How does a Community Work?

Post reply   Start new thread
:: New - Old :: Old - New

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | ... | Next |

Forum home :: Latest threads :: Search forums
The Comments
01 Dec 2006 12:00 AM by B-Grrrrl Star rating in Wollaston, Stourbrid.... 29 posts Send private message

B-Grrrrl´s avatar
Hello!

Being very green to how things work in Spain I have absolutely no idea about communities, and didn't really know they existed until finding this website!

We've purchased an apartment in a large block, just outside Estepona.  We only get to go 3 or 4 times a year for long weekends, so we've been quite ignorant to the fact that whilst we're moaning about the shoddy finish of the building and wondering who we can talk to, there are actually residents who are trying to do something about it.

Last weekend I was at the apartment and I've brought back a set of minutes from a community meeting that were pushed under the door. After some difficult translation exercises I've worked out that the community are trying to take the developer to court to resolve the problems mentioned above

There's also a list (titled Relation of Pending Receipts) of residents with different amount of monies next to their name.  Is this money that they are expected to pay into the Community coffers so they can afford to hire solicitors?

Can anyone give me a basic explanation of how a community works please then I might be able to fit the pieces of my terribly translated minutes together!!

Many thanks

H



Like 0      
01 Dec 2006 6:41 PM by EOS Team Star rating in In Spain of course!. 4015 posts Send private message

EOS Team´s avatar
We have various articles on this website about the running of communities.  Check out:

http://www.eyeonspain.com/spain-magazine/president-community.aspx

http://www.eyeonspain.com/spain-magazine/communities-in-spain.aspx

http://www.eyeonspain.com/spain-magazine/community-horizontal-1.aspx


http://www.eyeonspain.com/spain-magazine/community-horizontal-2.aspx

Regarding the "Relation of Pending Receipts" this is the list of owners who have arrears in payment of their community fees.  If you're name's on it then it means you owe money.

_______________________

Schools in Spain Guide | The Expat Files | Learn Spanish | Earn a living in Spain




Like 0      
03 Dec 2006 11:13 AM by promedia Star rating in Cheshire/Riviera del.... 134 posts Send private message

In setting up our community website i added a few useful editorials i picked up, this may help you?

Took this off a website as it gives a very clear explanation of the community charge system.

What is a comunidad de propietarios?

Properties located in a development, popularly known as “urbanisations” in Spain; usually share communal facilities such as gardens, and services such as those of a maintenance person. All new urbanisations are the responsibility of the promoter or builder until they are all completed and sold. The responsibility is then handed to the comunidad de propietarios (the community of property owners) which you automatically join when you buy your property in Spain. Spanish law gives legal status to this community so that it can regulate the joint ownership of common property e.g. gardens, pools etc

Once you have completed on your property, you are notified and invited to attend a meeting to formally hand over the responsibility of general upkeep of the collective properties to a newly formed community of owners. Amongst the owners, someone must be elected as President and another as Vice President. An administrator is also elected, although for the first year it is normal practice to use the administrator put in place by the developer. The administrator and the committee members sort out the day to-day business of the community and call meetings when matters arise. The committee is annually elected. They hold yearly meetings during which a budget is approved by the Owners covering the expenses for the year. This budget is then divided between owners depending on the percentage contribution for each property as set out in the title deeds.

In some urbanisations where there are a mixture of houses and apartments, the apartment owners tend to pay a higher community fee than the house owners. In the urbanisation where we live owners of a two bedroom first floor apartment pay 170 euros per quarter, whereas the owners of a three-bed roomed town house pay just 55 euros per quarter. This is surprising, but you must consider that the area around apartments incur more expenses e.g. stairwell cleaning and lighting, lift maintenance, garage cleaning and maintenance etc. There are numerous factors which determine the cost of community fees including:

The number of apartments that share a block.
The more there are, the more there are to share the cost
The position. The higher you go the more you pay and you may also be charged more for enjoying a view!
The total number of properties in an urbanisation. The size of a development (total area).
In some rather unfair cases where a development consists of many phases, owners of completed phases may be expected to temporarily subsidise the community fees of the uncompleted phases. This is because the green areas, the pools etc which are intended for the entire use of the development still need to be maintained. We heard of a case in Marbella, where the owners of the completed phase are paying one thousand euros per month community charges. The construction of the other phases hasn’t yet started so it is likely that they will continue to pay this for the next few years! Seems very unfair really.

