The Truth about Mileniun

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19 Apr 2012 12:11 by ltan Star rating in Condado de Alhama. 12 forum posts Send private message

ltan´s avatar

 

This has been written by Lesley Tann, wife of Phil Tann - Level 1 President of Condado Owners, he didn’t write it as he is extremely busy.

Yet again I have been talking to an owner on Condado who have been telling me how wonderful Mileniun are and what a wonderful job they are doing. How wrong can they be and it is about time somebody started to shout it from the roof tops and start informing owners of their incompetence. Yes they have provided us with cheaper insurance, fiestas and they are helpful when problems arise with apartments but they have their faults and these should be known.

 

Where shall I start? It is always difficult to start complaining about something that has been brewing for ages. Little niggly things that taken separately mean nothing but when added together amount to trouble. Since Phil has taken over as President Level 1 they have to report to him fully, they can no longer ignore him or his emails as they did when he was a level 2 president so a full pattern of their incompetence is beginning to show.

 

Part of Mileniun remit is to collect three quotes to present to the presidents at the renewal of all services such as gardeners, cleaners, security and insurance. This has never happened. They renew without consulting the presidents at a price they have agreed. Not a problem you may think since surely they have the communities’ interests at heart but the Presidents are your voted representatives and Mileniun are the employees. How often does an employee negotiate deals and not inform management? Since taking over as President Phil has managed to get a list of renewal dates and is insisting on 3 quotes. Interestingly enough the next renewal date is the 14th May for the insurance. As we know Mileniun are insurance agents for Axa so this renewal is probably important to them as presumably they receive a commission for insurance sold. On the 21st February Phil asked for the 3 quotes to be organised and still he waits – today as I write this it’s the 14th April, nearly 2 months later. What is the problem, is it so difficult, why the wait? I have my thoughts as do many of the Presidents but I am trying to inform you of the facts not give my opinion.

 

Last year Phil was asked to sign a renewal of the Lawyers contract. It was in Spanish. Phil was concerned about signing the document but it needed to be signed as the renewal was due. Phil asked Mileniun if a get out clause was included and they assured him there was. Later he learned that there was no get out clause and they had lied. Lesson learnt. Phil will no longer sign a document in Spanish or indeed trust Mileniun again, hence the push for quotes over the insurance and other services.

 

Now we come to the incident that has really got us everybody going and the thing that has tipped the balance for Phil away from Millennium’s favour. Irrigation. Up to now he has tried to give them the benefit of the doubt, work with them but unfortunately they have annoyed him and he has lost patience. Many of the Spanish presidents wanted them sacked last year.

 

Irrigation. Do you as residents of Condado know we do not have an irrigation system? When did your president know? Last Thursday (12th April) when he questioned Mileniun and asked them why the new trees had not been watered? When did Mileniun know? Well now that’s a tricky one. They have given Phil several dates but none of them seem to make sense. So let me fill you in with a few facts.

 

Six weeks ago, in the draft budget for next year there appeared an additional cost for 70,000 euros to fill the lake up on the Isla. The Level 2 presidents all rejected this as nobody from Naranjos or the Jardins is allowed to go over to the Isla so why should so many pay for something they will never see. Mileniun was told not to fill the lake up. They never gave a reason why the lake should be filled other than the president and the owners of the Isla wanted it filled.

There has been a building under construction for a couple of months now, beside the lake by the Isla. For a month now Phil has asked what this building is for, the president of the Isla has been asking. Mileniun said they didn’t know and Phil asked them to find out but nothing was forth coming.

 

On Wednesday the 4th April, whilst on holiday Phil received an email from Mileniun asking for permission to fill the lake to use for irrigation. He told them no – as all the Level 2 presidents had voted against it but remained ignorant of the fact we had no irrigation system until the regular meeting on Thursday 12th also attended by Mike Parsons (level 2 President). It turns out that the banks, IRM consortium who took over Polaris’s debts, own the land that our irrigation reservoirs are situated on and are now unavailable for Condado Community use. As an alternative the council are going to give us the lake around the Isla, as they currently own it, to use as an irrigation system. A lake that has slowly emptied over the last 2 – 3 years, why well I’m dealing with facts here so I need to set aside my thoughts. It was also revealed that the mystery building by the lake is housing a pumping system for the new irrigation system – Well how convenient is that. IRM and the Council have been discussing this and arranging things and the Presidents are expected to believe Mileniun knew nothing about it. When questioned they changed their story several times to the point they have come across as liars and the level 2 presidents do not believe them. The monthly accounts, received this week show no water was purchased in March. We purchased water as normal January and February – but not March – Why?

