Anyone else bought an of plan property at FortunaHill Golf and waiting on completion ?

Hello guys,

The bank guarantee thing worries me too, this said I think I prefer to have Plus Advisors front this claim for us.  Two reasons for this 1) pride, if they have forgotten to get the bank guarantee then they should make amends for this and 2) PwC (Price Waterhouse Coopers) are a respectable firm that should be able to tackle such a big developer as ours.  If anyone has a different angle here before I shell out EUR2500 to Plus Advisors please shout now! :-)

@Suzie, don't go near European Mediation.  They've only been around 12'ish months and are NOT recognised by the Solicitors Regulation Authority.  This means they have NO solicitors working for them!

@Mark K, Plus Advisors are going to lump like claimants together.  This will be done based on the date that the developer went into breach of your own personal contract with them.

All the best,

Mark A

Hi everyone

Thanks for your messages which are v helpful.  Firstly, have uploaded photos we took in July when we visited the site - hope you find them useful.  They are all taken from the show homes, and clearly show the lack of progress, since the show homes are built on the exact spot where all the main facilities, club house, shops etc are going to be.  As I said, the only finished things is the entrance road (see photo).  The show homes are of good quality, but will be demolished!  It is likely that the full development will never be completed, and that the golf course may only be 9 holes.  It  will need a lot of watering as the land is particularly dry and arid. 

Having had time to think a bit more - I am not particularly happy at the thought of using PWC to front a claim.  They are not a specialised legal firm but a consultancy (and their fees will not be cheap), and I would like a lot more information as to the benefits of using them instead of an experienced Spanish legal firm, before agreeing to do so.  Also, if this is to be aclass/group claim, why is the price fixed at 5,000 Euros each claim in two payments, surely the more people joining, not only the more chance of success but also the savings in cost terms?  I think what I am saying is that I would like a breakdown of these costs, which could be open-ended, as it is likely that even if a case was won, it would go to appeal with even more costs.  Also, I would like to have an understanding of the whole process, and our chances in cold realilty, of winning and actually getting some or all of our deposits back.  Reading postings from others on this and other sites, it looks like it is a lottery.  Much will depend also on what financial state the developer is in - no good winning if they are bankrupt.

Hindsight is a powerful thing, and I know that we (that is me and my husband) should have been more hands on at the early stages of the process, but unfortunately put too much trust in what IA had told us.  However, we were never sent a copy of the Contract by PlusAdvisors before they signed it on our behalf, and they then did not send a copy on to us for a further seven months - not very efficient at the minimum.  Are they the right company to be fighting on our behalf?  I am going to seek the advice and get any idea of costs/success chances from some other legal companies who contribute to the Spanish forums and seem to have some good recommendations.  Will report back once I have more info. I think that armed with more information we can make better, informed decisions.

Regards, Suzie

I only discovered this site this week.  I have just received the following email from IAP Global so thought I would post it on in case some haven't got it:

Hi everyone,

Yes I too have received this e-mail today. How have we managed to get here and more importantly where do we go from here? Has anybody got any bright ideas?

Regards,

TerryU

Hi Guys ,

I got the same email today and I am going to sit tight for now and think over the options. Lets give IAP global the opportuntity to make amends and deliver an alternative that suits us all.

Have a nice Christmas guys and keep thinking positive about the outcome

Mark K 

Hi everyone

Further to the messages below and also to the spate of emails from IA Global and Plus Advisors (who are now apparently inundated with emails from all of us - but what did they expect with the mailings they have recently sent out!). We are slightly concerned at the fact that in one breath IA Global are saying that there are issues with San Antonio and that we need to get legal advice about our deposits etc., but then they start talking about "flipping our deposits" rather than taking the legal route.  If we can't get our money out of San Antonio because of their financial difficulties, how is it going to be easier to get the money out to lodge as a deposit for another development?    Is this really in our best interests, or are IA Global interested in the possible new commissions they could make if this was a possibility, having already presumably taken commission for our purchase in Fortuna Hill in 2006.

