Bad Tenants

I have started a new thread because I did not want to impose on the thread below about the dispute with terminating a contract.

This year a number of owners on my website have reported to me that they have had bad tenants.  These are mainly holiday lets where guests are drinking too much and causing trouble in the community.  Plus destroying new curtains, dying their hair and using the supplied towels thus ruining them. This also happened with a long let in Marbella and the tenant had to be threatened with eviction because of the disruption she was causing.

I have to also say that in all cases they were British, not just English either. Not one has reported trouble from any other nationality.

So to help counteract this problem I set up what someone else has already mentioned. A section on the website available only to owners that they can upload information about bad tenants.  Owners can then review the list and hopefully avoid the bad ones.

Perhaps all websites should start doing this?

It is a great shame that bad tenants have to ruin other people's enjoyment and holiday home.

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

Hi Chelseaphil,

Would be interested in feedback from you about the abuse of electricity by tenants as well as damage.  

I have heard stories of tenants going home, the owners going round after a few days to clear up, and all of the air conditioning still being on full. 

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

HI Max, .

That is a new on me.  No one has reported that to me. So I cannot really comment.  Except that I know a number of owners that provide aircon make a weekly charge to cover the cost.  Primarily because many guests do not know that when the aircon is running you should keep doors and windows closed!!

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

Good idea about the E mail blacklist - why not start a web site for renters where they can look up names / passport numbers to see if they have been a problem in the past?

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

Max,

Not a bad idea.  Just wonder about the data protection act though.  I will look into it and see what it entails.  Phil

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

I think that if there were a list of bad payers - or people who had caused real damage - a list is a good idea, and would protect many  landlords.  Conversely, it might be an idea to have a list of bad landlords!
 
However, just two reservations.  

1. How would you be sure that the complainant was genuine? 

2. Not so sure about giving out passport numbers into the public domain, especially with names linked to them.

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

As a landlord - an addendum!!

Just checked my Spanish internet account to find the electricity bill went through today.  Have tenants my house in Spain, and know that it has been "a bit warmer than England" there, but have received the largest summer bill ever in the 4 years that I have been letting the house!  

Can anyone tell me if nearly €170 euros is reasonable for this year for two bed house?

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

Hi Abbbb1

Your bill is actually at the old rate (as I think the electricity prices are only going up just now) so it could be much more next time.

In fact, you have got off quite lightly compared to some people I know.  

A villa with 5 aircon units (approx 1,000W each) if abused - i.e. windows open, A/C on full 24/7 with thermostats set at 18ºC - could end up with an electricity bill of 120€ per week.  Your bill was 2 monthly, which could have come to - as a worst case scenario -  1,000€!! 

This doesn't include the costs of maintenance of the aircon units that are being thrashed all summer.  After all, split A/C units are for domestic use, and parts do wear out with time.  

There is a solution - see our entry in the EOS commercial directory, or look at the web site at the bottom of this post.

Best regards

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

Hi again,

Forgot to answer the other part of your question - a database of bad tenants could be made accessable only to registered property owners / property management companies.  This would prevent the general public trawling through to see if Uncle Harry had his usual smashing time in Benidorm.  

Surely, the credit card companies have blacklists, and as the DVLA seems to sell everything including your inside leg measurement to all and sundry, I can't see that DPA (data protection act) would be an insurmountable problem.

Surely homeowners have the right to protect themselves.

Here's another possibility - if the web server was outside of the EU and all data was stored on that server then under which country's jurisdiction would it be? 

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

Hi All

Data Protection awareness if an important part of my day job - although I am far from an expert.  I think if you told tenants up front that there details would be kept, and given to a 'blacklist' if they damaged your property, and got them to sign an agreement, or stated that by continuing with the booking they agree to this, then you will be on much sturdier ground than just 'blacklisting'them retrospectively

Tracey

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

Thanks Max, for the info on the electric usage!! 
In that case, I'll have to think myself as being lucky!!although I'm not sure that I feel it!! Thank goodness I have only got 3 air-con units!  Found your "solution" interesting reading!!

On the other point (blacklists/data protection), anything legal that could be done, on that front, has got to be a plus.


This message was last edited by abbbb1 on 8/29/2008.

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

Just to let those of you that are interested I am working on setting up a web site for owners to place the names of bad tenants.

I still have to look into the legal standpoints.  And possibly need to have a disclaimer of some kind on the site.  Although I doubt it would happen you never there may be one or two owners that have a grudge against a tenant for no should reason.

Max, I will be in touch with you about your electric solutions. Phil

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

Hi everyone..

I am new to this forum, so would like to pop on and say a quick hello and add my little bit to this discussion.. A couple of questions spring to mind..

Firstly, i do not think this "website" is a good idea. The main reason being that one persons decision to label another a "bad tenant" is purely subjective. It could be for a number of reasons, misunderstanding, miscommunication, my clean is not your clean, it can be very ambiguous to say the least. Unless of course you are talking about tenants that intently damage the property with ill will, or fail to pay rental fees etc, then i can understand them being labelled this, however a few questions for would be landlords....

1) When a landlord decides to offer their property up for let, whether it be short or indeed long term, does this landlord not perform background checks?
2) Do they not carry out regular inspections as agreed at the commencement of the contract between both parties?
3) Do they not take a nice security deposit in the event of damage or non payment of rental fees?