 

We pay Mileniun over 230,000 euros a year – it’s a lot of money for what they do and at the moment Phil and several level 2 presidents are discussing the irrigation system with the Mayor and town council – unpaid, voluntarily for the good of the community. Since taking over as level 1 president Phil has crisis managed, moving from one problem to another most of Mileniun’s making. Mileniun are a private company who work to line their own pockets, their loyalty has come into question many times and it seems abundantly clear to the level 2 presidents they do not always work in the interests of the community.

 

This is not written to spread dome and gloom only to inform owners of the problems that the presidents have. As a community we are growing and will continue to do so, the presidents will continue to work to this end. If you want to know more about the workings of the community contact your level 3 president – they are there to represent you. Soon hopefully there will be a web-site where more information will be posted to keep owners informed but it takes time and Phil is pushed at the moment with issues of the community.

 



_______________________
Lesley www.NaranjosUno.com


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19 Apr 2012 14:14 by chaddyowl Star rating in Manchester. 993 forum posts Send private message

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Hmmm!!

Very informative and interesting post.

My job says trust no one until proven and this proves it!!




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19 Apr 2012 16:01 by BFR Star rating. 215 forum posts Send private message

Surely we can source a company that works for us and not against us.

Keep up the good work guys and knocking those barriers down.

230k per year to be lied to. Surely that is breach of contract.




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19 Apr 2012 16:01 by BFR Star rating. 215 forum posts Send private message

Surely we can source a company that works for us and not against us.

Keep up the good work guys and knocking those barriers down.

230k per year to be lied to. Surely that is breach of contract.




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19 Apr 2012 16:49 by deano9 Star rating. 4 forum posts Send private message

Not being sure of the structure between millenium and the presidents

Who authorises payment and who signs the cheques

this should surely be done under the supervision of the presidents and on their authority

can someone clarify who holds the purse strings

alan




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19 Apr 2012 18:16 by tubs56 Star rating. 16 forum posts Send private message

The level 1&2 Presidents sign the cheques but that’s not the issue in relation to contract.

Firstly some of the contracts were put in place by Polaris for up to 5 years, clearly this was done in their own interest. Some of these have been re-negotiated by your President thankfully.

The bigger problem is a number of the contracts have automatic renewal clauses, in that if we don’t give notice by a given date that a contract wasn’t to be renewed it would automatically renew and this new contract would be binding.

The problem has been finding out the renewal dates and cut of points so we can ask new providers to tender and inform existing providers contracts are not to be renewed without them re-tendering.

Your presidents are in a continual battle with the administrator to obtain information, often your president are given information to vote with no time for debate or to gather information to find a better option.

The presidents have on lots of occasions demanded the administrator gives information to the presidents but if it suits them they just ignore the request.

The whole thing is now coming to a head and your presidents can’t go on working in this way.

A number of the Spanish presidents wanted to sack the administrator but there was an issue of legality and most of your non Spanish presidents have been concerned about the detrimental effect this could have on our community, those of us that remember the change over the last administrator will recall how bad it was.

The other issue is this administrator has been very good at convincing the owners that all the good things that have happened in the community have been purely down to them. Now let’s be clear this administrator has done some very good thing for our community but if they are not prepared to work hand in hand with your presidents who you vote in to represent you and are the management of the community then it becomes impossible to govern.

Your presidents know that to most people and even some president the administrator is very popular and they are concerned that moving to change the administration may be very damaging if they can’t take the owners support with them. To that end I can ashore you, your president will only be acting in the best interest of the community and even now would rather have the existing administration agree to work openly and cooperatively with them, but I fear it’s too late for that.

This information has started appearing on this forum and others as this is the only way your information can be issued without it being vetted by the administrator.

