| Comment | Date | User |
| Hello to all, fisrtly sorry for my bad english. My point of view is that the situation is it no pink for the banks because if you want to buy a property from them its very difficult that could offer you for less than the mortgage. Another trouble for them is that has no staff to show the properties bringing the clients to see it. Finally they have to back to contact again with the estate agents to help them for a small commission. | 2/9/2010 4:21:00 PM | Antgg |
| And that is not the best (worst!) of it! Bancaja are offering 90% mortgages and nothing to pay for 3 years with their properties! Mortgage brokers cannot compete with this neither! | 2/9/2010 4:28:00 PM | Sharonw |
| Most of the properties that are taken back or reposessed are put to all of the bank staff, friends and family first and foremost. This generally means that the only properties that go onto thier site for the local market is the poor qaulity projects in poor locations.
The only agents that are truly affected by bank reposessions are the agents that trade in the low value properties outwith the Costa del Sol.
There is no real threat of a bank becoming too involved in property transactions as it is not what they do, so they should strick to what they do best.
We are seeing al ot of activity in the market between 850,000 up to 1.500,000 so this market is not effected by banks that much. Most of the reposessions we have seen canot sell for less than the debt or they are in such a poor state they are not even worth the debt value. Alternatively, they are illegal as we recently experienced an auction property and a fabulous discount but the site was overbuilt so no real point in buying it at the debt figure required by the bank becuase you could have bought the plot next door for a lot less and built a legal property.
We are seeing signs of increased activity in the market so all those agents who have survived so far can only prosper in 2010 and beyond.
So lets have less of the negativity about the Spanish market, Estate Agents etc and let hear some positive stories about why we are all here in the first place?
| 2/9/2010 4:40:00 PM | Derek |
| I suppose the estate agents in Spain had it coming as we have been trying to sell privately for quite some time through EOS and have had many phone calls from spanish estate agents affering to sell our property at a massive "knockdown" price, which is massively unfair on the seller as well as the buyer, because the agents often up the price for the buyer AND want their commission on top ! C'est la vie mes amis !! | 2/9/2010 4:48:00 PM | Pete |
| The first comment is spot on!
The banks do not have the experience that estate agents have. Nor the client lists. As you say in your article, the web sites are often "clunky" and slow.
We at Blue Ocean Estates work closely with the banks and are very successful in putting buyers and the banks together but its not easy. We certainly would not take a client direct to the property as more often than not the keys don't fit and the map location is incorrect. So we spend a lot of time locating the property and when we do get access, we take photographs, dimensions of the rooms and add a full description of the property to our web site, including an honest description of the condition. Just as we would for a private sale.
Yes there is plenty of property out there but maybe not what buyers want. The death of the estate agent? Definitely not!
A foot note here. Buying a reprocessed or distressed sale does not cost you any more buying through Blue Ocean Estates or if you go direct to the bank. The price is the same but the service more personal.
| 2/9/2010 4:54:00 PM | Robert Armstrong |
| It has been known for some time that the banks were offering very advantageous mortgage terms to those who purchased some of their housing stock. However, these may add to the toxic debt of the banks in the future. The dire situation of the Spanish banks has yet to be fully revealed. | 2/9/2010 5:05:00 PM | Dan Thorneycroft |
| The above comments are valid and as a buyer you have the choice - you could spend hours wading through the bank's websites to try to find a good deal. However you will find that they all have many incorrectly listed properties - if you can find them they will have the wrong property type, area and even prices listed.
The alternative is to speak to a quality established estate agent such as Murcia Golf Properties. We have already compiled all of the best deals from the banks, with the correct information, and we can offer them at the same or even lower prices than direct with the banks.
In addition to us doing all the legwork and the price being the same or lower than direct, we also provide a full sales support service and free advice to all our clients.
The bottom line is that anybody looking to buy a bargain resale or a repossession is better off speaking to an agent like Murcia Golf Properties.
The banks are not geared up to deal directly with clients and many do not have sales staff, let alone English speaking staff. And of course they can only tell you what properties they can offer, not what the other banks or the resales market can offer.
| 2/9/2010 5:14:00 PM | MGP |
| Don't agree Justin. The banks need the estate agents and many would say they deserve each other, and I am an estate agent!
