El Pinet

Some clarification - non-residents pay €60 per month. This includes water and electric. Residents pay an additional €30. Its a legally binding way to get non-payers to pay. In money terms, nothing has changed. Don't shoot ! I'm only the messenger !!

Bill

Seams  the  permanent residents have formed their own committee with the intention of keeping their bills down at our (non-res) expense. There was nothing democratic about anything to do with this. TIME to form our own committee. Community money is FOR THE COMMUNITY AREAS  NOT WATER AND ELECTRICITY.

In a democratic society we all have the right to vote.   Not here.  This extraordinary AGM is unconstitutional. We are all owners in el Pinet but no information is shared with all of us ....only the few who seem to make unilateral decisions for their own gain.  30 euros a month for water and electricity....you must be joking. One aircon running for 10 hours will be 2.5 euros. Let the decision maker do their sums.   Perhaps they might realise that they are trying to steal from the rest of us.

Agendas should have been sent out, outlining what was going to be voted for .    Nada.   What motive?......

Those who have given their voting rights to this cabal, think again. Doesn't this remind you of San Jose asking at a meeting once for us all to give them power of attorney. I refused then.

Before I pay 60 euros community fees, hell will freeze over. .....

There is no way community fees are this high.  Only the one pool is in my community and it is out of action.

Without predjudice

Just been reading some old matierial. October minutes stated that the 'community' was NOT LEGAL. It therefore was ILLEGAL. Hence somebody  has broken the law in demanding and taking OUR money. It is only right that these people who have spent our money on themselves return that money in full with interest. Until a certificate of habitation is issued we are not supposed to be in the buildings. It is therefore logical to suggest that those who live there  move out, and that we with holiday homes visit other places.

Would it be too much to suggest that SJ knew that some water and electricity would have to be paid for and put that factor into the price we paid.

I understand Elche holds a €1.5m bond for the site. Why is this not being used. I might be being cynical here but if SJ were declared insolvent / bankrupt rather than in administration those wonderful lying b@@@@@@@ owners might lose more than they are doing now.   

Like many of you out there I've been waiting for this day for many months.

The day has arrived when Residents and 'their' self appointed administrators finally show their true colours and actually have the bare faced cheek to seek funds from non residents to subsidise their free loading lifestyle.

5 years of free water & electricty!!

Nobody including myself gave a **** when SJ were picking up the tab, now SJ are holding us all to ransom (which is contrary to Spanish law) the minority residents backed by their appointed administrators have decided to attempt to sting everyone else.

Its a no win situation but the fact remains if the site had no residents then their would be no fees.

Well its starting to get very interesting!

Its obviously very difficult for everyone concerned, residents originally moved in in good faith hoping the site would be completed, but the fact remains they have had 5 years free water & electricity.

Could all non residents send me their utility bills for the last five years and I'll ask for a fair and equitable contribution from all the residents, that sounds fair doesn't it? Oh, by the way thanks for keeping the communial pool going last summer and replacing a few fualty pumps, that realy justifies your plight and our contribution.

Anyway lets not fall out, that's certainly not going to help is it?

So what now?

Well if you don't pay the requested 60 Euro what's going to happen?

The new and what seems very efficient administrators will start to send you threatening letters and possibily even start legal proceeding. (good luck to them)

Obviously this will cost money (your money if you pay the charges)

The simple answer is;

PAY NOTHING AND IGNORE ALL COMMUNICATION CHASING PAYMENT -

If they have no money they have no mechanism to chase for payment. 

A 'MEXICAN STAND OFF' is the best course of action right now, non residents have been passive throughout these difficult times, but now the tide is turning and non residents need to stand firm. Dont underestimate the power of non residents. The vast majority of properties are owned by non residents.

My advice to everyone stay away, top up your home insurance and wait until the water & electric meters are fitted, SJ have completed the green areas and all pools are fully working with no leaks, lighting and road surfaces are done and finally Elche Town hall issue the Habitation notices, easy said I hear you say!!

All this will happen! SJ would have folded by now if it wasn't financially viable, no company goes into voluntary liquidation and survives this long if it isn't commercially viable. Have confidence.........................its a waiting game!

Residents need the community fees to keep the site going, SJ are ignoring the residents, the setting up of a community isn't going to get things finished any sooner, its just going to give the residents enough funds to have a good life and pay for the things that legally SJ should be covering but are washing their hands of. Don't think the residents are loking after your best interests, in fact they are making the situation worse and looking after themselves.

Anyway I ask you to consider the advice I've given, stay away (or limit your time out there) and don't pay anything, ignore the bank mandate sent out very efficiently by the new administrators and ignore any subsequent threats.

Unfortunately the minority residents will have to sort themselves out until its legally binding that all owners form a community.

Rememeber  the administrators are employed to carry out the wishes of the majority of owners, non residents are the majority and they have been passive todate becausee its not really been affecting them, 60 Euros per month for nothing should call the owners into action - RIGHT NOW, DOING NOTHING IS THE BEST COURSE OF ACTION. Don't be fooled, feel pressurised or simply worried into paying 60 euros per month

Divineintervention

PS  - I can't wait to hear the absolute rubbish that will be posted in opposition to this opinion, both morally and legally!!

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 last edited by Divineintervention on 13/02/2010.

This message was last edited by Divineintervention on 13/02/2010.

I am not really interested in getting into a resident versus non resident arguement. The bottom line and most important fact for me is that I am an owner who has made an investment. That investment can be made more secure and valuable if things get finished. I cannot see any way of that happening if we do not all stand and act together. 

Anyone who has a grievance with decisions made at any meeting should quite simply have made an effort to attend such meetings. You can hardly moan about decisions if you make no effort to be there to influence the decision making process.

