stay in uk

It was my dream to live in spain, for years i watched programs like "House in the sun" "Escape to the sun ect.       Eventually we sold up our home in the uk and arrived with £189000.We purchased a house outright and still had money in the bank, my husband and i got jobs, but eventually we discovered that nothing is reliable over here, we had bar jobs, got very settled then the owners sold and moved on., we worked for property companies, they went bust, i worked as a cook in a restaurant for two years, i loved it, was very happy, then the owners moved back to uk and closed it down,...and so it went on...jobs in the summer/sometimes two jobs!   then nothing in the winter/..needless to say  eventually the savings started to disapear.  We are now in the same position as thousands of "dreamers"  we have no jobs, and no money, and can hardly afford to eat let alone pay the bills! We are trying to sell our dream home, we have reduced the price so much, but no luck yet..i am now ill and need to go back to uk, and i am stuck. I have lived here eight years, i have worked at a multitude of jobs/through no fault of my own as i said earlier/  it does  not get any easier,Men cannot get on all the building sites here, because the spanish employ morrocans ect and pay them peanuts., there is no way to earn a decent wage, and most bosses treat you like dirt because they know another hundred people will come through the door for your jobs, Living here is great if you have plenty of money or are a pensioner, apart from that i would think very carefully before you completly give up your life in the uk.A lot of my friends have children that do not even go to school, and when they leave, what future do they have here?/waitressing, bar work in the summer, nothing in the winter?/   A lot of people will disagree with me, but i bet they are the ones with a job at the moment, or have a lot of money....try and imagine the same life with no job and no money??? its all very well having lovely weather and plenty of cheap booze....but its no good with no money in your pocket!!!  so take heed all you dreamers, i know uk is not much better at the moment, but you do get a safety net there, and you have got the NHS, ok i know that can be awful, and you can be left on trolleys for hours at a time...but at least they dont demand 150eur for the service.....stay in uk !!!

 I just replied to another thread to someone looking to move to Spain with her family.  I mentioned that getting a job would be very difficult as there just aren't any.

I totally agree with your comments.  Time are really tough at the moment and you're right, if you aren't earning money and have no savings then it's even worse, as you can't even sell your property as a fall-back, and healthcare is a huge factor too.

If it's any consolation, we know many people in the same position as yourselves.  I wish I could give everyone a job!

I sincerely hope things pick up for you both.  It certainly sounds like you've tried your best.

Best of luck.

Justin

Hi Tweety

Great Post!

Everybody considering moving to Spain would do well to read it.

Spain however, for those who 'want to live the dream', is like a magnet, it wont let go until you do it.

I hope you and your families situation improves weather  in Spain or back home

Steve

Dear Tweety:

A wise option... I hope you can recover normality to your life soon in the Uk.

Good that you tried, the one who never failed is the one who never tried!

Keep moving ahead with life... you will discover why Spain was not your place..

Best and kind wishes,

Maria

Returning to what in the UK - the health system is overstretched, there is no work, the country is overrun by immigrants, there is loads of crime,  the weather is lousy, the place is covered with rubbish and an eyesore. it goes on......

Oh, i forget you can claim social security benefits if you queue for 3 hours a week, but the rules for that are more stringent by the week.

Here you have an great climate living in a fantastic culture.

Get into the system and you are far better off.

Hi Tweety,

I feel for you i realy do,

We have had the same dream now for a few years.

We are both in our 60s now and are looking forward to staying in spain next winter.

I certainly have doubts so we have decided to rent even though we would love to buy, i think even if you are older you have to be wary, as one of you could end up on your own if you see what i mean not wishing to sound gloomy.

I for one would hate to be on my own living in spain or anywere else for that matter and i no this has happened to many and they carnt get back to the uk and their familys

But !! if we are not tied to a property it would be our choice.

I am hoping we will find a nice place were we can settle and call it home.

I wish you all the best.

Jeanie

Hi johnnie1uk,

I just wondered if you realised the irony in what you said about the UK being "overrun by immigrants"?  You could also say the same about Spain being overrun with immigrants i.e. Brits, Irish and other Northern Europeans ;-)

David

Hello David,

Agree,

There is a place were we've stayed a couple of times now Playa Flamenca, its like spot the spanish.