The banks come to me because I have clients. They want those clients for their properties. The stuff they have is frankly shocking on those sites. Not one property I would recommend a client to get unless there was heavy discounting. | 2/9/2010 5:21:00 PM | Graham |
| It does seem rather strange that the banks do not generally involve agents in the sale of these properties. None of these websites are optimised for search terms that we would use and I think in general the banks are not trying to muscle in in conventional the Estate Agency business.
If they were really serious about selling property they would use their branches but maybe that could detract from their core business. I think they just need to show the repossessed that they are doing their best before these properties go under the hammer. They know if they flood the market with these properties, prices will go down.
If the banks started seriously lending again they might be able to sell some of these properties!
As an Estate Agent I prefer to offer a better range of property than the banks are offering. Most buyers are discerning and they know what they want. Most of the properties I saw were not the best, some poorly situated and most of prices were not that reduced, at least here in Tenerife.
I have heard that some people trash there properties before repossession and that may be an issue here. How many of these properties would be in poor condition and have defects.
There are always bargains floating around in the current market but from our experience people will not compromise on location and quality even if the price is right. | 2/9/2010 5:25:00 PM | Lestie |
| By the way, I see others have left the name of their Estate Agency. We are Expedia Property SL in Tenerife and we offer an unrivalled service, maybe that is because we only deal in Property! | 2/9/2010 5:30:00 PM | Lestie |
| It seems that many of the estate agents in Spain do not have the experience to be estate agents let alone the banks.
It amazes me that in the UK an estate agent will give a reasonable valuation of a property, yet in Spain, when asked the question of the value of your property from an agent you invariably get met with "How much are you looking for?" | 2/9/2010 5:31:00 PM | Steve G |
| I speak Spanish and decided to call one of the banks who have put a sign on the villa near us. The lady who answered said someone would call me back - still waiting over a week later to find out how much the place is on the market for and I've now called them three times!!! I'm happy to say that at the family run estate agency where I work, we've seen an increase in qualified purchasers coming through the door this year. Long may it continue! There are certainly fewer estate agents around and many of those who have survived are concentrating on their local area - this is much better for the purchasers who get a proper idea of what the area is like and where are the better places to buy. Everyone coming in is looking for a bargain and most are cash buyers at the banks are not giving out mortgages at the moment. We've done two deals this year with mortgages where the clients were Spanish residents and preapproved before they came looking for property.
| 2/9/2010 5:52:00 PM | Charlotte |
| Well Justin, it looks like you weren't quite getting the plot when you wrote your article but you have only had estate agents comments so far.
I am an estate and rental agent in North Costa Blanca. I whole-heartedly agree with everything that has been said so far (in these comments). Furthermore, in my area the banks are just not getting a look in on the action. We have all worked had persuading buyers to adapt to current values and now things are finally moving again and the only real problem we have is getting bank finance.
I am now going to raise an issue that is far more profound. I really believe that the sheer greed of Spanish banks and the government's errors in controlling the situation as certainly ruined the Spanish economy and may even now cause serious repercussions in Europe and perhaps the rest of the world.
We have to go back to around 2004, when it was absolutely clear that a serious real estate bubble was developing. Nothing was done about it until far too late. Sr Solbes (Minister of Finance), in one of his last public statements before his dismissal said something that translates as "We could do nothing about banks who chose to grant mortgages that could not be repaid. Neither could we prevent them from lending money to developers to build properties that nobody would buy".
Which is absolutely absurd because the whole "razon de vivir" of the Finance Ministry and the Bank of Spain is to keep the economy on this right rails.
Anyhow the damage is well and truly done now. The Spanish banks have a huge liquidity problem, cannot possible expect to sell off the huge portfolio of property that they own and will eventually have to be bailed out.
Meanwhile the economy is still imploding, the indebtedness of Greece, Portugal and Spain are threatening the whole EMU and could cause a world-wide financial crisis.
Sr Zapatero has announced an austerity plan to bring the state deficit down from close to 12% to 3% of the GDP within 3 years but has failed to account for the billions required to save the banks.
My opinion is that it will all gel down somehow in the end and then it will be up to the estate agents to get the construction industry moving again.