The other matter which concerns us is the email we received yesterday from Plus Advisors, clearly a circular letter, saying much the same thing at IA Global and also mentioning about the idea of "flipping the deposit".  We are not experts in Spanish law, but are already very concerned that in our case Plus Advisors exchanged contracts on our purchase without ensuring the Bank Guarantee was in place (though IA assured us this was already in place and made it a key selling feature - is this true for anybody else?).  If this happened in the UK we could sue the Solicitor.  Now they seem to be supporting I A Global by talking about the same things as I A Global does.  Is this what they should be doing?  Surely they should wait until asked by us as their clients about what "flipping a deposit" means and its practicalities and give their advice at this point.   They seem to be too much co-ordinated action with I A Global for our comfort.  It is not coincidence that all these emails have gone out at the same time.  Hindsight is a useful thing, but we wish we had perhaps used a firm of Spanish solicitors who were independent of the developer and Instant Access.  It all seems rather too cosy to us.  These are our thoughts at the moment and we are trying to get more advice to help decide what to do for the best, including what our chances of a successful legal action are and whether the charges being suggested for a joint action are reasonable. 

Kind regards, Suzie

Hi Everyone,

I did not receive anything from Plus Advisors (should i be worried) but in the email from IA Global they did say that they would contact Plus Advisors and ask them to send

an email to me regarding the situation, that is obviously what they have done so i wouldn't get too paranoid just yet, although given the situation it is easy to understand

everyones concerns.

I do think however that as a group we have a lot of power as long as we are co-ordinated in our efforts, so, maybe its a good idea to see how strong our numbers are

and if our situations are the same, there seems to be an increasing number of people joining this link and there may be others out there that we need to find.

The next thing item, is this site the best place to discuss all our plans?? or am i being paranoid now.

I will stop now just in case i am going down the wrong path with this idea.

Just going back to the previously mentioned email from Plus Advisors, was it from there office, Faustino or someone else i havn't heard from yet?

Paul.

Just re-read my post (there, their) , i really must use the spoll chicker to correct my errors - DOH

Paul

Hi Paul,

I have not received this email from Plus Advisors either so you are not alone, I have thought the same about WHERE we are discussing our situation but for the time being this is where we have all found our voice .... well typed words hehe ... really glad I started this thread as at one point I did feel like I was the only fortuna buyer in the village hehe

The thing that bugs me is that we bought at a really good time in terms of strength of the pound to the euro and also I had a furniture pack, air con units and double balcony  included in the purchase so I am not going to be fobbed off with a sub standard alternative.

Anyway let positivity prevail and us all be happy with our outcomes in the situation.

Best Wishes everyone.

Mark K.

Hi all,

Just found this notice board - and have put down a sizable deposit on a property in Fortuna.

I am looking through the literature that was given to me at the Inside Track seminar and quote the following

'Your investment capital is released only when a bank guarantee is in place.In the case of default, our clients will receive all of their money back. Your investment capital is secure. All developments in the Instant Access Properties portfolio are bank guaranteed.There are Spanish and EU laws in place to protect the purchaser. The developments we represent are secure.'

I too am in the process of engaging Plus Advisors. To date I have just signed a notification to request my deposit back via Plus Advisors on 29th October. I heard back from Plus Advisors on 19th November that they were not getting any replies from the developer, and they mentioned Price Waterhouse Coopers Landwell and 5000 euros.

I have not paid any deposit to Plus Advisors to date, and have asked them about the bank guarantee but heard nothing back. Based on what I have just read not happy at all about situation on bank guarantee, and perhaps another reputable Spanish firm would be more appropriate. Meeting up would be a good idea.

Regards

Andy

Welcome to the thread Andy

I'm glad you found us here ,you have a very clear way of communicating ,just what we need and the statement you read is fantastic and is certainly the type of statement that I would need to have read at the time of signing (27 months ago now !! ) before parting with my hard earned cash especially in a foreign property transaction and why I and many others used Inside Track in the first place and not any of the other what I considered as  companies who did things in a

So can anyone say exactly WHERE the deposits are at this time ? This is the thing that is bugging me, are they with the developer or IAP or should I say RIP !! or is it with IAP International or with the Lawyer firm ?????

And if Inside Track International is a seperate company and still going and apparently going to send us updates (please read below) should it not be them who are held accountable for not making sure the Bank Guarentee was in place ?