The percentage of the budget that each property pays is set in the Title Deeds (escritura) as this is determined by the developer. The Community fees are normally paid quarterly or half-yearly depending on the Community. Expenses vary according to services required and include salaries and social security for those employed by the community (gardeners, pool attendants, hall porters etc), repairs, electricity for the lighting of common areas, administration fees.

Every owner must pay their community fees on the date set by the members at the Annual General Meeting. If any of the members fail to pay the community fees, the President or the Administrator may claim the debt, previous authorisation of the community members, in the Court of First Instance from the city where the block of flats is located, and even have the property sold at auction to recover unpaid charges.

The Town Hall will also make a charge for the Rubbish collection (Basura) from your property or development. This can be charged annually or quarterly depending on the Municipality in which you are purchasing the property. In certain cases, this may be included in your community fees.

In certain municipalities, there is an annual charge for the Recycling Tax (Tratamiento de Residuos). This covers the recycling of waste from the numerous glass, paper, and battery banks that are distributed throughout the area. Again in some cases, this may be included within the Community fee.

Most properties have electricity and water meters and you will be charged according to the amount of each consumed. Some communities will only have one meter for the whole development and therefore include the water in the Community Fees.


_______________________

Ian Cook - Golf Gardens Miraflores - The best place to live on the Costa del Sol

"A day without sunshine is like.................night"




Like 0      
04 Dec 2006 12:56 PM by B-Grrrrl Star rating in Wollaston, Stourbrid.... 29 posts Send private message

B-Grrrrl´s avatar

Ahhhhhh I understand a little more now! 

Thanks both for the info :-)

 




Like 0      
04 Dec 2006 3:22 PM by lewjan62 Star rating in West Sussex / Casare.... 134 posts Send private message

lewjan62´s avatar

If only changing the community President was straightforward. We have had the same president since completion 2yrs ago despite trying to vote otherwise at the AGM's.

When the President is also the representative of the developers (grupo jale) and they still have 51% of the properties still on their books they hold the majority.

The views and wishes of the people who actually own/live on site are not uppermost in the developers minds. Control is!! 


_______________________
Jan   www.apartment-on-costadelsol.co.uk  



Like 0      
05 Dec 2006 9:12 AM by manilvajl Star rating in Manilva as much as p.... 426 posts Send private message

Make sure the developers are payings their 51% of the fees, if they are, they have the majority of the votes. If not you can vote the president out if the other votes add up to more than 50%. Check the accounts its you right to see a copy of the accounts at anytime. Also, if you can call an EGM anytime and vote then out if you have 50% plus votes. By % I mean votes by quota ownership, not one vote per dwelling.. Read english version of Horizontal Law. To check all of the above.

_______________________

 Jeff




Like 0      
05 Dec 2006 9:59 AM by grandcanyon Star rating. 25 posts Send private message

It is not just in Spain that you can have problems with administrators. I have had experience of owning an apartment in a comlex the the UK, and the developer kept one apartment so he could hold the "Golden Share" so the other Leaseholders views were ignored. The developer appointed the firm responsible for the maintenance of the complex, and they were abysmal. They took an 8% fee from the insurance charge, which was about £10K, and had associated companies supplying some of the maintenance. We exerted severe pressure on them for a period of 2years; with a large number of leaseholders delaying the payment of fees; and they finally they gave up. We now have a new company which has been selected by us and the service we get is excellent.

Everyone need to remember that the issues on these pages are just typical of owning a property in a complex no matter which country it is in.