I know Spain hasn’t been a democracy that long but at times it feels like our community is being run like a dictatorship by the administrator and one way or another something has to change.

 




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19 Apr 2012 20:50 by BFR Star rating. 215 forum posts Send private message

 if they can't be bothered to be open and honest lets pay another company 230K per annum who will.

 

 


This message was last edited by BFR on 19/04/2012.


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19 Apr 2012 21:07 by Billbo Star rating in Hartlepool & Jardine.... 626 forum posts Send private message

Thank's for that very enlightening but disturbing information Lesley. To the majority of us who are remote to Condado, Mileniun seemed light years ahead of the last mob as far as cascading of information is concerned but obviously 'quantity not quality' seeems to have been the watch word here. Keep bombarding us with weekly reports of which garden has had ten weeds removed 'on Tuesday' and hedges trimmed' on Wednesday' but keep us totally in the dark about the more important critical issues as discussed in your post.

If anyone ever needed to be convinced that it was those at the 'coal face' i.e. the presidents (particularly those that live on Condado full time) who would be in the best position to make decisions on our behalf, then here is the evidence. Even someone as thorough and meticulous as Phil has been fobbed off and mislead by these people. Is this something that is inherent in the Spanish make up or what ??? Why do these people have no  integrity.

Phil, Lesley,

We will be over for a week's visit in early May, but if there is any small way I can help you out just let me know.

Regards,


 


This message was last edited by Billbo on 19/04/2012.

_______________________

Will

( & Jackie if it's not controversial !! ).



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19 Apr 2012 21:39 by ptan Star rating in Los Naranjos Jardine.... 1697 forum posts Send private message

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 Hi Will,

In reality Mileniun are lights years ahead of the last mob, no questions, but no one's perfect.  From the decussions I have had with other resorts most administrators are the same in terms of communications the common thing seems to be not to tell anyone until after you have done it, indeed this is common thing Spain in general.   We have been working with ML for two years and generally have a good relationship, the problem could be me in excepting them to work in the same way as a UK company.  In the UK if I asked a employee to do a task I would expect it to be simply done and not have to chase them weekly.  

The level 2 presidents are in constant communications, something that would of been unheard of only a year or so ago, and we all work together.   We are making progress and the resort is getting better all the time but like any resort we have financial constrants so cannot make all the improvements that many people would like,  there is a constant juggle between improving things and keeping costs down.

I seem to spend most of my time doing crisis management, this weeks issue is irrigation, it's been off since late Feb early March yet we were not informed until last week.  Someone somewhere knew the work that was being done was not carried out under the cover of darkness and many have been asking about the new building behind la Isla.    Following meetings today we hope to have it sorted early next week but this is a situation that should never of occured.  

Polaris, who currenty own the water company (CREA ), didn't do this work for the love of it.  Someone will be making a saving.  IRM who own the land that the old water pools are on will save by not having to maintain them.  The town hall have nicely declared the lake a public area and so the urban entity ( when formed ) will have to maintain it, saving them money.  The only people that is will cost more is the community.    If we had know what the plans were months ago when work started we could of started the discussions we are having now then and saved the community all the hassle.  Ho Hum. 



_______________________

 

Phil

Email: phil@naranjosuno.com

Web: www.naranjosuno.com

 

 

 



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19 Apr 2012 23:48 by markbentley Star rating in Halifax, West Yorksh.... 329 forum posts Send private message

 

Do you anticipate the lake being filled by early summer Phil?



_______________________
  Mark Bentley


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20 Apr 2012 08:13 by mgk Star rating in Penthouse 2. 242 forum posts Send private message

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 This almost sounds like Polaris all over again, Business model --- tell the customer what he wants to hear and then only if they ask, feed them a diet of "pork pies" only this tme we are the employers

 


This message was last edited by mgk on 20/04/2012.

_______________________

www.condadoelectricalservices.com        condadoes@live.co.uk

tel.605 832  795



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20 Apr 2012 09:25 by TheQuietMan Star rating in UK and very occasion.... 535 forum posts Send private message

I find this all a very strange situation and I'm very glad we have Presidents who are keen and able to meet these challenges head on. Do these management companies have the opinion that once they have the role thats exactly what they do 'manage' and don't have to explain anything to anyone?