Anna Thomas email from IAP Global on 13/11/2008 :-

Firstly, it does appear that many clients are confused over the relationship between IAP Global and Instant Access Properties International sl (IAPI - Spain) – let me explain.  IAPI - Spain is owned by Instant Access Properties Limited – In Administration (IAPL) and as a result their business activities are controlled by the Administrator of IAPL and Maria Gifford.  Maria Gifford was a director of IAPL and is the sole director of IAPI - Spain.

As you know, IAP Global Limited agreed to take over certain membership obligations of IAPL which include, but are not limited to the following services:

• Sales progression assistance for member property purchases from exchange through to completion on both UK and international property
• Aftercare services with regard to property management
• Further education and member networking events

There have been a number of questions over the involvement of IAPI - Spain in the above process and we understand that some of you may have already been communicated to by IAPI - Spain.  It is our view that IAP Global should be responsible for all of the services relating to all properties in Spain, but as yet we have been unable to agree a way forward with the Administrator of IAPL and Maria Gifford.

IAP Global is certainly not distancing itself from members who have purchased property in Spain, however until these corporate issues are resolved we are unable to provide detailed information on each development.

I have an important meeting with the Administrator of IAPL next Wednesday to discuss and hopefully resolve a number of issues, and following this I will write to you again with a further update

Also a meeting would be a great idea as it is a considerable amount of our money we are talking about here at stake !! I'm up in Scotland but would gladly travel down to meet at more central point for everyone.

Mark K

Hi Mark,

My straight talking does get me in to trouble on occassion! I thought my next step was going to be to attend the next regional seminar held by IAP Global - we are promised these at the beginning of 2009. Anything I learn or any answers I get to my questions I will forward on - at this stage the more information we can get the better .

I agree it is very confusing - the idea 'flipping' my deposit into another venture sounds 'too good to be true' i.e. I don't have a deposit - San Antonio Dvelopers have my deposit - and I find it extremely unlikely that they would give this to another developer but not back to me!!!

I am down in South Wales - so central would be good - although do have a good friend in Inverness I have been promising to visit for sometime.

Keep your chin up, and your cheque book closed!

Regards

Andy.

Hi Andy,

The idea of flipping the deposit is to exchange it for a developement that has completed by San Antonio, so it is the same developer, obviously they can't sell the remaining units at this other

developement which is somewhere near Torrevieja (the armpit of spain!!), so not much choice there then,  i think, but we will have to wait untill IAGlobal come up with some options in the New Year.

Until then, chin up.

Regards, Paul

Hi everyone. Joined this forum a few days ago and it was most reassuring to see that there is a group of us brainstorming on this and pooling our various 'bits' of information. Thank you for your ideas so far and for being so honest about your fears and hopes. It's really helpful.

There are several facts that we are hoping will become clear in the next few weeks, partly from tracking back our own paper trail and hopefully from further updates from IAP Global, IAPI Spain etc. With reference to the email appended from Elena Agudo - Plus Advisors, on 15th Dec. (I've underlined the salient points.) Working through these has been useful to us to help pin down what needs to be clarified, hope it helps others too. These are the outstanding grey areas we have:

1. Where our deposits are held (one posting mentioned they are held in Escrow, while another suggested the developer has these)

2. Whether these deposits are indeed secure given the 'missing' bank guarantees (regardless of whose at fault if they were not completed legally), which incidentally may not be an issue for a lucky few. Elena's email below says Plus Advisors requested issuing of bank guarantees from the developer on several occasions, and 'we received only a few'. She also states that "Initially, the legal strategy to be presented in this kind of sues, does not vary too much for those who have bank guarantee or not."

3. Can we get our money back based on the developer's breach of contract v.v. long delays in development schedule/completion, and is there any other stand we can take. It seems from Plus Advisers' Elena's email that a 6month extension was already agreed, this puts the new contracted completion date at March 2009. So certainly no legal action can commence until after that date is reached.

4. With legal action, might we also be eligible for refund of the interest paid over the period as well as all the legal costs outlined.

5. Is it indeed possible to transfer the deposit to another golf resort in Murcia (because we chose this specifically as an up-and-coming area and best location to invest, not keen on any other places or 'armpit' areas that Andy mentioned). Plus Advisers Elena indicates in her email, it may be possible "transferring your already paid deposit into another property, even of a different builder, which it would still allow you to continue with the legal process of claiming the amounts paid." (This might indicate that the developer does not in fact hold our deposits, but presumably they would have to have agreement of the developer to do so, perhaps avoiding legal action would be a sweet enough deal?)