Like 0      
05 Dec 2006 11:31 AM by manilvajl Star rating in Manilva as much as p.... 426 posts Send private message

Sorry, forgot to say they only have voting rights if they are fully paid up, not just for the current year but if you check all the previous accounts and they are in default on any payments they dont have the (quota) votes.

_______________________

 Jeff




Like 0      
07 Dec 2006 11:22 AM by davey Star rating in Wigan /La Tercia Mur.... 205 posts Send private message

davey´s avatar
Any advice we are purchasing on a new development,can any one inform me when would the developer hand over the development to the community.Also does the developer,look after the development till the community commitee is formed.Does each apartment block set their own rules,or is it one set of rules for the whole development.



Like 0      
10 Jan 2007 6:39 PM by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4551 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

In answer to original post - There's also a list (titled Relation of Pending Receipts) of residents with different amount of monies next to their name -

Unfortunately,  I think you will find this refers to the community fees still outstanding from various owners. This is one of the biggest problems facing many communities; when some owners don't pay up on time, and as a result there are insufficient funds in the kitty, communal facilities and more importantly essential routine maintenance start to get neglected. In a new community, this can give the developer the perfect get-out; unless there is concrete proof to the contrary, the developer will simply claim that, for example, the poor condition of the garden is due to the community's lack of maintenance, rather than that they failed to deliver what was promised. (See my next article on being president, A Year In The Life Of The President - part 3, coming soon to EOS!)

In answer to davey, the developer cannot hand over to the community until the Licence Of First Occupation has been issued by the local authority. When handing over, if not all the properties have been sold, the developer should pay the quota for these, but in reality probably won't. Any one got experience of this? As for whether each block in a community has it's own rules, I suppose that depends on the individual development and what is decided by the community, but if there are any shared facilities (e.g. pool or gardens) then surely there has to be one set of rules for everyone?  


_______________________

 

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




Like 0      
12 Jan 2007 10:00 PM by davey Star rating in Wigan /La Tercia Mur.... 205 posts Send private message

davey´s avatar

Hello Roberto

Thanks for the information, look forward to reading your next article. Any other inforamtion, on how the community works will be appreciated.  

 




Like 0      
17 Feb 2007 6:13 PM by deniseatnycs Star rating in Sol Golf Nr Villamar.... 136 posts Send private message

deniseatnycs´s avatar
We were handed our urbanisation three years ago when more than 20 out of just over 100 apartments were still owned by the builder.  Three years down the line he still has 8 for sale but during the whole of that period he has paid (under duress) the Community charges on all the properties.  As he has always paid in arrears we have charged him 20%  of the original charge plus 10€ a property. (passed at the second A.G.M.)  We are fortunate that we have always had enough money in the Community account to pay the day to day bills and the odd extras that turn up, so waiting for the builder´s money has not been a hardship.  We are going shopping with the (fine) money for loungers etc., for the Communal pool. 

_______________________
Denise



Like 0      
19 Feb 2007 3:35 PM by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4551 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

Nice to hear things are going smoothly in your community. We are having our AGM next month and are planning to implement a system to either fine late payers or offer a discount to prompt payers (same cat different smell). I think this is a subject which will be of interest to many.

Enjoy your loungers this summer!


_______________________

 

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




Like 0      
20 Mar 2007 11:15 PM by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4551 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar
How does a community work? Well, I'll be chairing our annual meeting tomorrow evening as president, and I just realised I have been handed poders (proxy votes) representing 25% of the total, by members who can't/can't be bothered to attend. I'm flattered at this apparent vote of confidence, and it should make matters pretty damned easy for me I guess, but it also indicates that there's b*gger all chance of avoiding another year at the helm! Ho hum! Wish me luck.............

