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15 Nov 2007 12:00 AM by davmunster Star rating in Carvajal\Belfast. 843 forum posts Send private message

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The following is copied (with his permission) from a private e-mail sent by Max to me early this evening.

We just had a shocking experience. We met with Hernan (the President) and Irma (Administrator) and discussed some of the issues which are important for the English community. I will tell you about the results when I have calmed down a bit. 

There was a notice on all our doors stating that there will be no water for three days (20-22 nov) because the administrator had not paid for the necessary fees. Very accusative so they came straight away to rectify this. The reality is that the whole area (Fuengirola, Mijas and Benalmadena) will be on very low pressures because of some problem within the water company. There is a reservoir which can keep us going for a short term and to use that we need a contract. The promoter never informed us about the contract, never notified us so the administrator got all the faxes yesterday afternoon. They state on the notice that they mentioned it on the meeting at the 8th but that’s not true.  

The administration office is trying to solve it now before the 20th but they are not sure they will make it. The reservoir would anyway not be big enough to cover for three days. 

We also had a look at a cable running from block 4 to a building in phase 2 where the other daughter of Don Juan already lives. Irma and Maximo (Administrator) were already aware of it so they took a picture and called the police. Juan (the foremen) saw me standing next to Irma when she took the photograph. He called victor (the nephew), Victor called the old guy himself so when the police arrived they were forming a defense line for the offending cable. Hernan and Irma had wandered off inspecting the illegal dishes so Maximo was alone. He needed my assistance as he is just the administrator and can’t make formal complaints. Imagine me, standing there with five very angry guys, two policeman and Maximo who looked like he just came out of a grave.  

Luckily I got Hernan and Irma in time because Maximo was loosing the battle. Irma was fierce and won the discussion. Hernan gave his details to the police etc. 

Well the end of a long discussion (Don juan stating that these were all his building and so on) was that they had to pull the plug. Then Maria Carmen (the other daughter) came running out of her apartment angry that she lost her electricity. The defeated family and their employees walked up the path. Then the  X5 came screaming round the corner. Nuria jumped out. She saw only me on the path (the rest was around the corner) so she started screaming at me. With the help of Saskia, the gardeners and a neighbour it became clear that;

a)     she wanted to kill me

b)    she already prepared a plan and it involved my little daughter. 

Neighbours got the police to me, Nuria had to be held back by her father and sister but kept on yelling. At the end the police had a discussion with them and the whole family drove away with screaming tyres.  

We (Sas and I) were really shocked and scared because of the threats made to Isa. Hernan, Irma and Maximo insisted that we had to go to the police head quarters for a formal complaint. As it’s not our native language that seemed difficult. In the end we managed to get the National Police involved. They have taken our statements, names, names of witnesses and people threatening by telephone and will send a copy to the National Police office in Fuengirola. Saskia is just on her way to sign that.  

According to them this is again a criminal case and they will hear Nuria and the witnesses and go to court if true. Our report will be connected to the theft of electricity which Hernan has to declare today.  

I guess you can understand I didn’t realize what I was up to when I volunteered for the vice-presidency!

 



_______________________

David




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16 Nov 2007 12:31 AM by RG Star rating. 299 forum posts Send private message

Shocking! I had to read that twice!! Let's hope the guilty get dealt with firmly and properly by the law!


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16 Nov 2007 9:48 AM by Sonia El Star rating in Wales / Carvajal, F.... 212 forum posts Send private message

 

OH MY G**

This is very worrying.  Do any of you read the general noticeboards?  There is one that tells of intimidation and bribery in Spain as being accepted and they're not 20 years old stories. Only hope the police are better at carrying through complaints than the ones we currently have in UK. Apologies to any serving officers who are neighbours but as a member of the general public the service we get is pants.

Max - do we need to club together to buy you a bullet proof vest? We all certainly owe you a large drink.




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17 Nov 2007 12:05 AM by Rene35 Star rating in Holland. 87 forum posts Send private message

Dear all,

It doesn't surprise me that the situation has escalated. I was present at last meeting and saw the unprofessional way of communication from the developpers side.

Especially Noeria was very unprofessional and I wonder if her dad knows that she is breaking down his business for the future if she is continuing this way.

Anyone who wants to buy from arrohabitatge will searh at google first before they buy, check what you will find about them!

Well I have checked it and if I was a new customer and read this, for sure I would consider to go another developper (and this is just the beginning!!).

Don't they understand that in this world you can't achieve anything with shouting and playing dominant tricks to customers?

It is very sad that this happens and it takes also our holiday and relaxed feelings away.

I wonder how long it takes when real accidents are going to happen.

