VPO Can anyone Advise - Eye on Spain

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Monday, February 12, 2007 motherfirth Parcela I've made 1 posts Send private message to motherfirth	VPO I have owned an apartment in Spain for the last 7 years, and paid the full market price for it at the time of purchase from a Spanish vendor. I had a mortgage with the BBVA Bank which I repaid 3 years ago. I have only recently requested the Escitura from the bank as I have considered selling the apartment and buying a small Villa, The agent I went to see, told me the property I own could be subject to a VPO he went to the land Registry and secured a Nota Simple Informativa for me which seems to confirm this VP O I have never known about this until now, as there is no mention of the VPO on my copy of the Escitura. I have seen a different property’s Escitura and the VPO is mentioned on it however it is not in the same urbanisation but the agent said it should have been on my Escitura as well as the Land Registry document I have also been informed that as I am not a Spanish resident the bank would not have allowed me to have a mortgage on a property with a VPO on it. Is it true that what is written on the Escitura is law in Spain, (Like deeds are law in England) or does the Land Registry document override what is written on the Escitura. I have copies of both which I could fax to you if it would be of assistance. I am confused as to how I should proceed to find the truth regarding this matter. Any advice you could give would be much appreciated. Thankyou Spam post? If so please click here to report it
12 Feb 2007 11:43 PM Roberto Villa I'm in Torremolinos I've made 1541 posts Send private message to Roberto	This could be a tricky issue, I really think you need to speak to a lawyer. Who advised you when you bought the property? Probably the banks own legal people - maybe they can offer some advice now? When you say you paid the full market value, you don't say (and it's none of my business) how much you declared on the escritura. If you declared the full value, it could be that the VPO had already been cancelled or expired, but this was never noted at the land registry (which would seem strange, admittedly). I'm afraid I'm a bit out of my depth here. Maybe Maria (a lawyer member of our forum) can help? _______________________ "For I am a bear of very little brain, and long words bother me" Winnie the Pooh Spam post? If so please click here to report it
13 Feb 2007 12:22 AM EOS Team Moderator I'm in Costa del Sol I've made 2026 posts Send private message to EOS Team	Short of sounding really thick here (and it is late ) what is a VPO? _______________________ Spam post? If so please click here to report it
13 Feb 2007 12:27 AM JeansSis EOS Superstar I've made 2511 posts Send private message to JeansSis	This message was last edited by JeansSis on 5/17/2007. _______________________ Be respectful to other members who try to help. Read forum rules Spam post? If so please click here to report it
13 Feb 2007 2:05 AM Roberto Villa I'm in Torremolinos I've made 1541 posts Send private message to Roberto	VPO = Vivienda Protecion Oficial. Basically, subsidised housing for low income families, but it's WAY too late for me to go into it any more now. _______________________ "For I am a bear of very little brain, and long words bother me" Winnie the Pooh Spam post? If so please click here to report it
13 Feb 2007 2:56 PM Smiley EOS Superstar I'm in Nueva Andalucia I've made 2045 posts Send private message to Smiley	VPO is essentially affordable government housing. I guess the closest parallel you can make to the UK is Housing Association. A VPO order on a property has a pre designated life span - 20 to 25 years. My understanding of it is that a property with a VPO can only be sold or purchased between Spanish residents of a certain income level (however some historically have slipped through the net). As such it is sold at reduced price and also it will have a reduced bank value during the life of the VPO because it cannot be sold on the open market. For example I had a client who decided to buy a VPO property in Fuengirola approx 2 years ago. The VPO had in fact expired but nobody had bothered to register it as such with both the regional government or the Land Registry - this process has taken nearly 20 months. The vendor should in fact not have been able to buy the property in the first place when purchased 10 years ago (as they were non resident) but clearly something happened at the Notary at that time that nobody is aware of now we are in 2007. The purchaser was paying 190,000€ for the apartment but the official assessment for value given was 66,000€. The vendor had to pay a "fine" (administration charge) to have it released from the VPO although the VPO had expired. The 2005/7 vendor had in fact paid cash when they bought the property in 1995 and had not used a lawyer so goodness only knows what was done. Quite where you stand now only a lawyer can advise as per the previous threads but to be certain BBVA should not have advanced the mortgage on it without ensuring the VPO had been removed both at the Land Registry and the regional Government. Rgds _______________________ *Smiley* - patrick@marbellamortgages.com www.marbellamortgages.com *Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit .....but any form of wit is an achievement* NO MATTER HOW MUCH MONEY YOU HAVE GOT, IF YOU HAVE NOBODY TO SHARE IT WITH, THEN ITS JUST NUMBERS IN THE BANK. TO ESCAPE CRITICISM DO NOTHING, SAY NOTHING, BE NOTHING! Spam post? If so please click here to report it
13 Feb 2007 5:45 PM Roberto Villa I'm in Torremolinos I've made 1541 posts Send private message to Roberto	Thanks Smiley, I was far too tired to write that much about it last night! Going back to what I said earlier, it's none of our business of course, but I suspect Motherfirth may have seriously under-declared on the escritura, because this is how Spanish owners of VPOs try to get out of the trap without paying the associated costs of cancelling the VPO. This may potentially lead to a CGT problem now when selling. Fortunately it's now only 18% as opposed to 35% for non-residents. _______________________ "For I am a bear of very little brain, and long words bother me" Winnie the Pooh Spam post? If so please click here to report it