I couldnt believe how many brits there were.

Jeanie.

Spain is not over run by immigrants,  true, there are brit enclaves (the Costas) but you dont have to live in one.

tweety5

just seen your post and would like to say how sorry i am that it's all gone wrong. That's a very honest post, and a good warning I think to those thinking the grass in greener (or yellow!)  My dream didn't even get past the deposit stage, before we found out the hard way, that justice in Spain can be very long and hard to come by. You sound like you have given it your best shot. I would think that anyone who relies on the building or even tourist sector is going to find it tough going until the powers that be in Spain, decide they want to encourage investment, and actually do something positive to stop the rot, but they don't seem to give a toss, and seem happy to see it all falling apart around them?  As you say, if money wasn't an issue then lots of us would love to live in Spain, it has so much going for it, as long as you don't expect the benifits we take for granted in the UK. like the NHS, justice, welfare, common sense, planning issues, etc etc.  I guess if you live inland, or have a proffession not related only to the coast, then things are much better, and the same could be said in the UK i guess?

Talking about NHS, my nephew had a nasty rugby accident last week. He was taken to our local hospital, and within an hour and a half, he had been accessed, taken for x-ray, patched up with sling etc and given various pain killers and sent home again, so the NHS still very good in some parts of the country.

Good luck with whatever you do next. The more i hear, the more i feel we had a lucky escape when things went wrong!, but i realise that for many, life in Spain is great, and they wouldn't have it any other way. All a matter of circumstance and whats important to the individual  i guess. Each to his/her own and all that.  Things might look far better in a year or two, when the recession pulls out, and hopefully Spain gets to grips with it's much reported problems?

Oh what to do, I purchased an apartment in Turre last year with the idea of selling up in the UK and retiring to spain. The plan was that with the sale of my property I could retire early and have a decent life in Spain. Now with the property market as it is, I think I'll carry on working for the next three years and maybe downsize to a small apartment in the UK. That way I should be able to have sunny winters in Spain and wet rainy summers in UK. Given the present situation, is this the best way forward?

tech

long term rent sounds good to me.  If you ould you could find someone to rent your place in Spain for a few months a year untill things turn around a bit, at least you wont have burned your bridges.

To Johnnie1UK - without wishing to be argumentative (moi?) of course Spain is overrun with immigrants, just like any other Western European country, and in Spain's case maybe more.  Do you have any idea how many boats filled with Africans arrive on the Southern coasts of Spain every day?  Do you know how many amnesties the Spanish government has given to illegal immigrants? Do you know how many South Americans live in Spain, both legally and illegally?  How many 'looky looky' men do you see in the streets - not just on the 'Costas', but in every town.  Wake up and stop making silly comments!

Johnnie1UK - many of the issues that you highlight in your post about the UK are actually complaints made  by the spanish about Spain. The roads in our village are covered in dog poo and I am always telling children off for dropping their litter on the streets.I agree that the weather is lousy in the UK but as for everything else, things generally aren't really that different.

Susan

From my own experience I would recommend anyone thinking of moving to another country (any country not just Spain) to keep their UK property (rent it out if necessary) and rent in the country you hope to settle in. That way if things go pear shaped you haven't burnt your bridges and can skidaddle back home.

I truly reget downsizing to a shoebox in the UK to buy a property in Spain. Although not living in Spain full time yet we are having serious doubts about it and can't believe we did what we did, seemed like a good idea at the time.

Regards, Poppyseed.

 Hi Tweety,

I really feel for you and it is a situation that many now find themselves in.

Being in my late 30's (40) with a young family i know how difficult it can be to earn a decent living and as you say without money it doesn't really matter how nice the weather is...

If anything my biggest fear has always been having to go back the UK because of lack of dosh although i have heard that the government dont exactly welcome you back with open arms anyway..?!

The spanish have a way of looking after their own first when it comes to many things and employment is one of them,it may seem strange but i admire them for looking after their own first...it seems the exact opposite in the UK.

I believe the spanish government are currently offering anyone on benefits 12 months payments if they go back to their country of origin and agree to stay away for 3 years hence taking the financial strain off the system.

There are always people ready to knock Spain and is generally people that wanted to come here to milk the cash cow rather than embrace the culture,i will put my hands up and say i am one of the biggest critics of the UK on here but i understand that if it doesn't work out as it doesn't for many the only option is to go back,personally i would try the moon first and work my way back....