To all of you and especially the developper stay calm and be professional!!!!

Best regards,

René

 

 

 

 



_______________________
Best Regards, René


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17 Nov 2007 10:01 AM by michelle17 Star rating. 52 forum posts Send private message

Hi All,

It will be good for you when more of us are resident there. In the meantime all Pete and I can offer is moral support, I wish it could be more. I think it has been a surprise for the developer to come across such well informed residents, that they have not been able to ride rough shod over everyone. It's incredible that Max, his family and Hernan have found themselves involved in a court case! How wonderful though that they are prepared to stand up to these people.

I hope that the problems there at the moment do not spoil your enjoyment of your new home for too long.

Interesting about the water issue. We only completed on Thursday and received a copy of the notification of the interruption of the water supply. It says that the interruption is due to the connextion of a new main water pipe and it affects the East side of Marbella, Mijas, Fuengirola and Benalmadena! Not, it would seem, because we haven't paid fees. But why let the truth get in the way of intimidating your clients!

Best wishes to you all

Michelle

 

 




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17 Nov 2007 1:59 PM by max! Star rating in Fuengirola. 944 forum posts Send private message

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Thanks to the enormous amounts of e-mails, PM's, phonecalls etc we feel a lot better now. Knowing that we have your support and sympathy really helps us. It still hurts our business because understandably there are people who are intimidated by the promoter and cancel orders, but we will recover from that.
On a personal level we feel better about it now that our lawyer and the police are aware of the situation. It's hard to judge in another country if people just bark or will actually bite, but there is a lot of staff around (gardeners, maintenance etc) and Spanish neighbours who all know me very well and like me a lot. They will step forward if needs be. They promised and we know by now from experience that the Spanish won't look the other way like the tendency nowadays is in the Netherlands. We still keep a close watch at our daughter but so do all these people so I don't think she will actually be harmed.
What happens when Nuria gets a visit from the national police (because we made the formal accusation and they took it very seriously) I don't know. If I hear the BMW X5 comingh up I will make sure I'm safely behind a solid object.



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17 Nov 2007 4:49 PM by srs Star rating. 136 forum posts Send private message

17 Nov 2007 4:54 PM by srs Star rating. 136 forum posts Send private message

 

Sorry about the last post,(Gremlins in the system)

Max,

The treatment that you are receiving is horrendous.  It should not be allowed to happen and as a community we all should ensure that this is stopped immediately.  The way I see it is that the developer is being unreasonable in all respects (I know this only too well by the way my own purchase was conducted).

From the outside looking in it seems that the developer may now have his back to the wall if the police are involved and the time may have come to cool things off a little and allow the developer an opportunity to make a dignified climb down before things get really out of hand.

There may be little chance of this but who knows what he is now thinking.  When the development is finished everyone needs to live together in harmony and maybe the developer needs to start acting neighbourly as from NOW.  One thing is for certain, if this is not halted then things will get worse and you and the others do not need all this aggravation.

You have all done a magnificent job so far and I am sure that there are many frustrated people like myself who feel helpless watching from a distance.  I am all for offering an olive branch to the developer via a lawyer as a last gesture.  This will be seen in a good light if he refuses and matters go to court.

If he digs in his heels then I for one will back the community, which is all of us, and yourself to the hilt and we should take him on with whatever means necessary.  This could get costly but we should be prepared to fund actions in the short term for long term results.

Maybe others will disagree with the above but it is only my opinion.  One thing for sure is that I will continue to use your services as recent events have only served to convince me that you are a trustworthy and reliable person.  You have my FULL backing.  Let me know if there is anything I can do.

Regards

SRS




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17 Nov 2007 5:18 PM by rig Star rating in Scotland. 8 forum posts Send private message

Max

I was very concerned to read that his has happened on the development.  We can only thank you very much for all that you have been doing to help the some running of the process of buying and moving in for many of us.   Without the help of your family and business life would have been very difficult for many of us.  I can only repeat what I have said before - we are very pleased and impressed with the service we have had from yourself and the company you are trying hard to establish and we will certainly be using your services again in the future.

When we are not living full time in Spain it is very hard to make sure that all is well but I have total faith in both yourself and your wife and I am sorry that people have been making life very difficult for you.  This last episode shows us that we need to show our support and I do think that we have the right person as our vice president .