We are planning to get all our paperwork and notes together so we can track what we have an have not signed. We'll certainly post an update on our 'predicament' and maybe this will help others look for the relevant documentation and/or information.

J&S

On 15th Dec:

Elena Agudo - Plus Advisors wrote:

We are writing this communication as we feel in the obligation of informing you about the difficult situation of your purchase in Fortuna. Nowadays, we consider that this project has few possibilities of being completed successfully. During the past months, we have been making our own researches and find out some details which were not initially our field such as: 1.-  the always decreasing number of workers on the site with no formal justification, 2.- the difficult current financial situation of the builder, 3.- Visits to the Town Hall to check the progress of the urban plan and some other points that do not confirm the non viability of the project but are enough evidences to send you this and advise you about how to proceed.

Once the completion date and the 6 months extension agreed on the private contract have expired, we have no other option but to act against the builder terminating the contract due to the unfulfilment of the same not only for the non-delivery of the property but also for not having issued the relevant bank guarantee which Plus Advisors has requested in several occasions (we have only received very few).

Initially, the legal strategy to be presented in this kind of sues, does not vary too much for those who have bank guarantee or not. We have studied deeply your case and we are in the position of bringing a lawsuit against the builder with a good expectation of success. In this case, we will claim the resolution of the contract of purchase and sale, the refund of the deposits, the corresponding legal interests accrued, compensation for damages and administrative and legal expenses plus the court fees. For this purpose, we have arranged a cooperation agreement with the company PRICE-WATERHOUSE-COOPERS-LANDWELL to deal jointly in the process being the lawyers Ms. Susana León Pin with bar of association number 1.361 appointed by Plus Advisors and Mr. José Abad Revenga with bar of association number 4.997 appointed by PRICE-WATERHOUSE-COOPERS-LANDWELL.

We have special price of 5.000 € + VAT which cover our legal fees, fees for the “procurador” (special figure in Spanish law system who acts as kind of mediator for the bureaucracy work in court), the notarial requests, “burofaxes”, etc., The method of payment for the said amount is a 50 % at an early stage and the rest 50% on verdict.

The situation could be more complicated in the event the builder went into administration which we have no evidence so far it is going to happen soon but anyway, any decision you take, we recommend that is made as soon as possible.

The other option we have, it would be transferring your already paid deposit into another property, even of a different builder, which it would still allow you to continue with the legal process of claiming the amounts paid. We do not know the details of this commercial solution and it shall be dealt through your agents Instant Access. We will be available for any legal question you may have arising from this agreement in order to make sure this is done correctly and with enough guarantees to complete successfully. A quick commercial solution for properties ready to move-in, would minimize the pressure and uncertainty which we understand you may feel about your investment.

In the vent that you did not accept this commercial switch, the next step would be to bring the lawsuit against the builder for breach of contract. The legal process to follow has three parts: 1. Presentation of the request to the relevant Court. 2. Preliminary Hearing. 3. Principal oral proceedings. We estimate this could take between 1 and 2 years depending on the court designated and the evidences/declarations that the contrary party could present. During this time, your presence could be required either because we consider it is important for the case or because the contrary party requests it so.   

Looking forward to hearing from you about your decision with the recommendation that the commercial offer is heard just in case it may be of your interest. If not, please let us know about starting the legal process and we will send you the instructions to follow for that purpose.

Kind regards,

Hi everyone

It is really encouraging to see the result of pooling our knowledge on this and there is strength in our growing numbers, thanks to all of you who have posted. :-)

The web is great and is how I found this site in the first place by searching Fortuna Golf etc.     However, I share the concerns which one or two have raised about security.  As this is a public available forum, which anybody can sign up to if they want - we do not know who is reading our postings.

I have had a reply from a respected Spanish lawyer who I have just contacted and want to share this with you, particularly as it looks that they might be cheaper than Plus Advisors - even more so as they offer reductions depending on numbers involved.     What is the best way to move this forward, do you think we should try and establish an off-line means of communicating.?    If we are trying to meet up we might have to share more info than we would want to on a public forum - is there any use trying to make use of the private message facility to share, say tel.no.s?

