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Monday, May 07, 2007
stevie G
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I'm in Conwy, North Wales & Dream Hills 2 Los Altos, Orihuela.
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Hi all
We bought with parador october 05 - R4 Dream hills 2 we had a letter from the builder saying completion date was set for 31st January o7 we have been ringing parador since then and keep being told the hold up is just the habitation licence. we did meet people at the meeting for the urbenisation who seemed to be in the same boat even though some had moved in without it. When we got back to the uk we thought maybe a good idea to bypass parador and ring our solicitors to see if they could give us any more information and they contacted the builders , guess what? the reply was could be three to four months before we get the habitation licence. Are Domus our solicitors telling everyone else the same. steve G
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07 May 2007 12:04 PM
Tish
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There are thousands of properties/developments awaiting habitation licences (LFO). It could be as little as 3/4 months to wait or as much as 1 year+. Our Lawyer has told several of us that some developments will take at least a year. Advice is...don't be tempted to complete without one. It is a situation that is frustrating many people..buyers/lawyers/developers alike.!
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07 May 2007 6:13 PM
tinasolera
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As a general rule can you get a mortgage without the LFO?
Tina
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07 May 2007 6:16 PM
EOS Team
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I think some banks will issue a mortgage without LFO but it's probably generally only those with vestred interest in the development.
Maybe Smiley can comment on this....
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07 May 2007 6:39 PM
jules1
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Hi Steve,
My completion date was Dec 06 and I am still waiting for the habitation licence for Dream Hills 2. I am in such a quandry now to know what to do. I desperately do want to complete and my friend, who is a joint owner with me has her annual holiday in June so we are booked to go out then.
Please will any readers give advice. The bank are quite prepared to release the mortgage having heard Torrevisa are the builders. Surely they would not do this if they thought there would be a problem in the future. I really can't afford to keep going over there without completing. Torrevisa's lawyers informed mine that the town hall had turned the habitation licence down on their first visit due to some small defects (unspecified), but thought it would not be long!
Steve could you let me have the builders address so I can write to them direct, as they have not contacted me at all; the only contact I have had is through MASA.
Regards Julia
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07 May 2007 6:55 PM
Pitby
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Not wanting to appear completely dense, but it would appear (from information from members on this forum, at least) that you can obtain a mortgage without an LFO.
I can totally understand investors' reasoning in completing without the licence in certain developments, in that they could either lose their deposits (even after taking legal proceedings) or, go with it, complete with an interest only mortgage and stick it out in the hope it gets finalised. At the end of the day, if there is something wrong with the building licence, LFO, etc., they have restricted their loss as much as possible. And if it all goes well, they're okay. (There was a certain member (!) who posted a detailed post of his very own same situation, which I am sort of quoting from).
I can name a few on this forum that have completed without the LFO - not saying that this is the best course of action, but there are many investors out there who are in a situation where they feel it may be the best thing for them. Even though you are not legally required to do so, as a buyer (I believe?).
JeansSis, amongst others, (AND WHERE IS SHE, BY THE WAY???), I believe, was in a position where they completed without the LFO (don't know if they had a mortgage though), and it has turned out okay for them.
Personally, besides all the legalities, this has to be a situation where the individual investor has to make the call, after considering all the facts, to protect their own interests - whether they go ahead and complete or not. Don't need to mention that good legal advice won't go amiss!!
This message was last edited by Pitby on 5/7/2007.
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07 May 2007 7:21 PM
tinasolera
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HI
All the people i know who have completed without an LFO havnt needed mortgages ........so if anyone out there has completed without the LFO and got a mortgage then let us know, there is a bit of confusion on this matter!! 
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07 May 2007 8:23 PM
bobaol
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You don't need an LFO to get a mortgage.
In a lot of cases, LFO's aren't issued until a long time after the property is built. For example, on a big developement, many people may move into (say) phase 1 but LFO's aren't given until Phase 2 is ready. I should imagine this would only happen on off plan properties. If you insist on not completing unti the LFO is given, you may have a long wait. We were in our place over 2 years before this subject was even brought up by the solicitors.
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07 May 2007 8:26 PM
barryjw
Parcela
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hi 'i am in the process of compleating the sale of a resale property with out a morgage . my solicitor imforms me that every thing is ok and legal except that the habitation licence has not yet being granted for the development at Senoria De Roda Los Alcazares Spain.all advice and help greatfully accepted . please.
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08 May 2007 12:56 PM
sharonw
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Hi tinasolera,
To literally answer your question, I have had quite a few clients complete without the LFO and by lenders that do not have a vested interest in the developments concerned. HOWEVER I still feel that unless ABSOLUTELY necessary, it is not advisable, e.g. if the timescale is a few months and not years then it's best to wait.
Regards
Sharon
sharon@tmasspain.com
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08 May 2007 1:21 PM
georgia
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Hi all,
U fortunately it is quite normal to complete on a property without the habitation licence.
Going by the book you should wait although most of the new build properties sold in the area are waiting for the licence.
This will only be issued when the development is completely finished to plans specified to the town hall originally.
At the risk of being flippant it is not a massive issue unless your solicitor forsee problems,if everything else is in place then it should be a formality.