_______________________

 

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




Like 0      
20 Mar 2007 11:40 PM by Smiley Star rating in San Pedro de Alcanta.... 2502 posts Send private message

Smiley´s avatar
Will you be chairing a meeting of one - as you are likely to have the largest % of votes can I suggest you introduce compulsory nude sunbathing for the ladies of the community on any day with a Y in it that the sun is out. We can then start selling tickets and make a few bob - seriously have a good meeting and may all your disputes be minor ones.

_______________________

Smiley - patrick@marbellamortgages.com  www.marbellamortgages.com   www.comparetravelcash.co.uk




Like 0      
22 Mar 2007 8:06 PM by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4551 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar
Bloody hell, Smiley you must be clairvoyant. One of our members drove all the way from Madrid day before yesterday to attend the meeting. She turned up late to the meeting, left early, and today she was sunbathing topless in the garden, showing off her surgically enhanced "assets".

_______________________

 

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




Like 0      
22 Mar 2007 10:34 PM by Smiley Star rating in San Pedro de Alcanta.... 2502 posts Send private message

Smiley´s avatar
Lucky you - now I know why the apes head moves from side to side - nip to nip

_______________________

Smiley - patrick@marbellamortgages.com  www.marbellamortgages.com   www.comparetravelcash.co.uk




Like 0      
22 Mar 2007 11:42 PM by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4551 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar
Even better result of last night's meeting - one of our habitual late payers - an absentee owner who nobody has ever met before - turned up to their first meeting, and promptly handed over a standing order mandate with their bank details completed. Happy days! Made me feel a bit foolish harping on about the need to implement a system to penalise late payers when we reached that topic on the agenda, but there's still another culprit, and one never knows what the future holds, so it's all on record now anyway.

_______________________

 

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




Like 0      
22 Mar 2007 11:46 PM by Smiley Star rating in San Pedro de Alcanta.... 2502 posts Send private message

Smiley´s avatar
Woops - copping a guilty plea - you have reminded me that my bill has been in my to do file in the office for about 5 weeks now - will be done first thing tomorrow - dont want to get named and shamed at our next one.

_______________________

Smiley - patrick@marbellamortgages.com  www.marbellamortgages.com   www.comparetravelcash.co.uk




Like 0      
23 Aug 2007 11:35 PM by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4551 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

Just wanted to share this gem with you all:

I was talking to a friend today, who recently attended their annual community meeting. Since there were NO volunteers for the role of president, they had to draw straws. Legally, every community member is obliged to take their turn at some point, so if nobody steps forward, this is how it has to be decided.

The lucky winner was an Englishman, who does not live in Spain, and was not at the meeting. So for now he is blissfully unaware of his new role. But here's the best bit.........he OWES 2 and a half years community fees!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How does a community work? Beats me!



_______________________

 

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




Like 0      

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | ... | Next |

Post reply    Start new thread


Previous Threads

Motoring Organisations - 2 posts
Feliz Navidad - 2 posts
SuperiorworldWide ? - 1 posts
My pics - 2 posts
Is spain in france - 0 posts
INFO PLEASE - 0 posts
medication - 27 posts
angela G - 4 posts
Disablility in Torrevejeia - 0 posts
Spanish Inheritance Tax - 48 posts
Millennium Worldwide - 5 posts
EasyJet seats for summer 2007 are now being sold - 4 posts
WANTED TO RENT - 9 posts
Daily service from Gibraltar to Madrid - 0 posts
new town plan - 2 posts
Independent - 23 posts
Driving Licences - 26 posts
Electricians - 1 posts
Transporting goods to Spain - 13 posts
Skiing in Sierra Nevada - 13 posts
Electricity & Water Charges - 46 posts
Mirador Linked Villas - Fuente de Piedra - 2 posts
Buying and running a car in Spain - 21 posts
long term car rental - 3 posts
New Photos from Daniela - 0 posts

Number of posts in this thread: 178

DISCLAIMER:  All opinions posted on these message boards are the opinion solely of the poster and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of Eye on Spain, its servants or agents.


1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 |
Our Weekly Email Digest
Name:
Email:


This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse you are agreeing to our use of cookies. More information here. x