Why was the supply switched off- weren't we being charged for the use of it and if so what is the problem with that continuing?

How on earth did they think they could get away with building something without anyone asking what it was?

Who pays for the building of the pump station?

How come the Council owns the lake and it's now declared an urban entity- what was it before?

I'm reading that the Isla lake has had problems with rats so surely from a health pint of view ML have to be looking at ways of dealing with that.

I've editted as I see there's another thread which answered many other questions.

Meanwhile what happens to all the new trees that ML have had planted a heavan knows what cost- and did they know they wouldn't have the water for them (especially necessary to bed them in)

 


This message was last edited by TheQuietMan on 20/04/2012.

_______________________

Tony.



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20 Apr 2012 10:23 by angelbabe911 Star rating in JARDIN 13 . 492 forum posts Send private message

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While I can understand the issues going on between the Presidents, ML, IRM and the Council.  Everyone seems to be adament on slating ML for lack of 'Communication', however a lot of what goes on between the said parties is not getting filtered down by he Presidents who we voted to represent us, down to the people who pay the fees and who have put trust is the presidents to act on our behalf.

I have been resident on CDA since August 2008, I have not had 1 email off my Level 3 President informing me of any issue that is discussed, voted on or issues arising.  I also can safely say that there is a very large percentage of owners including non-residents that feel the same.

 

This works both ways, we can not be expected to make judgements on ML, when all we have had so far is one communication about the things the Presidents dont agree with.  The presidents are not regularly informing us of the positve things ML do, or anything else.  Regarding the trees, from what I have been told by various presidents, this was a request by them and not ML at the expense of the funds.

I am not getting involved in a war about who is right and who is wrong, but we as fee payers should be given as much information as possible ALL of the time not just when it suits the Presidents to get people onside, as that makes you just as bad as ML for lack of communication.

 

We vote for you to represent us, we pay our fees, so please accomodate us with regular information, so at least then we are all reading from the same page.

 

 

 



_______________________
Never regret the things you've done...Just the things you aint !! 




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20 Apr 2012 10:58 by angelbabe911 Star rating in JARDIN 13 . 492 forum posts Send private message

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Not sure if some of you are aware that there is a Permanant Residents email list that is used for communication for events, whats on etc... We all received Lesley Tann's posting above by this method of communication.  Some of us have replied to Lesley via this method on the email sent ( same as above ) so think it only fair that non-residents are kept up to date with some of the replies so far.

 

Lesley, while I can´t think of a more frustrating and un appreciated position to be in, as yours and Phil's....I have to say,

Do you really not see the connection between the water situation and the decision made by the presidents level 2 to take legal action against IRM, and Alhama council...or am I to believe that this situation is coincidence?

We (The Presidents) were warned by our community attorneys and our administrators that we should keep an open, amicable line of communication between the developers of the resort, the council and Condado. I have sat in meetings where Mileniun have spoken to us as presidents and explained that taking legal action against IRM was the wrong thing to do..Javier wrote on the board IRM=CREA=WATER.

The presidents of this community went against the advise of our attorneys and Mileniun. This situation is quiet obviously a consequence of our actions.
Would it have made a difference if we would have known it was a pump station...What are you accusing Mileniun of exactly? I understand there are some communication issues between Mileniun and Phil and I know that has been worked on, but their job is also to serve the community as a whole, and what the community thinks matters.

I think to resolve the problem... the war has to end with IRM and the council. We are being shown a little of their strength. Unless we have the winning hand I think it is time to come close to our admin and swallow some pride. According to our attorneys, even if we win the battle in court we loose in the real world.
So how do we win? Fire our administrator? It is okay being angry, it is okay being upset but at the end of the day decisions made by the presidents affect the whole community and decisions sometimes come with consequences. I believe this is a consequence of our actions.

Just my opinion, I don´t want to offend but I do want to make my opinion heard. xx

It is always best to have more than one side to the story.



