Hi again...

I'm looking at some bank repossessions sold without CÉDULA DE HABITABILIDAD or second habitation license.

If I'm buying an apartment is this an issue? Can I move in there without this? Do the authorities pay attention to this and if so how much does a second habitation license cost, who do I apply to & what if they say no? Can I get electric etc in my name/connected without this?

Thanks in advance.

Hi 

Here is a Translation for you.

 Website    http://www20.gencat.cat/portal/site/OVT/menuitem.8d9f3f7e23c1cd519e629e30b0c0e1a0/?vgnextoid=79140103841bb110VgnVCM1000008d0c1e0aRCRD&vgnextchannel=79140103841bb110VgnVCM1000008d0c1e0aRCRD&vgnextfmt=detall&contentid=8109978e7779a310978e7779a3108d0c1e0aRCRD&newLang=es_ES

Thanks for that. The site does not translate though.

Still a bit confused as to:

If I buy a apt. without the SIN, can I move in, can I access mains services, is there a time limit for gaining the SIN, whom do I apply to, what is the cost, do they send round a little man/woman to say yay or nay. If there's othere living the in the block surely if it is as nay they would condem the block & kick everyone out (the latter is tongue in cheek).

David

Hi David

I do not know if there is a time limit.Maybe Maria de Castro of Costaluz Lawyers can help you here. Look for her Legal Tips on the Blog Section of this Forum.

Another useful site

http://www.spanishsolicitors.com/cedula-de-habitabilidad/

many thanks

many thanks

We bought a bank repossession without original COH about 3 years ago. A first licence had been granted but was not available when we purchased. Presumably previous owners took it when they left.

We got electricity reconnected with a new contract in our name but Aguagest would not give us a new contract without a 2nd COH. To get around the problem we left contract in previous owners name and paid the outstanding bills to get water reconnected. All we did was set up direct debit  from our bank.

We did get a new COH from the local townhall  but cost about 500 Euros as we needed an architects report. Eventually the townhall inspector called around, checked bathrooms and kitchens and that was it. Called at townhall for certificate a couple of weeks later. Job done.

Yep that;s about it. This is taken from their site:

Services and pre reconnection charges.

As the properties are direct from the bank, 99% of the properties have had the services of electricity and water disconnected and in most cases the meters removed, therefore the process of reconnection will take in the region of 4 to 8 weeks depending on the area where the property is located.

Here are the steps which need to be done:
1. Application to the town hall for the 2nd license of habitation (valid only 5 years)
2. Payment of taxes for the license.
3. Visit the property either by an architect or the town halls designated architect and wait 4 to 7 days for the report.
4. Visit to the property by an electrician that can issue a Boletin de Alta.
5. Visit by the electritian to repair any faults and wait for the issue of the Boletin de Alta, normally this will take 3 to 4 days.
6. Collection of the 2nd license of habitation.
7. Contact Iberdrola and open a case file for the electricity.
8. Supply Iberdrola with 2nd habitation license, NIE, title deeds and Boletin de Alta, bank account etc.
9. Receive contract from Iberdrola for signing.
10. Wait for Iberdrola to visit to make the reconnection.
11. Contact local water company.
12. Sign contract of connection.
13. Visit by plumber to change any tubes near the water meter if needed.
14. Visit by water company to check the tubes are safe and ok to be connected.
15. Visit by water company to make the connection.

If you are fluent in Spanish or have a good knowledge of the language, you will be able to do the above yourself, if not then we can offer a service to do the above for you for a fee of 500 euros plus costs of pre and reconnection.

We have calculated for the above the following:
1265 Euros for all licenses, payment of architect, plumber and electrician, this will be the absolute maximum and in some cases will be cheaper although if the house needs a lot of work doing to the electrical and plumbing system then obviously this figure could drastically increase.
500 Euros is our charge to contact all the companies, arrange workers and contracts ready for the actual connections. This figure is included in the above amount of 1265 Euros.
When you are buying a property from the bank you are buying it sold as seen, therefore if there is a problem with either the internal or external wiring or plumbing, neither the bank selling the property or Buy Spain Properties SL cannot be held responsable.

Please note that our charge is for the visiting of the property within a reasonable travelling distance from Gandia, this area will be from Valencia to Alicante, if the property is outside this area then you will need to arrange a friend or neighbour to have a key and supply us with the neighbours contact details so we can contact them by telephone and then they can give access to who needs to enter the property.
The payment for our reconnections service will be paid in full on the day of the signing in the Notary, you will be issued a receipt for the money paid and as always any excess money will be returned when connections are finished.

