go before a judge who will
direct what further steps are to be taken.
Unfortunately you probably will not get to
hear what is done unless further info is required, a person is arrested or your
property is recovered. That does not mean
that you cannot go to the police station, for the area where the crime occurred
and ask for an up-date.
(I have been a volunteer interpreter with
the police for 17 years. If you think I
can answer any of your questions please ask.)
Goodstick44. Sorry to say, but your post is not correct and thus not helpful
This message was last edited by johnzx on 18/08/2011.
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johnzx
well done for giving good info' and advice, sounds like you could be a real help. I was just forming an opinion based on personal experience.
Can you let me know which part of my post you feel is not correct?. If I'm wrong that's fair enough, but surely it must be an urgent matter to take all possible details, CCTV footage etc ASAP?, or is that not how it works?
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Goodstich44
I am reluctant to comment but as you ask.
QUOTE so sorry to read that. Did you ask to see the CCTV footage for the period when the bag/purse was stolen?, or did the police?. How would he know if the police did? You would think it would be in the shop's interest to catch this scum bag. They probably do
It's not surprising it's a regular event along the Costa if the police can't even be bothered to take all information possible and set up a case history. What message does that give to the criminals! The Crime Report would contain all the relevant info the victim can supply. Also the police do make many arrests but of course the general public are not privy to that info.
I would think you are just expected to claim on your insurance, and that of course sends premiums through the roof, but of course that's of no concern to the police. The police do want to stop crime and arrest criminals They prefer chasing soft targets like motorists going a few miles an hour over the speed limit to chasing real criminals sadly. Not true. although of course anyone who breaks the law is liable to prosecution.
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johnzx
thanks for your reply.
On the first point, couldn't the victim request the info' from the police on what they had found on the CCTV footage?, surely that's not to much to ask, even if not in detail?
On the second point, it doesn't sound like the police took even took the obvious details the victim expected at the time?
On the third point, sadly it is true. The police do often go for soft targets. It's less work and easy revenue, but I guess we will agree to differ on that one.
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Goodstich44
As I said, Timba's post was not clear to me thus I don't know what he did or did not do nor what the police did or did not do in his case..
I have explained what the police really do when a crime is reported.,. Not guessed or assumed.
Anyone guessing what might have happened in any particular circumstances is not helpful.
Also the general idea that the police chase soft target, get days off for arresting people and a whole host of other red herrings are often quoted but again are incorrect and not helpful.
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johnzx
I agree we can only guess, and that's what the victim will be doing if the CCTV was not made available to them very soon after the crime!. By the tone of the victim of the crime, the least helpful thing that really mattered was the police!
As for those 'red herrings' ?. I hope you said that with tonque firmly in cheek?.
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Goodstich44,
Sorry I forgot to add that apart from 17 years as a volunteer with the police here in Spain (and thus have direct knowledge of what really happens so I don't need to guess) I was also a career CID officer in London for 30 years, so again I speak with knowledge of the reality,
Again I say, I cannot understand what Timba or his wife actually did after his wife, apparently carelessly left her bag to be stolen ( she did not notice it had gone until she was at the check-out). He does not make it clear if he actually made a crime report at a police station, if he did then all the info which he says was not requested would have formed part of a crime report.
On the matter of the insurance company paying out and premiums rising. As it appears they live in Spain and therefore woud be insured in Spain, if they are insured, then from my understanding the company will not pay out. (On travel insurance from UK they possibly could make a claim).
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john
my uncle plus a friend were police officers and in CID in the UK until they retired, so I have a fair idea of the reality.
Perhaps they were the only slightly bent ones in the force eh?  .
Anyway, all the best to the victim of this crime, and lets hope the police stay on the case and get in contact with news, good or bad. Hearing nothing leads you believe 'nothing' is being followed up.
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Goodstick,
May I suggest you have a word with your uncle and your friend, even second hand info is better than assumptions.
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C'mon John, with all due respect, that's how I have a fair idea of the reality, as I'm sure you do!. Let's not try and pull the wool eh.
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Sorry to be so frank Goodstitch but you clearly are a know it all that knows nothing and summises plenty.... about this subject anyway.
Why oh why can't you accept what someone that actually knows something says and move on to another thread where you BS may find appreciative readers!
This message was last edited by Fighter2 on 18/08/2011.
This message was last edited by Fighter2 on 18/08/2011.
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Fighter
thanks for the kind words.
Anyway, back to the thread title. Let's hope we get some positive news soon about how the thief has been caught or at least perhaps something of a positive outcome?. I doubt it though somehow?.