Jill
www.condadodealhamaservices.com


Hi All,
 
Thanks for your comments Jill but I have to ask why you only respond the issue of the irrigation.
To me this is just the last of a long line of issues and my problem is not about the irrigation itself it is the fact that Mileniun (even when asked)
did not tell us what was happening.
Time and again we have asked question and either not been given the answer or been told something that is less than the truth.
On a personal level I like each and every person that works within the mileniun office however as administrators of our community I have to ask who is employing who?
They do not do the things that they are asked to do but when questioned say that they have, and they do not keep the presidents informed and up to date as they should.
What is this a consequence off I wonder.

Yours
Kevin Smith Catherine Emmett-Smith



Hi Cathy, good morning mate,

I refer only to the irrigation because this I know to be a consequence of the presidents actions and not a problem of communication with the administrator. IF it is time to tell the owners what is going on on Condado, they should have been told the whole story.

I don´t think anyone stops to realize that in Murcia..we are the largest and most unique resort to manage. We have several thousand homes, several thousand owners, several managers and a council. HUGE maintenance concerns a huge budget and projects some unique to us now..ALL of which have to be catered to in a timely manner.

Just a few weeks ago Phil told me that things were going well. The presidents were all talking, he got along with Augustine in Mileniun..things were good. The big meeting went well, he chaired it..no one shouted....and so on.
NOW we are in crisis management all the time!

I don´t want to be controversial, but this is a political campaign and one that is not telling the owners the whole story. It also appears to be some personal complaints...and frustrations, niggly things,,. Which you are going to have taking on the challenge of being Level 1 on a resort of this magnitude.

IF Phil fires Mileniun, who is going to take over? OR are we talking now about having a resort run by the presidents...? NONE of which are qualified or capable of doing so and who so far, despite their honesty and extreme efforts have managed to destroy the relationships that are essential for a successful and growing resort.

I think a lot of Phil, Lesley my neighbours and all the staff in Mileniun, but things don´t go from "good finally" to crisis management in a few short weeks.

There will NEVER be a perfect administrator, because personalities come into it. Not many things are in fact perfect in this world but right now WE should be repairing bridges now before it is too late. Not starting another war...within our own team..

I refer to the irrigation because it is the only real issue I see. If this problem is not solved the resort can be ruined within months. Phil as level 1 president is liable for the wrong decisions he makes on Condado with all his personal assets, which is why we have an English President level 1 and NOT a Spanish one. Polaris as level 1 had a lot of attorneys around them protecting their every move!

I said it to Phil then and I will say it again...A decision of that magnitude ( I talk about the decision to take IRM and the council to court) should have been taken to all the owners and NOT decided amongst 4 presidents in a private meeting at the cafe. We were told this was done to allow for more time...why once this time was awarded did we not then..take it to the owners?
I am a president, I run a forum but it would not be considered correct for me to come back from a president meeting and publish what went on?? Why? Why don´t the owners of Condado know what is affecting their investment here? Why don´t they know before big decisions are made? Presidents were supposed to be the voice of the community. NOT the opinion.

I was not told about the problems with the irrigation by my level 2 president! I heard about them from Rupert....I agree with Carol, the owners are not consulted enough on Condado, and you will find they want to be. Everyone has invested an enormous amount of their personal money into this resort and Mileniun works for each and every one of them, NOT just the presidents.

I don´t want this to turn into a slagging match. I don´t have anything else to say on here, happy to buy anyone of you a drink and discuss it but this is too political for me. x




Jill
www.condadodealhamaservices.com



_______________________
Never regret the things you've done...Just the things you aint !! 




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20 Apr 2012 11:02 by angelbabe911 Star rating in JARDIN 13 . 492 forum posts Send private message

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And this my response and reply :

 

Hi Lesley

Thank you for the email regarding ML.  I can see where your coming from about the issues mentioned, but have to think to myself that some of these issues are being contained and only discussed at the Presidents meetings, although I do try and keep updated by information from Phil, and various others, including ML I do feel that some of the information passed on to us can be at times very biased and manipulated.... in other words we are only told what others want us to believe.
I do know some of what has been advised not just by ML but also the legal team and at the end of the day 'We' as owners must be given the right to comment and have our say and opinions heard.  This is not happening !!
I have spoken to plenty of owners who have told that when it came to decisions, the question has been asked on certain issues, should we ask level 3 presidents to put it to the Owners and the answer from above was - Does an MP ask his constituants .... Well for what its worth ( which may not be much by past issues ) Yes we would like to be asked, ML may have to answer to Phil, but Phil in my opinion should answer to the people paying the Fees .... or am I wrong in this ..... I have kept very quiet about things for a long time and not got involved with the politics of the Communities, however I have now got to the point where my frustrations are getting the better of me.  I  feel that as an owner so long as I pay my fees I have no say whatsoever in decisions being made and they are NOT being discussed with the people who count.
I can understand yours and Phils predicament but at the end of the day no one forced his arm up his back to take the position, it takes a very brave person to take on the roll and I admire him for it, however, a position of this enormity also requires attributes of unbias, equality, non personal decision making and a strength of character to listen and be heard, not just by the other presidents.

