Transfer of ownership from moral owner to legal owner when consent is not given

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16 Oct 2011 00:00 by coleen Star rating. 68 posts Send private message

 Here's a tricky one and I am hoping somebody might be able to give me some clues.

My elderley friend (I have written re advice for him before) wants to sell his property and I had agreed to pass the word on for him in the hope of finding a buyer.

Our first problem was that he couldn't recall ever having had an Escritura and people on the forum kindly pointed me in the right direction.  The result was that we obtained a Copia Simple from the Registro for him a couple of months ago.

My friend happend to mention that he hoped that it was his name on the Copia Simple and not that of his son - who also bears the same name albeit with the addition of a middle name.

On checking the Copia Simple it states that it is in the name of whom now transpires to be his son as it bears the middle name of his son and also a NIE number.  My elderly friend has neither a middle name nor a NIE number.

It was then revealed by said elderly friend that because he did not live in Spain, therefore did not have a NIE number, but his son did, it was decided that the property would be put in the son's name.

Additionally, the reason for doing this was that a bank loan was required and this was taken out in the son's name with his father feeding money into the account to pay for it. 

This all happened approx. 12 years ago.  Unfortunately the son has now fallen out with the father big style and refuses to talk to him.  No idea what that is about! 

My question is this - is there any chance that the father can get legal possession of the property?  and if so, what would he have to prove?

A big ask I know!





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17 Oct 2011 09:10 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 3360 posts Send private message

May I suggests that this is not the sort of question which one would normally expect to receive a competent / comprehensive  answer to in the forum, and that you should go to lawyer.
 
Just in passing though: If the bank was given false information regarding the ownership of the property  when the load was applied for (i.e. who the true owner was) then there may be a question of fraud, and that problem may arise in any subsequent legal proceedings



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17 Oct 2011 10:29 by coleen Star rating. 68 posts Send private message

 Many thanks for your thoughts on this.  You are of course absolutely right - this is a serious problem and the services of a solicitor would be the ideal answer and indeed this may be the route my friend will have to follow. Except he doesn't have the money and lives in the UK.  

However, if there are any general suggestions or ideas out there, I would like to put them to him so that he has some idea of the way forward. 

Any other pointers welcome! 





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17 Oct 2011 11:19 by Faro Star rating in London. 1156 posts Send private message

Possibly an intermediary could communicate with son to resolve.

All son needs to do is sign a POA.

If son paid money towards the property, mortgage or believes he has some claim to equity then he will say so ......





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18 Oct 2011 16:35 by coleen Star rating. 68 posts Send private message

 I am now told that it was in fact the father's bank account that the loan was paid from.  The son was given the legal right to make the payments from his father's account.

No idea why the father didn't just set up a standing order except that the property was being restored at the time, so payments were also being taken from the father's account to pay for those.

 

Just one hopefully easier question though - is the Copia Simple as at the time of issue irrefutable proof of ownership?  ie the copia simple I obtained for him earlier this year states that it is his son who is the owner.  Is there any remote chance that this was previously altered and that the Copia Simple does not reflect this?

Many thanks.

 





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18 Oct 2011 16:47 by Faro Star rating in London. 1156 posts Send private message

The nota simple should reflect the details as per the escritura - unlikely to be incorrect.

If you wanted to be 100% then you could go to notary where the deeds were signed and obtain a copy of the escritura/deeds.





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18 Oct 2011 17:04 by coleen Star rating. 68 posts Send private message

 Many thanks for that Faro, much appreciated.





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27 Oct 2011 14:06 by DMS Star rating in Spain. 27 posts Send private message

DMS´s avatar

 

The response is that unfortunately the legal owner of the property is his son and therefore the father cannot sell the property without the consent of his son (who is the legal owner of the property) it doesn't  matter that the money was provided by the father. To all effects the property is legally owned by the son who's name is on the deed, and therefore he is the only person who can sell the property. Unfortunately there is no other solution.
 
If the father was the one who gave the money in this transaction, he could look in to taking legal action against his son in the courts to claim the money from him but not the ownership of the property,  It would all be a matter of proving it to the court with strong evidence (documents) and this would  have to be sorted out with a court resolution.
 
 
 
  
 


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