Regards

 



_______________________
Irene & Gordon


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18 Nov 2007 4:24 PM by gericom99 Star rating in Offaly, Ireland / Ca.... 270 forum posts Send private message

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I was appalled and horrified when I read of the treatment Max was subjected to at the hands of the developer and his family.  This is simply irresponsible and unacceptable behaviour and the sooner the developer recognises and accepts that Max, Hernan and our administrator have our full support and have a legitimate right to question and look after matters relating to the community on our behalf the better.  They all deserve the greatest of thanks for their efforts in trying to ensure we have a development and community to be proud of.

Regards all


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21 Nov 2007 3:37 PM by max! Star rating in Fuengirola. 944 forum posts Send private message

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Hi All,
I need your help. There has been an e-mail from Arrohabitatge to most of your lawyers.
 
The text is similar to this one I got from one of you. The date is end of october.
-----------
"Please find below a translation of the communication we have received today from the developers at Residencial Don Juan I.
 
 
“… the repairs of the snagging list will be carried out by the developers’ company. Nevertheless, the repairs will not be carried out in those properties whom clients have left the keys of their properties to Mr **** (my real name which I don't want on the internet ***  (owner of the property located in block 2, Semi-basement A). Mr. *** is currently opening the properties to inspect them with the site manager.
 
The developers’ company will not be responsible to make the repair works because Mr *** is coming into the properties and make some damages in order to be able to claim to the client who leaves the keys with him the amount he thinks appropriate.
 
Therefore, the developers’ company makes clear that if Mr *** is in charge of showing and opening any property of the Residencial Don Juan, to check the snags of it, the developer’ company will not make any repairs.
  
We understand that some clients have signed the Title Deeds of their property through their lawyers in Spain. To that end, we kindly ask you to leave the keys at your lawyers’ office in order for the developers’ company to contact them for opening the properties.”.
---------------
 
Some of the lawyers passed this on their clients without any comments which I find incredible and others just ignored it. The allegations are of course nonsense and my lawyer has already stated that Arrohabitatge can't do this because it's libel. Also they can't refuse snagging reports done by persons they don't like. They are always valid snagging reports.
 
My question is:
can one of you enquire at his lawyer if this email was sent to them and if so if they can send you the original Spanish e-mail with the e-mail address and the complete Spanish text. If you can then send it to me I can use it in my defense. I will leave your name out so you won't bear any responsibility. It would be really very helpfull.
 
Next question:
Some of you have seen me 'damaging' the skirting while I was not even doing the snagging as you did it yourself. I just showed that you missed that snag. Could you be so kind to e-mail that to me as a statement that the skirting was indeed loose and not damaged on purpose by me. If independent of me you found loose skirting and reported that snag I would also like to hear that. Use the PM system or e-mail me.
 
Thanks in advance,
Max



This message was last edited by max! on 11/21/2007.


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21 Nov 2007 9:05 PM by rosegreen Star rating. 52 forum posts Send private message

Max,

Have you seen the article Publicity- Part of the Contract on this site today.  It quotes legal sources and court judgements that say it does not have to be in the written contract to be part of the contract.  If you have a moments peace have a look at it it might be of help in the present situation re gated complex.   If everyone that was told the complex was to be gated put in writin throught solicitors it might be useful.

Thinking of you and your family.  Keep up the spirits and the good work.

Regards,

Monica and Seamus




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22 Nov 2007 1:09 PM by max! Star rating in Fuengirola. 944 forum posts Send private message

max!´s avatar
Hi Monica and Seamus,
 
Nice to hear from you again. Yes I have read that excellent article. I contacted Maria (the author) a few days ago with a request for the Spanish version as of course this is more precise. Things get lost in translation. I already received it from her and we had some discussions about it. She is part of a new generation of lawyers who are very interested in consumer protection laws and she is doing an excellent job on EOS. She is completely different from what I now call 'real estate lawyers' which are often working on behalf of the promotor or the estate agent while you're paying them.
 
Luckily I have an excellent and very experiended (new) lawyer myself so I don't need her services. My lawyer is part of the working group of the 'Colegio del Abogados' (the professional organisation of lawyers) for consumer rights!
 
His main experience is in going to court for problems with promoters so I hired him for my issues.
 
He ensured me that:
 
a) refusing snagging lists is impossible
 
b) my formal complaint against Nuria death threats against me and my daughter will be taken serious by the police
 
c) the allegations at the last meeting against me (again by Nuria) are a godsend because they are now in the official minutes. This an excellent basis to go to court and force Arrohabitatge to rectify and fine them. Unfortunately he doesn't think I will get financial compensation for the damages because this would be a criminal offence and not a civil case. He will go to court for me (at my expense unfortunately :( )
 
d) that snags in Spain will have to be fixed. If Arrohabitatge doesn't fix my personal snags I'm allowed to make repairs myself and send them the bill or force them by court order to have them fixed by the promotor.
 
e) some personal stuff about paying plusvalia and signing a purchase contract which states that I declare that the delay was not their fault (your lawyers all signed this on your behalf!) so that I lost my grounds to ask for compensation we discussed as well. He estimates I have a 60% chance of winning it so I will go for it. If I loose I will have lost even more money but sometimes justice is more important than money.
 