Therfore all the people that have posted concerning unfinished developments this will be the hold up.
It also makes sure to a certain degree that the bulders stick to the original plans.
Regards
Georgia
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08 May 2007 4:09 PM
tinto.
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I pose this question, would you buy a property in the UK without a habitation licence? If the answer is no why would you do it in a foreign country!
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08 May 2007 4:17 PM
Pitby
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Tinto, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe many companies in the UK at the moment are promoting off-plan properties and, doubtless, there are numerous investors (especially those investing from overseas, I would think) who will probably have paid in staged payments by the tiime they get the keys! I've seen these properties marketed here in the Middle East.
I believe there are many investors worldwide - a large percentage of which from the UK - who have invested in property in Dubai off-plan and, BELIEVE ME, I've seen how these properties are built!!! And, mostly, they don't have any sort of guarantees on delivery!!
Bearing in mind different legal requirements, building regulations, building "customs" between country to country, different procedures happen.
So, I guess, the answer would be yes from a large percentage of people!
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08 May 2007 4:23 PM
jules1
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Hi Tinto,
We don't have habitation licenses in UK, just the deeds and NBHC surely. If your mortgage provider is prepared to lend the money, then they surely must feel there is no problem. It would not be so bad if you were told it will be in X months, but in Spain this is just not possible!
Julia
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08 May 2007 4:26 PM
tinto.
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My Question was "would YOU buy a property and if not.
I am not saying it does not happen but if you would not do it at home why do it elsewhere.
This message was last edited by tinto. on 5/8/2007.
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08 May 2007 4:38 PM
Pitby
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Tinto, people find themselves in different circumstances all the time and have to make a call that suits them.
Personally, we had the LFO, but if it came to the crunch and we had to complete without the LFO or face lengthy delays, possibly lose our deposit monies, maybe not have any legal recourse (that we felt secure with), then perhaps we WOULD have completed without the LFO. Others may not.
I don't know what your personal situation is, but at the end of the day people can be given the information and advice and make their own judgment. Forums like this help to gather all the info and advice together and they can make their own minds up. Simple, really!
We're all adults, capable of making informed decisions. As I've said before, just make sure you're well equipped with full info, good legal advice and common sense!! We all have to make choices that suit our own circumstances.
Fact of life! Can't really compare the UK to Spain, and can't really use that comparison anywhere else either. We're talking Spain on this forum.
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08 May 2007 7:44 PM
Roberto
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Quote Georgia: "....it is not a massive issue unless your solicitor forsees problems, if everything else is in place then it should be a formality."
I think most people who went through the process up to a year or so (?) ago would agree with this statement, and others, such as "We're talking Spain on this forum." (thanks for that timely reminder, Pitby!). However, with all the scandal and corruption cases coming to light in Marbella and other areas, there's a whole new climate of fear being generated in the market - understandably. I completed three years ago on a property in the centre of Torremolinos (no doubt about legality of building on the plot as previously residential) without the LFO, and after a couple of minor snags were sorted out the licence was duly issued - no worries. Not so sure I'd take the chance again now, but as Pitby has said, "make sure you're well equipped with full info, good legal advice and common sense!! We all have to make choices that suit our own circumstances."
Couldn't have (and didn't!) put it better myself.
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08 May 2007 8:01 PM
jules1
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Thanks everyone for your opinions, they are appreciated. Keep them coming!!!
Thanks Steve for sending the builders details I will try and contact them tomorrow.
Julia
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08 May 2007 8:09 PM
Karensun
Villa
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We completed without the Habitation license some 4 years ago...and all the other apartments must have done the same...184 in all....cos my husband ( Presidente) recieved a box full of them..184..plus the Ibadrola and aguaguest contracts. We actually still have some of these after all this time, despite trying to hand them all over, difficult cos they have personal details on.
Also ref. initial post. We used Domus ( Sylvia Hann) and she was wonderful. BBVA give mortgages without the License and probablt other banks do too. This is probably the way of Spain.
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08 May 2007 8:10 PM
bobaol
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The problem tends to arise with a new off plan urbanisation. In many cases, only a certain amount of houses are released for completion whilst work continues on other properties, often in the same street. The builders arrange for the LFO inspection en bloc. So if you're one of the first to get your property released, you may pat yourself on the back for being able to move in on time whilst others have to wait for completion. But you may find you don't get your LFO until the others are completed (I guess it's easier for the inspectors to do a whole street in one go rather than a couple, come back in a month a two, do a few more and then come back at the end). Plus, the inspectors may not be able to issue the LFO until all the pipes, cables and other things are connected to the entire area. Again, you have to make the decision on delaying your move (and, as already mentioned, we would have had to wait 2 years) or move in and take the builders word that it will happen "eventually". In our case, there were already half a dozen families in situ and 3 of those were living there permanently, all without LFOs. If everything else is in place, I would guess the LFO is only a minor part of the process. On resale properties, I suppose it would be different and I would insist on that before completion. And, I might be being naive here, but can an LFO be issued whilst the property is on builders' supply for water and electricity? If it can, whose to say these will be acceptable for putting on mains when ready? And, if not, there are a hell of a lot of people living on urbanisations in Torrevieja who have been on builders' supply for 4 years plus .
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