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Acer, what in your knowledge of contract law deems that the contact signed by OP could be invalid. Intrigued because many people have problems with contracts and hope you will share the info into this complex law.
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Nicky, ( if you are still following this thread, seems maybe the rest of us are ‘chatting amongst ourselves). As none of us know what the terms of your contract are, and without knowing that, even contract experts cannot give to reasonable advice, so this is just for info.
I know you are in Spain but I would think the law is not that much different from UK. I have heard of Estate Agents suing people in Spain in similar circumstances.
This is from CAB in UK
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/housing_w/housing_moving_and_improving_your_home_e/problems_with_buying_and_selling_a_home.htm
You want to use an additional estate agent
If you have been using one estate agent this is known as ‘sole agency’. When you agree a sole agency with an estate agent the contract will usually state how long this period of sole agency will last. At the end of this period you are free to use one or more additional estate agents.
If you use one or more additional estate agents before the period of sole agency has come to an end, you are breaking the contract with the original estate agent. This means that if the new estate agent finds a buyer for the house you would have to pay commission not only to the new estate agent but also to the agent with whom you had the sole agency agreement. If the original agent found a buyer, the amount of commission that the seller would have to pay to the new estate agent would depend on the type of agreement you had with them.
However, you may be able to negotiate changing the sole agency agreement to a joint sole agency agreement with the original estate agency.
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Floella, thank you for the kind invitation, even if there was a little barb attached. It is complex and I know enough to be aware that some of the comments on this thread are unduly simplistic. But the reality is that it is highly likely that the finer points of Contract Law will have little bearing whatever on how this unfortunate situation is resolved.
If it settled amicably it will most likely be by discussion. IMHO involving solicitors and waffling on about Contract Law will achieve nothing.
It is does no harm to let the other party know your side of the matter in a clear, simple and concise manner. This is best done in writing so there is a chance that the other party has the opportunity to understand your point of view which is less likely during a heated discussion, even more so with the language barrier.
If written well they may also realise that their position is not quite so strong as they assumed and possibly feel more inclined to compromise.
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Don't argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
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Acer, no barb intended, sorry that you read it that way. You wrote " it sounds like there is good evidence to suggest it is totally invalid" and I was simply inquiring , as you said you knew a little about contact law, what you were basing this invalidity on especially as we are all giving our 5p worth just on hearsay from OP. Plus there appear to be 2 contracts that according to OP both she and prospective buyers signed but without seeing what exactly they contained on-one can make positive statements other than suggesting a meeting of all parties to discuss an amicable outcome.
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Floella,
Sorry I'm not interested in chewing the cud on Contract Law. I've made what I hope is a helpful suggestion to Nicky and I see absolutely no benefit in trying to lecture/teach others on a subject upon which I know only a little about.
It's too easy to get bogged down with irrelevant detail and I believe that Nicky is far better off in communicating with the Spanish guy and letting him know that there are two sides to the story. A bit of deja vu is creeping in here.
_______________________
Don't argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
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Well, Nicky, seems consensus of opinion on this thread is that negotiation is the way forward and am sure I am not alone in hoping it is successful and you sell your house without further hassle.
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Am I reading the same thread as others ?
Nicky
The Spanish agent now wants to denounce everyone involved and is intimidating everyone. the family who want to buy my property are frightened as well as they signed a paper at the agents office and now he says that he has exclusive rights over the sale with them…………….
………The fact that he is threatening and not being reasonable is making me stand my ground……..
It would seem from Nicky’s posts that reasonable negotiation and or compromise are not on the menu. The agent is threatening legal action.
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Seems almost everyone missed that posting by Nicky ,John. However don't think the house will get sold , in the near future as he may have tied the vendor into a time scale as well as exclusivity, unless some attempts are made at negotiation. In this market, if I thought this particular sale was possible, then I personally would try. However must make a final observation in that IMHO it is the prospective buyers who really are to blame for this mess and they are Spanish so, even of Nicky feels conned, must have understood what they were signing for. Just hope all turns out well in the end.
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Floella,
mind you if she really can sell then she might as well pay the 5,000. Most sellers would jump at the chance to sell at almost any price.
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ElaineG, If I read Nicky's posting correctly her house was also advertised as €5000 cheaper by English agent. So €7,000 against €10,000. If Nicky was happy at the price then Spanish agent would surely reduce his as long as his commission is the same. An interesting discussion but hypothetical as Nicky seems to have disappeared.
