As a Pensioner non resident but spending a great deal of time here. Can I register with a doctor/

I am a pensioner who now spends as much time as possible in Spain but does not wish to take up residency. Can I register with a doctor. I ask this in particular because I have a number of serious health issues,and am concerned that I may need to see a doctor or go to hospital in an emergency at some point, and do not have an up to date SIP. At present I am renting in Spain for a 6 month exstendible period, but have to return to the UK approx every 3 months for hospital appointments. I do have a current European Health card, and have been isued with short term SIPs in the past when visiting Spain for shorter periods and having to seek doctors help. Can anyone tell me where I stand as a non resident please!!!!

My guess is NO. You need residencia and the form from Newcastle whatever it is called now.

tigress does not wish to take up residency so will not be entitled to Health Care except for that provided with the EHC.

Yes, because she spends more that 183 days here in any one year she should register but if she does not she is not entitled and Spain is much less inclined to hand out sip cards to those who do not qualify now.

Karen says she (Tigress) doesn't want to be resident in Spain because that's what she clearly said herself, although technically she is whether she likes it or not. She probably doesn't "want" to register as a resident because she doesn't want to lose her UK health entitlement, which she will, if she applies in the proper way for full cover in Spain as a resident EU pensioner. Although in her circumstances one would think it's a reasonable thing to expect in our united states of Europe, to be able to visit a doctor for non-urgent consultations anywhere in the EU, it's not (technically) possible, as you only get this service in your country of residence, and you can only be (officially) resident in one country. The solution in this case I guess is to either wing it and try to get a health card here without going through the correct procedure of obtaining an S1 from Newcastle, and hope to get away with it (although plans to clamp down on this type of thing have just been announced) or go private.

 I think Karensun can say tigress doesn't want to be a resident as she says so in the very first line of her post.

Some areas of Spain (Valencia region for one) allows you to obtain a provisional SIP card once you have signed on the padron.  This card is valid for 6 months at a time and you can renew it up to 4 times by signing on the padron again.  You need to show your EHIC to get one and this will allow you access to a GP.  It will not, however, allow you access to secondary care so the GP can't refer you to a specialist.  You also have to pay for prescriptions with the same discount as those who have not registered with their S1.  You must show the provisional SIP card and your EHIC every time you consult with a GP.  The only way to get a permanent SIP with access to GP, specialists and free prescriptions (for now) is to register your S1 from UK.

Thanks Roberto and bobaol..................................................

Here it is..............................

basically you should be resident here if you live here for more that 183 days and really you should not have medical care in two different countries for free ( except in an emergency ).

 As an update, the new proposals going to government are clamping down on "health tourism" as said.  It may be that getting a provisional health card just by signing on the padron could be a thing of the past.

 Under the EU double taxation agreement fiscal residency does not depend on how many days you spend in any country. The critera is where your principle economic activity takes place.

So for example if you own a property in UK and your income comes from the UK then that's where you are officially fiscally resident.

The 183 days is confusing. You are supposed to register as a 'resident' if you spend more than that time in Spain but your fiscal residency (country where you pay tax) can remain in the UK under the EU agreements.

The main thing tigress was asking about is medical care.

Unless she is resident in Spain she cannot access the medical system here except in an emergency.

Micky

Your post and the information it contains contradicts everything most people on this site say about tax and residencia - I however have always been a little sceptical that Resident and Tax Resident are the same thing.

It would be good if Johnx and others could come back and we could finally get to the bottom of this once and for all.

 You can also be 'tax resident' in two EU countries. If you have a government service pension you cannot have it taxed elsewhere. So you have to remain tax resident in UK. 

However this does not prevent any other income you may have from being taxed in Spain even though that income may originate from UK.

The affect of course is legally receiving two personal tax allowances..Nice work if you can get it.

I realise I'm off topic but  I wanted to make that point. The previous poster is correct. As a pensioner you cannot get normal medical treatment legally from the state system in Spain unless you register with a form S1.

The EIMC is for emergencies only and they are now restricting it's usage everywhere in Europe. Private medical Insurance is the only other option.

Team GB  "finally get to the bottom of this once and for all ".    This is often at the discretion of the taxman, the rules are vague and ambiguous and the taxman is a law unto himself who will interpret it on the day. There was a recent case of a millionaire who had hardly stepped foot in the UK for years but he still had an expensive house there and bank accounts, they decided he was tax resident in the UK and  he had to pay milllions in back taxes even though he lived outside the UK and EU. However a friend of ours worked outside the UK for years, spent less than 90 days in the UK each year, received his salary from a UK company and had a house in UK, he completed a tax return every year and was classed as non tax  resident.

Poppyseed,

I suspect the millionare was not paying tax anywhere,  or not one which the UK Gov acknowledged and that was why he had to pay up.

 I claim physical residency and tax residency is not the same animal. The 183 days is a guide or cut off point.There has to be one.

Howver one does not necessarily make you liable for the other. What it makes you liable for is personal residency registration, tax matters then remain to be decided, dependent on your particular situation.

Poppyseed is right in that it's for HMRC to decide on the evidence you produce. The Hacienda will not claim you’re a liable tax resident in Spain if the HMRC dispute that and insists to the contrary.

In the end you have to pay tax somewhere. It's really up to the individual to decide with the help of an accountant. We can all quote our own interpretation of the rules but in my experience once you volunteer to pay up somewhere, little will be said.

I would point out that the 3 months requirement for residency in any fiscal year can be extended to 183 days depending on the date of your official arrival in the country. In any case it's almost never challenged.

This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 30/04/2012.

M;icky

. It's really up to the individual to decide with the help of an accountant.

Sorry again. it's the tax laws which dictate where one must pay.  One cannot choose.  If one gets it wrong they can end up paying tax twice and then trying to claim it back.

As I said, one MUST register after 3 month permanenlty in Spain not 183 days.  However, if one spends a total of 183, although not three months PERMANENTLY they are still Tax Resident.

Mickyfinn "but in my experience once you volunteer to pay up somewhere, little will be said."   That was probably true in the past, however everywhere from local councils to national governments are trying to claw in as much as they can from wherever they can so I think they will scrutinise things much more closely in the future. It will matter if you have chosen to be tax resident in a country that is more beneficial to you but another country less beneficial claims you are tax resident there. Having said that I think it's those with the megabucks who will be the first in line for such scrutiny.

I did read on a tax website a while ago that if you do actually live in more than one country but less than 183 days in each then you can choose where to be tax resident but if you don't choose the tax authorities will decide for you.