As you say money unfortunatley does make the world go around and we need it wherever we live....

I feel very priviliged that at this moment in time i have the great pleasure of being here, it's only the fear of having to go back that drives me on but i wish you all the best, a stark reminder of some of the pitfalls that lie ahead with any move anywhere...

Good luck.

Georgia

georgia

life is still pretty good in the UK for many people, as it is no doubt in Spain. Just a matter of choice?. I would love to rent long term in Spain one day , but buying?????, not for me anymore. From my experience, I think the legal/justice/common sense system stinks compared to UK. 

I agree with you that there are people who are quite happy in the UK. Goodstitch.Most of them are pretty wealthy though or have sound jobs, probably civil servants of some sort.With regards to the comments about justice, common sense etc.I think , as you say, it depends on your own experience.Common sense certainly seems to be in short supply in the UK in my experience and I have been fortunate enough to avoid any dodgy dealings in Spain.( but not so in the UK)

Obviously being a pensioner I am fortunate not to need to work in Spain but I appreciate that life can be virtually impossible for those that do.

Tech, as you have an apartment in Spain is it not possible to let your UK property to support life in Spain? I suppose it depends on your age and what pension rights you have.

Vicki-- Johnnie1UK does seem to have gone a bit OTT doesn't he but I feel there is some substance in what he said and he is entitled to his opinion .

Acupulco

far to many decent people have been conned. Not because they were stupid, but because they rightly expected a contract/Bank Guarantee, planning permission from the local council etc etc, to be worth the paper it's written on. There is no excuse for that not being the case, no more than there is for being conned by other bodies of trust. Lawyers, Mayors, judges, etc.  We all expect agents and developers to be sharks, but at some stage, we all have to trust some legal body to look after our interest. In Spain that trust is far to often betrayed, and due to lack of regulation, is common place.  I think if Spain wants to one day be seen as a good place to buy again, it must change to a system that on the whole treats people fairly.  I feel the current mess was always on the cards while corruption and lies rule!  Obviously this hasn't ruined things for many, but the damage to Spains reputation could take years to recover from?

 Let us not forget that on a whole it is very easy to purchase property in Spain that is both Legal and that fits all requirements for either a great retirement or higher standard of life.........

The legal system has improved and the percentage of illegal builds i have sold in over 5 years in Spain is 0%.

Goodstich states that there are many people that are happy with the state of  the UK.i really do hope so but they seem to very quiet about the fact..........

I keep meaning to stop watching Sky news as it just infuriates me that the country seems to stoop to new lows everyday.

I have many friends who are either active servicemen or recently retired, i sat watching the news with some of them the other day,we stared, mesmerised to see a parade of soldiers who had been fighting for a country and more than likely lost friends and comrades,walk through the streets being spat at, told to go  to hell at and called scum by a gang of muslims,to many this represents the UK of the here and now not Rule Brittannia as it was.

In spain the Police protecting the protesters would have move aside and let the army boys open fire...........

If there many many people who are happy with this as suggested then they are welcome to it....

End of rant............

georgia

yes, I was also appalled at those insults against our brave servicemen on their way home. Everyone i've spoken to feels the same. Part of being a 'free' country though means everyone has a right to protest, should we ban those we don't like?.

I'm not pretending for one moment that the UK doesn't have it's faults, it's just that in the nearly 7 years of experience i've had of the Spanish system, I realise just how good our UK system is in comparison when it comes to property purchase.  Things like lies, corruption, lack of regulation, poor or slow justice, betrayal of trust etc, obviously happen in the UK also, but on nothing like as grand a scale as in Spain. Many of the low-life are indeed from the UK, and operate in Spain 'because they can'.

The current situation speaks for  itself.  Yes, change is being forced by financial collapse in some sectors, bad publicity (Priors springs to mind!), and people like Suzanne doing a wonderful job raising petitions to highlight the ugly truths. Cases against the awful developers are being won at last, so there is hope, and I think will benifit residents and non residents alike in the long run?

 Don't let us think there is no corruption re planning in the UK, I know different. Maybe not on such a big scale as Spain but it is there .Also there are dirty deeds done by people in power, even up to MP level. The only difference is they have "legalised" their dirty tricks but they are still dirty.

