25 Feb 2017 11:24 PM:

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This message was last edited by MarkMunns on 25/02/2017.

Thread: WHAT IS A SPANISH PROPERTY REALY WORTH

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25 Feb 2017 8:51 PM:

By the way mark, did you say something about me saying the buyers and sellers have equal force?   

No I said that your intial response that the determination of 'worth' was a "two-way" thing implies that you think both the buyer and seller exert equal force in determining what something is worth.

Please don't make things up to support your own argument because that isn't something I will say.  

I don't have to make anything up about that implication because you never questioned that conclusion and in fact, you have implied the same again when you write:  

My consistent view is  that an item is worth what a buyer is willing to've  pay and a seller is willing to accept.   That's what I say because that's what's true.

It doesn't become 'true' just because you erroneously think it is nor because you want it to be so. In fact, when it can be proved to be false using examples showing that ONLY the buyers determined the worth of something during a sale (e.g. the car example), it is a sign of a mental disorder to continue clinging to the same erroneous view.      

Thread: WHAT IS A SPANISH PROPERTY REALY WORTH

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25 Feb 2017 8:35 PM:

The example you used as two people barter over a car (I assume you can accept that's not a straw man argument when you use it). 

You might want to look up the meaning of a straw-man argument. The situational setting used for an example isn't any kind of argument - much less a straw-man argument.

It's the answers that you give to the questions stemming from that situation that are straw-man arguments and are intellectually dishonest when they address questions that were never asked while obviously avoiding the one that was.

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However that completion only occurs AFTER 'worth' has been established and ONLY the Buyers decided that 'worth' in the car example. Yes, the seller needs to accept the final offer but he was NEVER a factor in how that price was reached by the competing buyers.   

So, the question again is: What force is a seller exerting upon the final value/worth of an item when two or more buyers are engaged in a bidding war?

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Thread: WHAT IS A SPANISH PROPERTY REALY WORTH

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25 Feb 2017 7:46 PM:

"I don't see anything in your description of markets that says auctions or houses either."

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FWIW, it also doesn't say anything about eBay, Amazon, car boot sales, garage sales, goods being sold at local fetes etc. etc. etc. either.

So are they all disqualified from the definition of 'markets' too? Do you actually consider what you're going to write before touching the keyboard? 

However, the Dictionary's definition does include:

"an open place or a covered building where buyers and sellers convene for the sale of goods"

AND

"a meeting of people for selling and buying".
 
Are those acccurate descriptions of Auctions? If not, why not?
Is there anything in those definitions that disqualifies Auctions?

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1. The original poster stated that a property's worth is determined by the buyer.
2. You replied that its worth was a "two-way" thing - which implied that both the buyer and seller were of equal force in determining what something is 'worth'.

For that to be true, you would have to be able to show what force a seller is exerting in the final value/worth of an item when two or more buyers are engaged in a bidding war.

If you can show that the seller is exerting equal, two-way' force in determining the final price, you have made your case, If not, then your original assertion that both buyer and seller have an equal impact on 'worth' is incorrect. 

 

This message was last edited by MarkMunns on 25/02/2017.

This message was last edited by MarkMunns on 25/02/2017.

This message was last edited by MarkMunns on 25/02/2017.

This message was last edited by MarkMunns on 25/02/2017.

Thread: WHAT IS A SPANISH PROPERTY REALY WORTH

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25 Feb 2017 6:46 PM:

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"Auctions by the way are not market conditions, they are auctions."

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You seem to like inventing your own definitions of 'worth' and 'auctions' to support the unsupportable and avoid having to admit being wrong (wouldn't we all like to do that) but unfortunately, that's not how the real world works. 

The Picasso question is a very lame, straw-man argument and also wrong but let's not deviate any further. I get the feeling you introduced it as a distraction to avoid having to explain in what way is the seller determining the value/worth when buyers are engaged in a bidding war that has exceeded the asking price - (which would support your hypothesis that sellers/buyers are equal two-way determinants of 'worth'.

Whether it takes place in an auction - or during gazumping outside of an auction - or when two buyers show up to buy an advertised car and engage in offering more than is being asked, the seller plays no part in determining the final value or worth - only the buyers do that. 

Or will you just keep disputing that any examples given will not conform to your (unilaterally derived) definition of 'market conditions' ? 

 

This message was last edited by MarkMunns on 25/02/2017.

This message was last edited by MarkMunns on 25/02/2017.

Thread: WHAT IS A SPANISH PROPERTY REALY WORTH

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