We have rights to decide who runs our Community and to find out what is in our best interests, more information and openness to owners direct, from level 3's and 2's and at least let us have our say.  This has not happened.

I personally have a good connection with ML and not had a bad word spoken about them apart from what Presidents are telling us .... I do not want them gone, my personal opinion.  They have been doing a good job, people are happy and for me the good outweighs the bad, issues need to be discussed on a professional not personal level.

Carol Miller

 

Hi Carol,
 
I too have a very good relationship with Mileniun and I also attend most of the meetings.
Please be aware that the presidents are also asking for more openness and participation of owners in the matters that concern them. 
It is not the presidents that keep us all in the dark but information can not be passed on if it is not given in the first place. 
In most cases the information is given to the presidents at the last minute (often at the same time as they tell the community)
and they are then in a crisis management position.

Yours
Kevin Smith
Catherine Emmett-Smith  Spanish



_______________________
Never regret the things you've done...Just the things you aint !! 




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20 Apr 2012 17:23 by angelbabe911 Star rating in JARDIN 13 . 492 forum posts Send private message

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I have read replies on the Perm Residents list through out the day and as I have already stated.  I totally agree that these issues need to be resolved and information should not be witheld by either party, there has been a total cock up along the line.....

But I have to say, the way this has been handled and communicated is totally unethical, unprofessional and ask the question, why was this communicated by an individual ( nothing personal intended ) who is not a President ??  If you want to have a go at ML and accuse them of under handedness, is this not sinking to their level ??  If this communication was to inform owners on a professional level of these issues there are more appropriate and ethical ways.

 

Why was it only posted on here and the residents list ??..... has it been sent to all the Spanish and other non - UK owners and has it also been posted on the Presidents forum,  If not then only a percentage of people, mainly UK owners have been fed this information..... Why ????

 

 

 



_______________________
Never regret the things you've done...Just the things you aint !! 




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20 Apr 2012 17:40 by TheQuietMan Star rating in UK and very occasion.... 535 forum posts Send private message

This saga continues to be interesting and worrying- please remind me why we have taken IRM and the Council to Court?

When someone posts that info I may immediately remember but if I don't does that mean we were not told?I read forums avidly but can't remember this topic coming up- obviously I may be having a senior moment. Hopefully someone will put me straight.

 

In the light of the posts below I would say it's often the case that group (whoever they may be in any arrangement) are only told things on a 'need to know basis' Someone always decides that everyone doesn't need to know everything.

 


This message was last edited by TheQuietMan on 20/04/2012.

_______________________

Tony.



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20 Apr 2012 17:46 by angelbabe911 Star rating in JARDIN 13 . 492 forum posts Send private message

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Good question..... How many people knew we had taken them to court..... ????



_______________________
Never regret the things you've done...Just the things you aint !! 




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20 Apr 2012 18:44 by duffiest Star rating. 27 forum posts Send private message

As an owner since 2008 I find this incredible. I too am an avid reader of all the forums and this is the first I have heard of court action, what is the issue what is the cost and more importantly who pays???

As for the water situation if it isn't put back on soon this resort will die


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20 Apr 2012 22:53 by Youngers Star rating. 95 forum posts Send private message

I think we are trying to get the coefficients for the unbuilt plots increased which would mean IRM having to pay a large chunk of the running costs hence reducing the fees we all pay.  Sounds good, assuming theres anything left to service at the end other than a desert!




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Jack Nicklaus Signature Golf Course (CDA) - 0 posts
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58 posts were found:


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