At the end of the day, landlords rent their properties out for one reason only, to make money.. Not to help out those who are looking for a holiday or somewhere to stay while they are working in spain lol  So, with this in mind, there is an element of risk as with any business transaction, and with the above measures in place (at least) surely it would make for a smoother ride??

Tony

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

Just a quick reply to woopeedo.

I let my place out - and yes I sometimes do make some money out of it (which is usually plowed back into improving the property) - but the taxes and repairs, wear and tear and agents fees also take a hefty slice.   In other words there is a huge difference between the gross rental figure and the amount that actually goes in the landlord's bank account!!

If you use an agent , they vet all tenants, (no doubt you could also do this yourself) but then you are reliant on the agents performing their job.  Without going too far into previous posts I have ended up with nearly a couple of thousand euros of repairs/renewals following the departure of tenants - because of the agents not checking inventories and house property on departure - and the deposits were refunded and so I had to foot the bill!!   The deposits would not have covered the repairs/renewals, anyway.  Maybe there should also be a list of good and bad letting agents!

I did not buy my house with the intention of letting, but events precluded me from using the property as much as I would like.  Whilst I agree with you that there is an element of risk in any business, it would be a good idea to try to eliminate as much of it as possible!!

I did comment/query about the legal aspects (previous post), but I feel that any avenue is worth investigating, even if in the end, one decides against it.  As you rightly say, the tenant has to be protected against a disgruntled landlord, and there should probably be some mechanism for a "right of reply" system.

You also say that the landlord is not renting "out of the kindness of his heart" .....      However, letting is a two way transaction - which should in most circumstances be beneficial to both parties.  The tenant wants a home, and the landlord wants a tenant! 

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

woopeedoo, if I can answer your question this way:

1) When a landlord decides to offer their property up for let, whether it be short or indeed long term, does this landlord not perform background checks?

For long lets this is almost always done to some degree. But with short term holiday lets you have to go by the discussions you have with the person making the booking.  A few bad apples get through the net and can cause a lot of damage.

2) Do they not carry out regular inspections as agreed at the commencement of the contract between both parties?

Again only for long lets. Holiday lets have an end of stay check.  This is when problems are often found.

3) Do they not take a nice security deposit in the event of damage or non payment of rental fees?

With long lets Yes always, Holiday lets not always as this can sometimes stop people from booking the property.


Any website that is set up would have to make sure it is properly policed. Property owners will only be allowed to upload information if they have been personally affected. Either by non payment of rent, serious damage to the property, tenants causing trouble in the community and other similar offences. Leaving a property 'unclean'  would not be representative of of a bad tenant for reason you gave.

Landlords may well make money out of renting their property. But surely if someone is going to either live there long term as their own home they should look after it as such.  Same applies to short holiday lets.  Landlords provide a very good service to tenants in that they provide accommodation for people to enjoy a different type of holiday instead of going to hotels.

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

I think that if someone were to be put onto a blacklist, then the property owner should have had to describe damage / debts, maybe supported by photographic evidence.

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

Hey abbbbbbbbbb1 and of course Phil

Lots of bees...
I do understand that not everyone buys to rent out, that was not what i was saying, i was merely pointing out that most landlords rent out to make money, how they operate this business in essence will determine just how much money they make.

I take on board everything you both said, and understand that some tenants can cause problems with damage etc, but with the measures i have outlined you should not be much out of pocket and hopefully with proper background checks you should have some nice tenants who are proud to look after your home.
I have three apartments, and i have rented them all out for around 4 years with little or no trouble at all, and the reason i guess is that i am strict and follow my own guidelines. BUT.. I know, that if was not around to carry out the checks, regular inspections, changeover, contracts etc etc.. or that i knew someone "family or someone i have known for years that i could trust" do carry out this for me, then i would not rent them out, because whilst there are many reputable letting agents out there, some are far from it.
And at the end of they day, when they are putting your property, your money and your future at risk by not doing there job properly then of course, something has to be done.

All the above being said, it seems to me that most of the problems arise out of short term holiday lets.. is the money that much better for those two or three months than over a period of 11 months on long term? Is it worth the hassle? i guess, those are the questions owners should be asking themselves before renting out. I only rent out long term, because as you say Phil, short term you are usually just dealing with someone over the internet and take a minimal deposit..

I guess there is definately no easy answer to these problems, but we can all take precautions as far as possible to secure our futures.

I hope you have better tenants in the future and do not have anymore problems.


Regards

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

abbbb1

Just checked my Spanish internet account to find the electricity bill went through today.  Have tenants my house in Spain, and know that it has been "a bit warmer than England" there, but have received the largest summer bill ever in the 4 years that I have been letting the house!   Can anyone tell me if nearly €170 euros is reasonable for this year for two bed house?

We have just got our bill from Endesa for 10/07/08- 10/09/08. It is a 1 bed apartment with only 1 a/c unit. The bill? €137, so, in reality it is more than yours with 3 units!! Don't really want a meter as it is too old time Butlinsy, but am waiting to find out if the sensor is "man enough" for our cheap a/c units.

Mark

This message was last edited by Marksfish on 9/15/2008.

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

Thanks very much, Marksfish, for that info. 

It's great to get confirmation that the bill  isn't too "out of the way" - especially as I'm footing a large part of the bill!!

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

Hey guys

Just to let you know, i just got my bill in for a 1 bed apartment an it was €142, with 1 air con unit, so i guess thats about average, usually it is about €80 - €100 as i have no gas here, all elec. 

Hope that helps.

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know