Note: Important. Depending on the town hall where the property is situated, the reconnection process could take anything from 4 to 8 weeks, we are reliant on the town hall to act quickly but certain town halls can take the máximum period to allocate the second cedula needed for the connections, when planning to move in or start working on your property, just in case allow the máximum period of 8 weeks just to be sure. Also if you are thinking to by a villa which is situated on rustic land, please contact the relevant town hall to ask there policy on rustic land and second cedula´s as some town halls will not issue the license and without this it is virtually imposible to get mains services.

After the reconnections have been made, the electricity and water company will take payments from you account for the actual reconnection itself, meters etc.

WOW! Talk about a palarva.

batbrit....Welcome to Spain, where most things are a bit of a palarva, to quote your own words! They certainly have their own way of doing things, or not doing, as the case may be.

Second Occupation License is not granted if the house lacks First Occupation License.Regulation is regional. Where is the house located?

Maria,

In this day and age how can any Spanish Bank be allowed to sell any property that has never had an LFO (Licence of first occupation) issued when the following applies:

1) you cannot legally inhabit it

2)the LFO requires that the surroundings have been urbanised to the standards laid out in the original construction licence, or partial urban plan.

3)  an LFO confirms that a newly-built property fully complies with all planning and building regulations, and is fit to be used as a dwelling.

4) an LFO confirms compliance with all health, safety, planning and construction laws, and that the property has been fully completed, with no outstanding works.

5) a property is not legally recognised as fit for human habitation without an LFO.

Doesn't this need to be recognised not only by all prospective purchasers but also by those responsible for Banking regulation in Europe?

I fully agree with you ADS

In response to the OP, it seems to me that the cedula is one of those legal things that don't really matter but that a maliciously inclined civil servant can nail you wit if he feels he needs to be causing some trouble. I did a poll among my neighbours and quite a few either don't have this document or don't know whether they have one. I don't think the police or anbody else will ever come knocking on your door asking to see it so theoretically you might never actually need to produce it.

Of course when it comes to selling the property, and especially if a bank needs to get involved, the story is different. But esepcially with the market being as it is now, quite a lot of people are buying with cash so the bank doesn't matter.

The problem being however that no matter when the property was sold, any future prospective purchaser requiring a mortgage in years hence would be denied a mortgage on the property and would never be "legally" entitled to rent it if ever they so required. 

The property without licence in place as such becomes blighted by these restrictions for those who subsequently take ownership, thus limiting its future market potential, not to mention the insecurity from the threat of it being subsequently deemed an illegal build if no first licence had ever been issued for the property. 

Banks should never be allowed to sell properties under these circumstances and should be made responsible for ensuring that all legal licences are in place prior to purchase. Why should any subsequent financial burden to acquire the licence be placed on the purchaser?

Why perpetuate a system that places purchasers at risk in this way and in the process blights the property? 

In Valencia Region, since July 2014, First Occupation License functions , in terms of proving  the building has all necessary conditions for the use which has been established by Urban Planning regulations, has been substituted by a liability declaration by developer. 

Are Banks now legally obliged to check that all REQUIRED licences are in place and that all urban planning laws/regulations have been adhered to for all reposessed properties that they are endeavouring to sell, prior to sale?

Are Banks effectively regulated in this regard, or will there be thousands more purchasers placed at potential risk from Banks not adhering to existing laws (a prime example being their previous non compliance with Ley 57/68), nor making the necessary checks to ensure compliance with urban planning regulations ?

Banks are bound as any other seller.

Out of current experience with conveyancing, each cases is different and have its particularities, so it is essential to have a good independent lawyer--- with good knowledge and experience in property law, horizontal property law and Planning law--- for a safe purchase.

I agree entirely Maria, but this is dependent upon conveyancing lawyers such as your goodself being independent and undertaking due diligence to the letter of the law on behalf of their clients.

As evidence to date has demonstrated this has been sadly lacking for all too many innocent purchasers in Spain. For purchasers to be consistently protected in this regard, all law firms and Banks should be effectively and better regulated by those authorities/professional bodies responsible.

Until such measures and consistent, timely regulatory enforcements against malpractice/lack of due diligence/non compliance with law are enacted to act as adequate disincentive, then purchasers will continue to remain at risk in Spain.

p.s. Let this article just identified on EOS highlight the severe problems that continue to place purchasers at potential risk from the failure of due diligence by all concerned

see http://murciatoday.com/residents-on-camposol-are-urged-to-check-their-property-paperwork_25632-a.html#.VTtm4fBV6IB

Ads: Thanks for your supporting words always Ads.

As a conveyancing firm we are having our new after-crisis experiences with off plan units which are being very learning and interesting.

In Valencia Region, for instance, Housing act establishes FOL as obligatory for transmission of off plan properties to buyers, while, Urban Act sets that a liability declaration by developer makes the functions of FOL.

Every region is different, that is why the help on an independent specialist is a must.

Should not be answering forum questions on a saturday evening... but...I am with a terrible spring cold at bed