Homefinder | 2/9/2010 6:06:00 PM | Homefinder - Moraira |
| I am neither a bank or an estate agent ( but have worked in the mortgage industry) but decided to briefly trawl the links that Justin provided............. one thing is for sure the banks certainly do not know how to market properties, the pictures are worse than terrible. Having done a quick search with a couple of the banks who own Polaris properties, there were only 2 villas that I could see on Mar Menor 1 and that is an established resort. there weren't any on Mar Menor 2........ not much showed up for the rest of the polaris developments.
I am not a fan of estate agents in any country but a good one knows what they are doing and if I was a buyer I would certainly use one. That means that sellers would be silly not to register their properties with one and if you are fortunate to sell it through ones own means then there is nothing to lose...... the estate agents are on commission and want a deal. Unless I am being completely niave I don't think the bank's are on commission for selling properties .. how could they be..... they are not selling ........... just transactional executers. I am sure the estate agents are having a very hard time but the good ones will survive........... like the good recruitment consultants survive, as do the good mortgage brokers.......... etc etc | 2/9/2010 6:33:00 PM | Nicola |
| Well Justin, What a turn up for the books !!!! How many months is it since you were trying to get us to buy your book claiming that property prices in Spain were increasing...... Now the truth...... Its a disaster for the banks, developers and Spain as a country. | 2/9/2010 6:48:00 PM | Dolores |
| Dolores, I never said property prices were increasing. The report shows the interest increasing from a certain demographic with the main reason being that prices are still going down not up! | 2/9/2010 7:35:00 PM | Justin |
| Well Ive got nothing but praise for estate agents in Spain...bought a property last year he was excellent in showing me around the properties...and not just ones he had on his books but also ones that his competitors had on their books...think by the comments in here that the bank could not match that service | 2/9/2010 8:09:00 PM | Dave |
| Greed - that's what it was all about and the estate agents were the greediest! The more of them go out of business the better! | 2/9/2010 8:58:00 PM | Al |
| I would not buy one of these properties no matter how cheap they were, if they were that good the Spanish would be buying them. The new properties are not being built to the correct standards ie: insulation and finish and also who wants to be buying that cheap?? you know what sort of neighbours you are going to get.The other point is that there will be no aftersales care with a bank... think out it, once it's sold it's off their hands and they will be on to the next one. Not for me, give me an older house or my own new build anyday.. | 2/9/2010 9:20:00 PM | Lu Lu |
| In the presemt situation you cant trust Banks or Estate Agents as they are in a boat without a paddle and desperate for cash. Until the Spanish Governmement starts putting in protection for buyers the Spanish property market will continue to go into freefall and buyers will go elsewhere as property investment in Spain is now too risky. | 2/9/2010 10:56:00 PM | Pedro |
| When I moved here 6 years ago everyone was an 'estate agent' from the local gardener to a removal man with a van! They didn't have a clue about selling property but wanted to jump on th band wagon and earn a fast buck. Gradually they are falling by the wayside and eventually those which remain will be the good, honest ones who know what they are doing. No more asking what you want for a property and when the question was turned round the 'valuation' varied by as much as 120,000€! No more asking you to take pictures for their portfolios and then email them rather than the so- called agent coming to look for themselves.
The idea of banks selling property is nothing new and I expect some people will be delighted with their 'bargain' buys but the best way to find your new home will always be with the help and advice of a reputable estate agent. | 2/10/2010 9:15:00 AM | Frankie |
| Well Justin
That's a terrific article as the comments prove.
Speculation and hearsay are important but without any source foundation and evidence that's all they are. This time you are being much more a component part of the issue and looking at it from a much broader perspective and being honest too. Much better than trying to talk up something that is obviously falling fast. Bit like flogging a dead horse there! And now you are opening up the issues and influences much better for your readers to see and understand. I personanly find this approach more trustworthy and useful and I am now much more open to your opinions. More transparency equals more trust.
As for the Estate Agent versus Bank argument you tease us with....surely the Banks should use the (redundant) expertise of (bankrupt) Estate Agents and pay them a commision or employ their services as there is a gap in the skills the Banks need. Are there any signs of this?
A recent article in the FT suggested the house prices in Spain would have to find a new natural base level that will be between 30% and 50% lower than in 2004. Henceforth growth will only be at normal inflationary rates. The oringinal levels would never be realised again. That's a double-whammy for Expats who have already moved their property wealth to Spain at its recent peak levels especially as the UK market starts to regenerate growth broadening the gap even more and and extrapolated with the weakening Euro.