Regards,
Suzie

Thanks for the info Steve,

VERY helpful, i didn't get an email from Plus Advisors even though i sent several emails, but, following on from your post i got in contact with Elena

and got an email back with all the info, so now i'm in the same loop as everyone else, PHEW.

I now have some reading and detective work to do.

Cheers, Paul (not Andy)

Hi everybody out there in misfortune Fortuna land!

It's nice to know we are all not alone.

From the enquiries I have made, it appears that the developer will have our deposits.

As far as I can gather, with flipping to other properties, it appears that the other developers might accept 70% of the price, presumably just to get rid of their properties that they cannot sell at the moment.  Methinks70% of something is better than 100% of nothing. I think we'll have to be wary of any asking price. Let's see what IAPG can come up with.

Oh well, Merry Christmas to all of you and let's hope for a better 2009!

TerryU

Hi all, I found this forum a week or so ago and have since then been gathering together all my information relating to my purchase at Fortuna Golf. My main concern is obviously the missing Bank guarantees, which should surely be the most important piece of documentation to obtain in an off plan purchase. I have looked on various websites regarding Spanish bank guarantees and there are a number of pitfalls even if you have one. Try belegal dot com for a pretty good guide, there are many other good ones though.

I was initially disgusted that Plus advisors signed the Private purchase contract without having the necessary bank guarantee in place, however after a bit of research I found that this is always the case. Apparently the bank guarantee can't be requested until the deposit is transfered via the secure solicitors bank account. It is then a legal requirement for the developer to provide a bank guarantee. 

There should be something written into the contract (PPC) which clearly states the developers obligation to supply a bank guarantee upon safe receipt of the deposit monies, as I only received a Spanish version and no translation I'm unsure of what is exactly stated in my contract, thought I could trust Plus advisors to sort that though. If anyone has a translation and they could contact me via the private message facility I'd be most gratefull. 

This is a quote from earlier correspondance from Plus advisors 'between our responsibilities are the checking of all relevant documentation and verification that all legal sellers obligations are complied with on due time guaranteeing that both ''private contract'' and title deeds are correct'. Surely that should include ensuring the provision of a bank guarantee is included in the contract and then making sure they actually get it !!!!  

I don't know exactly how much chasing Plus advisors did on our behalf to get the bank guarantees in place but obviously not enough. Basically the developer has broken the law by not giving us our bank guarantees and is also now in breach of the private purchase contract by not having the development finished on time, for me this includes the six months grace they are allowed. I am now intent on getting my deposit back plus the six percent interest accrued per year which is also a legal requirement, plus any other costs that are legally due to me. I am very wary of any flipping deal for the reasons others have expressed on this forum. I have also looked at Plus Advisors' website and notice it hasn't been updated since Feb 06, obviously not very busy then !!!?? I can't help thinking they are a bit of a mickey mouse outfit who are too close to the developers and IA Global for comfort, I would be much happier using an alternative independant solicitor, as someone mentioned earlier on this forum, if we can reclaim all our legal expenses surely best to use the best !!! Then again it will be harder to co-ordinate a group action.

I urge people to look at the Property Purchase agreement they signed with IA International, it is a Confidential Document and Note 7 reads - Deposit refund - Where completion does not take place due to the vendor not fulfilling the terms and conditions outlined, the deposit paid will be refunded in full to the buyer and the buyers legal representatives may seek legal compensations.  

Note 8 is IA International's exclusion of liability (no surprises there)

I don't know how relevant this document is in the grand scheme of things but at least it's something.

Maybe IA International will surprise me and come up with something, but somehow I doubt it, why didn't our completions co-ordinators tell us long ago about the missing bank guarantees and why have Plus advisors only just told us about it ??? There is one thing I've learnt from all this and it's the confirmation of the oldest rules in business 'You can't trust anyone' and 'if a job's worth doing..... you know the rest)

I hope to get in touch with a number of you via telephone using the private message facility so we can discuss our situation and an agreeable route forward.

If we all stick together hopefully we can sort these cowboys out and get our bloody hard earned back again !!!

I'm up for the fight, hope the rest of you are

All the best

Mark

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