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Hi All
Many thanks for the replies but to clarify: The shop did call the emergency number and I raised the the denunciation which was then signed the next day. the shop at no time requested us to raise a report, and as an ex operations manager for a shopping centre I am aware of procedures and my wife is very carefull and aware. I queried the CCTV cameras with the manager and had no response not even can we raise a store report etc.
When attending the police station to sign the report again I questioned what would happen now and again mention the CCTV cameras but there was no response other than to say that 'we have a department that deals with this' type of crime. so unless they take the info from the denunciation there was nothing more given to assist them.
So how does it work, do we literally have to insist a shop raises a report to assist please offer any advice should it be required in the future so that we can all assist in reducing this type of crime by these individuals.
regards
timba
_______________________
regards
Timba
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Timba,
I can guess but I have never heard the expression 'raising a report' I assume you mean to make or produce a report.
You do not mention your standard of Spanish thus we do not know what may have been lost in 'misunderstandings' which may account for any confusion.
The Spanish police in the same way as it used to be in UK (until it was regrettably changed in some forces) have the equivalent to the CID that investigates crime. The person whom you saw in the office of Denuncias does precisely as in your case, records (or obtains from the report made on the phone) the allegation.
As I hoped I had made clear, once you have made the crime report (that is signed it) the matter is reviewed by a judge who directs how the investigation should proceed. The loser does not direct how the investigation will proceed. That would effectively be the same in UK, so it should not be surprising. In Spain it is not the 'way things are done' for the polce to keep you informed of any progess in the investigation.
I have no doubt that in your case the police subsequently visited the store and obtained whatever evidence was available. They are professionals.
I would point out that the way any country proceeds in any kind of operation is the way they have chosen to do it. Sometimes that might be similar to the way it is done in UK although more often that not it is different. Thus, there is no point in using UK criteria to guess what might or might not happen.
I hope this has helped
John
This message was last edited by johnzx on 18/08/2011.
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Timba
john said ''In Spain it is not the 'way things are done' for the polce to keep you informed of any progess in the investigation''
.......well that's really helpful of the police isn't it, whatever country?. So you are just left wondering if anything is being done, and you are not even told what is on the CCTV cameras. Wonderful!!
At the very least you need to know what is on the camera's, or at least know that possibly the only evidence has been saved?
When I had a car bumped in a leisure centre car park recently, I had one week to trawl the footage on the CCTV. If it's the same in Spain you might need to work fast unless they keep all footage on a hard drive so it's not wiped?
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Tomba,
with respect, that sort of comment tends (with reasonable justification) to give the British a bad reputation, in that it appears we expect the whole world to do it our way.
Having travelled some, I know and respect that each country has it's own way of doing things. If I really don't like that, then I know that country is not for me and thus would avoid it.
On the present point. I did say in my first post that if a victim wishes to know what the progress is in a particular investigation you can go to the police station for the area where the crime was committed and ask. Sorry but that seems reasonable to me.
I can assure you, having 'insider' experience of both, that in most cases the attention a victim receives in Spain is at least equal to that in UK and the number of police where I live in Spain is considerably greater than in a comparable town in UK. (Many are in plain clothes, so unless you know they are police you not normally be aware of them)
I might add in passing, that in some countries (and in Spain in Franco's day) anyone failing to take reasonable care of their property, thus permitting it to be easily stolen, might be prosecuted. In effect, it amounts to wasting police time.
I would not normally mention a particular case but as you are so critical of the Spanish system: As I said previously, if your wife was not ware that the property had been taken until (sometime afterwards) when she arrived at the check-out, forgive me for saying, it would seem pretty obvious that she was careless and that it was therefore likely that such carelessness lead to the theft and, therefore, unnecessary use of police manpower.
This message was last edited by johnzx on 19/08/2011.
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Fully agree with this and what you say in your other posts on this thread.
"Having travelled some, I know and respect that each country has it's own way of doing things. If I really don't like that, then I know that country is not for me and thus would avoid it."
This is also true:
" in most cases the attention a victim receives in Spain is at least equal to that in UK and the number of police where I live in Spain is considerably greater than in a comparable town in UK. (Many are in plain clothes, so unless you know they are police you not normally be aware of them)"
Patricia
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Timba
well it shows how important it is, to be dealing with an officer of the law worthy of their badge who will do everything they can to track down the criminal rather than blaming the victim!
Good luck once again, and hope the CCTV will come up with something?
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