However, this situation should be good news for those Expats waiting to move into the Spanish property market but with all the bad press going around when will this be? These buyers NEED FACTS. They need CONFIDENCE as to wehen to make their move. Anecdotal opinion is one thing. But where is the factual evidence of any recovery and when, where, how, what and why?
What is required are the clear strategic intentions of the Banks I feel, (no evidence) this is a tactical move to bail out of and abondon toxic debt just get through a problem period and it has failure written all over it unless they work hand-in-hand with the 'professional' ESTATE AGENTS and if they do then collectively the whole market can be rebuilt on a sound foundation of transparency and TRUST. I feel a root and branch sort out is required with much tighter regulatory prameters (devised by those trustworthy professionals that really do know the market rather than the get rich quick brigade and band waggon riders).
I guess the current situation is akin to letting the baby out with the bath water and that a massive Governmant refinancing will indeed be required as suggested in the comments here.
There maybe never a more GOLDEN OPPRTUNITY for the whole Spanish Property Industry to redefine and rebrand itself. To do that the whole industry will have to work openly and honesty in tandem with the Governmenbt and the Banks
Christopher Gamble
Stratico - Strategy, Marketing and Design Consultants
| 2/10/2010 2:19:00 PM | Christopher Gamble |
| Hello to all again, I did the first comment on this article.
I'm still thinking that, specially, now the client need a serious&proffesional real estate agent to get the deal with the bank.
Actually only the more proffesional real estate agents still alive, as the sentence say " the rats leaves the boat the first".
Obviously, I'm a realestate agent, and obviously because my strange english is veru evident that I'm spanish, my suggestion is as following : Dear potential clients, trust in your real estate agent because its the only way to find the best for your investment.
Dont trust the selfish banks manager, they are only looking for the bank target.
antgg1963@gmail.com
| 2/10/2010 3:21:00 PM | Antgg |
| Justin
I wrote an early comment on this article. Well done you woke a few passions there.
The most common theme coming from non estate agents is the lack of confidence that clients have in Estate Agents.
What I find alarming about clients, especially the Brits is that they will do and accept the word of unscrupulous agents when they wouldn't dream of doing the same thing in the UK.
We at Blue Ocean Estates operate in the Marina Alta area of North Costa Blanca covering the resorts of Javea, Moraira and Denia, Blue Ocean Estates are a "Safe Purchase Spain" affiliated company.
Buyers and sellers should always do their homework, have a survey carried out on the house they intend to buy and use recognised legal advisers for their conveyancing.
Glad to help robert@oceano-azul-inmo.com | 2/10/2010 5:06:00 PM | Robert Armstrong |
| Just to comment on the posts by Charlotte and homefinder, Moraira; contrary to public belief - and I have seen this mentioned a lot - banks actually are granting mortgages, albeit with a more controlled attitude! Criteria has tightened but approvals readily granted as long as client profile fits! | 2/10/2010 5:11:00 PM | Sharonw |
| The banks will let agents sell for them, which is good as the bank staff really don't know what they are doing anyway, and usually pay about 3% commission to the agent. I think, however, that the banks are not as open to haggling the price down as you think. One of my local banks (Caja) has just increased all the prices on its "real estate" website. Only this week I was accused (as a Real Estate Agent) of "destroying the market" as I have a client who wanted to sell his property quickly for less than the outstanding mortgage amount and wanted to raise the difference by taking a new smaller mortgage on another property he owned in the same urbanisation which is mortgage free. The bank manager accused me of "destroying the market" by encouraging the client to sell too cheap. I am sorry to say that I don't have that much "clout" and ultimately told the bank manager "what is better - that he sells and you get your mortgage paid off or he hands the keys back to you and you have yet another property to add to your ever-growing real estate portal?" needless to say I just got a shrug of the shoulders in response to that question!! | 2/10/2010 6:34:00 PM | Simone Oasis Properties Aguilas SL |
| By the way we have been in business in Aguilas, Costa Calida for nearly 6 years now and have a good reputation in the area (with Spanish and English alike) for being open and fair on commissions. We are finding it tough going like most agents at the moment but we are still here!
www.oasispropertiesaguilas.com
0034 968 419 360 | 2/10/2010 6:37:00 PM | Simone,Oasis Properties Aguilas SL |
| As an Inland agent working out of Baena, I find your Costas biased artcles very damaging. Our market is very different and I don't believe it is one you either know or care about. Please ensure your readers understand the huge difference there is between the various markets.