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No Ive not vanished, I just dont have the time to be on the computer all day. I am greatful for all the comments. It looks like the buyers are going to back, totaly intimidated by the Spanish agent who hasnt stopped hounding them. I am totaly gutted. THe English agent hs been a real gentlman through it all,he hasnt been pushy and right from the beginning said he would back off if it meant that I or the buyers would be messed around.
I just want to get the property out of the hands of theat agent now as I dont trust him & I am 100% sure he manipulated the paperwork. I am so angry at myself that I trusted this man & fell into a trap.
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Cheers Luv
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No Ive not vanished, I just dont have the time to be on the computer all day. I am greatful for all the comments. It looks like the buyers are going to back, totaly intimidated by the Spanish agent who hasnt stopped hounding them. I am totaly gutted. THe English agent hs been a real gentlman through it all,he hasnt been pushy and right from the beginning said he would back off if it meant that I or the buyers would be messed around.
I just want to get the property out of the hands of theat agent now as I dont trust him & I am 100% sure he manipulated the paperwork. I am so angry at myself that I trusted this man & fell into a trap.
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Cheers Luv
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Nicky, I am 100% sure he manipulated the paperwork.
In which case, you are saying he committed fraud, a criminal offence.
As long as you are 100% sure and not just assuming, then make a denuncia to the police for your area (National or Guardia).
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Your suggestion surprises me Johnzx - I really cannot think it is sound. Even if Nicky is 100% sure, so what ! She cannot prove it and may well ending up shooting herself in the foot.
You never go into battle unless you know you are going to win. In this instance the current evidence is not at all favourable so a more softly, softly approach makes sense.
_______________________
Don't argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
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Acer: Your suggestion surprises me Johnzx - I really cannot think it is sound. Even if Nicky is 100% sure, so what ! She cannot prove it (???) and may well ending up shooting herself in the foot.
You never go into battle unless you know you are going to win. In this instance the current evidence is not at all favourable so a more softly, softly approach makes sense.
100% sure can only mean she knows for sure, just as if my pocket is picked I know for 100% sure, and I can make a denuncia.
As I said, "if she is 100% sure." If that is so, you cannot say, "She cannot prove it." You and I do not KNOW that, only she does. It’s for her to know and for her to decide.
This message was last edited by johnzx on 22/10/2013.
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I understood that in Spain, Denouncias are an extreme measure, to be used very sparingly. You seem to know more about the Police than me, but surely in the absence of any evidence in Nicky's favour they won't be able to take any meaningful action and there may be repercussions from the Spanish agent.
_______________________
Don't argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
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Acer, You seem to know more about the Police than me
If you check the info 'about me' you will see where I am coming from.
A 'Denuncia' in Spain is an allegation of crime. In UK it’s a Crime Report. Thus changing a contract, by addition or subtraction, with intent to defraud, is a crime in Spain just as in UK.
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Johnzx, but surely making allegations of a crime you cannot substantiate would be a risky business? Presumably there is defamation legislation in Spain too.
_______________________
Don't argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
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Acer Johnzx, but surely making allegations of a crime you cannot substantiate would be a risky business? Presumably there is defamation legislation in Spain too.
But the whole point is that Nicky is saying she is 100% sure a crime has been committed. She can substantiate it, she knows it happened. Of course without some independent evidence it might be difficult to prove (we don’t know. We can only guess).
Nicky is in exactly the position as I would be if my pocket was picked. Only I could prove it (if no one else witnessed it) but I can report it: It happened. Nicky would not be making a false report (which would be a crime in Spàin) she knows it happened. She is a victim.
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As I previously wrote it appears to me that it was the prospective buyers that caused the problem. Nicky said they had signed a contract with the estate agent and then within 24 hours tried to broker a better deal with another and got found out. This is a typical Spanish trick. Whatever the contract Nicky signed ( its a pity she has only given her opinions without providing info) I doubt it would have tied her in for life and until her term of the contract runs out, she can avoid dealing with him. I doubt there is a law that can insist any buyers he sends can be shown around her property however suggest she also remove the property from other agents for the duration. Better safe than sorry. I rather suspect that this gentlemanly English agent also requires prospective buyers to sign a similar contract once they have taken a buyer to a property because what most are afraid of is that deals will be done to exclude them. In UK normally an agent requests exclusivity for 3 months and then , for a higher fee that will be shared will other agents, seller will arrange to share details with other agents. John was totally correct. IF Nicky is 100% sure the paperwork was manipulated ..AND HAS PROOF TO BACK UP HER STATEMENT...then she must denounce. By doing so might show up his mal practises. However as she admits leaving agent to fill in details doubt this is an accurate assumption. So Nicky, if you truly want advice ...at least tell us exactly how your contract reads.
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