Hope all this information helps.
 
Max



This message was last edited by max! on 11/22/2007.


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22 Nov 2007 1:28 PM by RG Star rating. 299 forum posts Send private message

Hi Max Regarding point 'e' perhaps it would be beneficial to bring 'class action' against the promoter for this. i.e. if a group of us sue the promoters for the plus valia and compensation for delays, would your lawyer be prepared to take on group action. This would work out cost effective as a bunch of us would be sharing the costs. Dependent on costs I for one will be interested.


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22 Nov 2007 5:10 PM by solgre Star rating in Denmark. 79 forum posts Send private message

We are a Danish family and have been reading posts on EOS for several months. We think that Max has work unbelievably hard to help all members with everything we have asked for. We have chosen him as vice-president and he is still going strong even if he has got all the bad luck that promoter is able to pass to him. We had the call from our lawyer stating that promoter would not accept any snagging done by a certain company. They did not want to tell any names – our lawyer has spent 2 weeks getting a name. They just called and confirmed that it was Max. At the same time they recommended another company to do snagging. But we thought. NO WAY – They are not going to dictate to us what to do. But our “real estate lawyer” said that promoter might have a quite good case and told us that the company recommended by promoter was OK!!! Now we have asked other lawyers about this issue they  said that promoter is wrong.
 
We want to support Max in his efforts towards promoter but it is difficult when we are in Denmark. The best way we can figure out is NOT to do what promoter wants. A good lawyer has promised to help in case of problems with Max doing our snagging list. Previously this lawyer won cases against awkward promoters like ours. So everyone (also the silent ones, as we used to be) if you do not want to snag your own apartment – give the job to Max. At the same time we can show our promoter that fighting Max and threats against both him and his daughter means that promoter will fight a lot more people than he ever thought of.
 
By now, we think that we owe Max more than a large beer (he will just get a hangover) The job as vice-president is unpaid and till now we suppose that being vice-president has put costs to him both economic and physical. His company has got a dishonest reputation, “sky-people” yelling after the whole family, people knocking at his door late in the evening, Nuria wanting to kill both him and his daughter. Many people would have given up by now. But Max is still working hard.
 
We paid our community fee by e-banking from our Spanish bank – quite easy. Everybody remember to pay your fee so Nuria will not be able to challenge your proxies at the next meeting.
 
We are really looking forward to meet a lot of neighbours. We hope Nuria soon will calm down, realizing she can not always have the last word. If any of you would like to ask questions about lawyers or snagging feel free to PM us. The new lawyer is the same as Max is referring to and he
 has Swedish, Danish and good English speaking staff – the language will not cause any problems.
 
 



This message was last edited by solgre on 11/22/2007.


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26 Nov 2007 9:14 AM by Neil Plaister Star rating. 4 forum posts Send private message

Hi RG,

Regarding your post,

"Hi Max Regarding point 'e' perhaps it would be beneficial to bring 'class action' against the promoter for this. i.e. if a group of us sue the promoters for the plus valia and compensation for delays, would your lawyer be prepared to take on group action. This would work out cost effective as a bunch of us would be sharing the costs. Dependent on costs I for one will be interested"

I would be intrested as well!

Kind Regards

Neil Plaister




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26 Nov 2007 3:00 PM by max! Star rating in Fuengirola. 944 forum posts Send private message

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I will certainly discuss this with Carlos (my lawyer but you guessed that already) the possibility of addding people. The trouble is that some of you don't even have their own contracts. Carlos needs to see the contracts (not only the escritura but the actual contract (you will have 'es copia simple'): are the wordings identical, are your claims comparable (f.i. I took the builders mortgage so I didn't have to pay for not having it!) etc
Let me know by PM or preferably e-mail about your personal situation.  I would be in favour of bundling cases but as I discovered when I tried to do the group buy for snagging organizing it can be quite time consuming with people withdrawing etc. So please be as clear as possible and provide me with as much detailed info you have if you want to particpate.
Maybe it turns out that it's more efficient to have different cases: one about the mortgage cancellation, about the plusvalia, about the costs of the delay and a case about recouping the costs to fix our own snaggings (as they still only fix simple things, but don't repolish your floor or paint your wall). The Spanish are interested in the snaggings thing as well.  

uu


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