Best Properties Andalucia
| 2/11/2010 1:11:00 PM | Trevor Tolkien |
| I don't want to pour water on drowning men, but there is much worse to come yet. It really is starting to look like Armageddon. Most economic forecasters now agree that it is virtually inevitable that there will be a second dip in this current slump coming towards the end of this year - even if the PIIGS Euro crisis is averted. Expect property prices to fall a lot further for a lot longer than you may have thus far imagined. I would not be the least bit surprised to see a benchmark 2 bed, 2 bathroom sea-view apartment in a popular area to bottom out at around 30k 18 months to 2 years or so from today. Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings, but it's in no one's interests to bury our heads in the sand. | 2/11/2010 1:35:00 PM | Paul |
| Trevor, you are indeed correct, we are obviously biased towards the South coasts which is where most of problems lie (especially for the majority of our readers). Perhaps you can write an article for us about the situation in your neck of the woods? We'd be more than happy to publish it.
Justin | 2/11/2010 2:05:00 PM | Justin |
| I don't want to pour water on drowning men, but there is much worse to come yet. It really is starting to look like Armageddon. Most economic forecasters now agree that it is virtually inevitable that there will be a second dip in this current slump coming towards the end of this year - even if the PIIGS Euro crisis is averted. Expect property prices to fall a lot further for a lot longer than you may have thus far imagined. I would not be the least bit surprised to see a benchmark 2 bed, 2 bathroom sea-view apartment in a popular area to bottom out at around 30k 18 months to 2 years or so from today. Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings, but it's in no one's interests to bury our heads in the sand. | 2/11/2010 2:52:00 PM | Paul |
| Sorry for the double post.
One thing I will say, though, having followed a few of the links provided, I don't think the British agents have anything to fear from the Spanish banks. Their presentation of available properties is piss poor and the prices don't appear the least bit advantageous. | 2/11/2010 3:12:00 PM | Paul |
| Charlotte
where is your agency? | 2/14/2010 11:16:00 PM | allan |
| This is my second post.
Since the thread started the whole Greece/Spain/Portugal debt can of worms has come to light and there is still no real solution in sight. There only now seem to be three alternatives, none of which are good for the Euro.
Greece, and perhaps Spain and Portugal, could leave the Euro - my view is that this would be the best solution for Spain long term.
A rescue operation could be mounted for Greece either by France and Germany, which is unlikely, or by quantitative easing across the whole Eurozone. However, if they did this for Greece then Spain and Portugal would want some of it as well. This would have the effect of devaluing the Euro against all other currencies and would work for a while. Eventually, unless there were very strict controls on member states borrowing, then the whole problem would start up again because they would not have resolved the loss of competitiveness in the Med Club.
Sr Zapatero has presented his plan to resolve the issue for Spain and expects to save 50 bn during the next 2 years and reduce the state deficit to 3%.
His accounting has a fatal error because he has not allowed for bailing out the Spanish banking system.
In order for his scheme to work the economy has to start expanding again but that will never happen unless Spanish companies have access to cheap finance. The banks have no liquidity! Everything is tied up in their huge property portfolio, acquired in the past 2 years with the debt/equity swaps.
Sorry, but I am betting on Greece leaving the Euro within the next few weeks and Spain and Portugal following after that. Otherwise quantitative easing.
Most certainly something has to be resolved quickly because it is turning into another world crisis.
Homefinder | 2/16/2010 7:21:00 PM | Homefinder |
| Sorry to deflate all you estate agents out there. We bought a house from the bank after seeing many estate agents who would just tell us anything to make the sale .. is there an honest one out there? Anyway I'd recommend buying from the bank to anyone .. the house was unbelievably cheap and just need a bit of tlc and paint. We probably would have done the same had we bought it privately anyway. Unfortunately agents on Tenerife let sellers make up their own figures. The bank, as previously mentioned, just need to get their money back ... I'd go for the bank every time. | 3/21/2012 3:45:00 PM | Sansash |