As for the "free country" business. Yes free for our enemies to ridicule the country and protecters of the country that gives them a life that is obviously better than the one in their own country. I am not racially prejudiced, just prejudiced against these cowards who know they are untouchable in the UK due to the soft attitude of the government no matter what their colour or religion.

Guess we will have to agree to differ about those things.

Acapulco

I think we are saying much the same thing in some ways, but looking at it from different angles.  I see the untouchable cowards as the low-life who have screwed so many decent people. Due to the soft attitude of the Spanish government when it comes to corruption and lack of regulation, those who are happy to cheat and lie have been allowed to get away with it.  Not least because many in so called high places in Spain have also been part of the corruption and lies!

 Spain has mainly caused it's own downfall in the property business by greed, corruption, lies, lack of regulation, and poor justice. At least it's out in the open now, and the guilty parties are slowly being flushed out. With the damage caused by them and the recession, hopefully lessons will be learned. I find it hard to believe that many are happy with the situation in Spain as it stands today?

Acapulco,

Well said!  I agree wholeheartedly.

i agree completely with tweety5. after 9 years here, i think the people who get on best  are those who cheat and lie and live by their own dubious rules. i wish people would stop running the uk down. it,s nhs is the envy of the world-why else do some ex pats nip back for treatment they are no longer entitled to, by giving a false address to the uk health authority? in every aspect apart from weather( and don't forget the freeze in winter, fry in summer here)taxes-  income tax, inheritance tax, regulation, consumer rights, food, fuel,choice- in everything,utilities, clothes, consumer goods, all are better in the uk. don't answer this by giving your ridiculously cheap council tax in spain as an example- this is negated by all the other expenses in spain. if you have suffered an injustice in spain, the likelihood of putting it right is very slim, and probably down a long, slow, tortuous, financially draining, stressful  route.after 9 years the best advice i could give to a would-be ex pat is, don't sell up and move here. spain is fine for holidays; rent a villa for a few weeks every year, when the cimate is at its best, say may or september, then you will have the best of both worlds and none of the stress.

Campasol,

                     why are you still in Spain if there is so much wrong here and the UK is so great?

Today is our 1 year anniversary and we love it here. O.K., it's not perfect but nothing is but  for us there is no contest, Spain wins hands down and despite the awful exchange rate we find living here is still cheaper than the UK and there is no doubt that people in general seem happier over here than in doom and gloom UK.

Maybe some people just expect to much from life.

I agree Acapulco. We've been here nearly 2 years now and although there have been difficulties, we are still happier & healthier than we were in the UK.  I think it depends on what boxes you need ticking when you move over here. After 6 months the feeling of being on holiday goes and the reality that this is your new life gets a hold, and that can take some adjusting to.

We would not have been able to take early retirement and live in the UK because the cost of living was too high, here we can (even with the exchange rate) and there is no doubt that we feel our quality of life is far better than back in the UK.

We are popping back for a quick visit later this month and I know that within a day of being back in the UK I will be looking forward to getting back on the plane for Spain.

At the end of the day it's not for everyone.  We have seen a huge number of people return to the UK as they have been unable to earn a living here anymore.  Some have left frustrated with the difficultly in understanding the systems here, especially for running businesses (I got caught out myself and have been landed with a huge tax bill, which came as a total surprise).

It does take a good two or three years to know if you really want to stay here.  It is a different way of life and it has its ups and downs.  It's not perfect but nowhere is.

I respect anyone who has at least given it a go, even if they then find it's not really what they wanted.  It does take guts to move to a different country with a different language, be far from family and have to make new friends.

Healthcare is a big issue for expats.  We hear mixed stories about this with some people having very bad experiences, especially in not really understanding what's going on and many therefore return to the UK to a system they understand in their own language.

I was in the UK for a few days last week and I appreciate the good things that the UK has to offer.

I wouldn't personally say one country is better than the other to live in, they are just different with their own pros and cons...and I'm not even thinking about the weather.

Justin

We are in Spain a lot these days but I do like where we are in the UK &, for the time being, we will be keeping both homes. I, personally, like the best of both worlds. (Not so my husband as he wants to relocate to Spain permanently).