13 Feb 2007 6:03 PM Smiley EOS Superstar I'm in Nueva Andalucia I've made 2045 posts Send private message to Smiley	Indeed - but then in those days she probably did not have the benefit of a site like this warning of the perils of under declaration - if indeed it was explained to her at all that the sale price was being under declared. What intrigues me is how they get these things round the Notary and how BBVA loaned the money to a non res in the first place? OR AM I BEING NAIVE? _______________________ *Smiley* - patrick@marbellamortgages.com www.marbellamortgages.com *Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit .....but any form of wit is an achievement* NO MATTER HOW MUCH MONEY YOU HAVE GOT, IF YOU HAVE NOBODY TO SHARE IT WITH, THEN ITS JUST NUMBERS IN THE BANK. TO ESCAPE CRITICISM DO NOTHING, SAY NOTHING, BE NOTHING! Spam post? If so please click here to report it
13 Feb 2007 6:30 PM Roberto Villa I'm in Torremolinos I've made 1541 posts Send private message to Roberto	Easy answer to that, Smiley! I could tell you some stories, from personal experience, but not here. Don't know who might be watching! According to everything one reads lately, it ain't so easy anymore (and quite rightly, too) Banks especially are getting nervous, and even notaries (previously untouchable, you would have thought) are under close scrutiny. Be warned, all. _______________________ "For I am a bear of very little brain, and long words bother me" Winnie the Pooh Spam post? If so please click here to report it
13 Feb 2007 8:16 PM Smiley EOS Superstar I'm in Nueva Andalucia I've made 2045 posts Send private message to Smiley	Yes mate i know whatcha mean thats why I put the AM I BEING NAIVE in caps - everyone running scared and rightly so - about time the sherrif came to Dodge City - it is not without reason that Notaries are the wealthiest group of people in Spain - except for those dodgy dealers in Banus/N ANdalucia of course (you know what I mean) - then again I am told that is not as profitable as it once was - not that I have first hand experience just bar talk! _______________________ *Smiley* - patrick@marbellamortgages.com www.marbellamortgages.com *Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit .....but any form of wit is an achievement* NO MATTER HOW MUCH MONEY YOU HAVE GOT, IF YOU HAVE NOBODY TO SHARE IT WITH, THEN ITS JUST NUMBERS IN THE BANK. TO ESCAPE CRITICISM DO NOTHING, SAY NOTHING, BE NOTHING! Spam post? If so please click here to report it
16 Feb 2007 1:28 PM mariadecastro Finca I'm in Algeciras (Cadiz) I've made 726 posts Send private message to mariadecastro	VPO needs to be used as first residencies and cannot be higher than 90 m2. The main concerns on having a VPO property is that there are maximum official prices for the resale and that you need to communicate the sale to the Administration first as they have legal preferent buying rights. You can also try to revert the classification of the house as a VPO and sell it in the free market. _______________________ Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA Lawyer Director www.costaluzlawyers.es Spam post? If so please click here to report it
16 Feb 2007 1:43 PM mariadecastro Finca I'm in Algeciras (Cadiz) I've made 726 posts Send private message to mariadecastro	In Andalucia, the most recent law om VPO is the Law 13/2005,.Regarding your particular case, the ommission by developers on the VPO character of houses in the public deeds is fined with 3.000 to 30.000 euros in the administrative realm. The most offcial information on the classification of houses is what is on the Land Registry. The Notray has an obligation on checking on this before authorising the signing on deeds. It is actually a fraud and the contract can be considered as null and void. Anyhow, every case needs to be treated specifically. _______________________ Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA Lawyer Director www.costaluzlawyers.es Spam post? If so please click here to report it
16 Feb 2007 7:50 PM Roberto Villa I'm in Torremolinos I've made 1541 posts Send private message to Roberto	Maria, is it possible that the VPO classification in this case had been "reverted" but not recorded at the Land Registry? Motherfirth declared the full sale price when buying at "market price", which seems to suggest that there was never any mention of the official maximum price. Either the VPO has been cancelled but not recorded at Land Registry, or the notary missed it altogether when the sale took place. When I tried to buy a VPO in Fuengirola a few years back (Myramar - almost all VPO?) the seller wanted 32 million pesetas but "told" me the escritura would only show 16 million ptas! Clearly this could be problematic. Just as a bit of info for anyone following this thread, a VPO building should display a small metal plaque near the entrance declaring itself as such. Look out for it when you're next wandering the streets. You'll be surprised how many times you've passed one without noticing! _______________________ "For I am a bear of very little brain, and long words bother me" Winnie the Pooh Spam post? If so please click here to report it
17 Feb 2007 11:25 AM mariadecastro Finca I'm in Algeciras (Cadiz) I've made 726 posts Send private message to mariadecastro	YEs, it is possible that the house has been un-classified as VPO and turned int a free market unit and this change hasn´t been recorded by the owner in the Land Registry. You can ask for Nota Simple ( Land Registry Certified INformation) in this site: www.registradores.org ( there is an English site in there) _______________________ Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA Lawyer Director www.costaluzlawyers.es Spam post? If so please click here to report it
19 Feb 2007 5:19 PM Smiley EOS Superstar I'm in Nueva Andalucia I've made 2045 posts Send private message to Smiley	Hi Maria sometimes the Nota Simplé doesnt record it. I had a client purchasing a VPO and the Nota Simplé gave no warning. It was only when the full escritura and registration details were checked that it was discovered that the VPO had not been unclassified. _______________________ *Smiley* - patrick@marbellamortgages.com www.marbellamortgages.com *Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit .....but any form of wit is an achievement* NO MATTER HOW MUCH MONEY YOU HAVE GOT, IF YOU HAVE NOBODY TO SHARE IT WITH, THEN ITS JUST NUMBERS IN THE BANK. TO ESCAPE CRITICISM DO NOTHING, SAY NOTHING, BE NOTHING! Spam post? If so please click here to report it

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