If anyone is wealthy enough to gamble ending up with nothing for the sake of not paying 60 Euros a month then they are very lucky. Ending up with nothing is not a route I wish to take. I'll be paying the money and simply start making more use of the property to compensate for the payments.

Good luck to all.

Well said psbhoy!  We can all bang on about what's 'Legal' or 'Not Legal' until the cows come home but at the end of the day, we have all - residents and non -  been put in this situation through no fault of our own.  As owners it is imperative we stick together as a community in order to get the outcome we all want which is our FLO's.  Everyone now knows in retrospect that we should not have completed our purchase without this but where was our legal advice then? At the time we were advised it was all in order and the property was legally ours but no-one explained that without the Certificate of Habitation  we shouldn't even occupy it!

I am with psbhoy - we have a significant investment which we want to protect and if it means paying 60Euros a month in order to keep things progressing then that's what I will do. 

UNITED WE STAND - DIVIDED WE FALL!

Having just looked at this forum for the first time, I cannot believe some of the remarks I am reading. Thank goodness for psbhoy and others like him who are the voice of reason. When we bought these properties on El Pinet it was individual choice as to how we use them. We happened to choose to live here permanently and along with others have been working tirelessly for the five years since building stopped to keep this place habitable for everyone, including non residents who are only here for part of the year.  If it wasn't for the people who are here all or a good part of the time, this place would have been vandalised and in serious disrepair by now and those people who only come for a few weeks of the year wouldn't even be able to do that.  Do you think that San Jose would care whether your properties are safe from burglars or squatters. I don't think so! The power and water would have been cut off long ago if it wasn't for the community negotiating with San Jose's administrators. We are none of us happy at having to pay towards these bills but have had no choice up to now, the power having been cut four times so far. By the way, the 60 euros you are being asked to pay is not community fees, it is 20 euros for community fees and the balance for water and electricity, as it has been since September 2008

Hopefully we are coming to the end of this situation and will be getting habitation certificates within the next couple of months which means our own meters and our own bills but in the meantime I would suggest to all those who feel the need to make offensive remarks about people you don't even know, that if you want to have your say in what happens here - get off your arses and attend the meetings or better still, why not see what you can do to help keep this a good safe place to be, whether as a permanent home or a holiday home

Has anybody considered the fact that if this development fails, all of the residents will be homeless ??

Well doesn't that say it all about consideration for other people lorkil;

"get off your arses and attend the meetings"

Would that be the meeting which was held on 9th January, just after the xmas break finished?

Has it occurred to you that those of us who are lucky enough to have jobs would have been at work, whilst those of us who have fallen victim to the recession are unlikely to have the spare cash to pop over there for a day.

I would suggest that future meetings are held in Jul/Aug as most other communities arrange.

As a matter of interest, how many UK-based non-residents were able to attend?

Hi all what a God awful mess SJ have left behind them. Such a shame as El Pinet has such potential to be a wonderful place to be .I think you must all stick together as owners regardless of how much time you spend there .Thought this post on the Spanish lawyers thread may be of interest .

http://www.eyeonspain.com/forums/posts-long-9896.aspx

Actually, things are looking more promising for El Pinet at this moment in time than they have for the past five years. We just need to keep the power and water going for another couple of months then we will have our own meters. In fact some men fom the water company were here last week looking at where they will put the meters.

It will be very hard to "stick together" while there are people who are using sites such as this to accuse others of being "free loaders" and "living the good life" when we are mostly retired people who have worked hard  and paid our dues all our lives.

Also I cannot see how it would be beneficial to hold meetings in July/August. Surely the cost of coming over would be greater as flights are much more expensive at this time of year.

Lastly when you talk of "being inconsiderate" Mr Rolypoly.  I would call the name calling that has been on here from certain people directed at people who live here as very inconsiderate indeed.

Won't be using this site any more - just wanted to air my views on a few of the saddo's who obviously have nothing better to do than criticise others.

Enjoyed reading the positive opinions though

Hello All,

I have read with interest the comments made by all in this thread.

I'm sure all UK owners are paying into the health system. When in the UK 

sorry lorkil

but if the men from the water company  were looking for places to put the water meters. and they could not find them ...........would suggest a good place would be in the places on the plans

it's really not even about what's legal and what's not, though the present ' stasi' is not.  it's about what you are using. I will ALWAYS pay for what I use. If I don''t  I am either: a sponger or a thieif.

Dear Rolypoly

 agreed most non res uk people would have been back by then  ,,,,, and no info given.   My other point would be.....if the previous committee was illegal             how is it possible without any election / hustings / manifesto we at EP havea committee that now has unlimited access to my wallet. Perhaps if one of them provides me and you with their bank details we could put our salaries in to their acc'.......................I suspect that would not be enough.........you got   ' kidneys,,,,,lungs     pension!!!

Hi all,

I have been reading these posts with intrest and feel that I should now post what I have learnt over the last few days.

Firstly I have paid every penny asked of me from day one on the understanding that I would get my Cert of Habitaion. This date has changed three times  but now I wonder if I should stop paying.

I have met with someone who attenended this AGM meeting at El Pinet. He tells me that there was no vote held on the 60e payment, it would seem that when this payment was put on the floor a cher went up of hear, hear and it was accepted as being past.

He attendeded this speasial AGM meeting as it was called to set up the three communities at El Pinet and nothing else. However most of this meeting was taken over by getting money from non payers and how to get money from non residents.

It would also seem that no one had a say in allowing these new addministaters to run our community.

I have been adviced not to pay any more money into the El Pinet account as what they are doing is still illegal. You will have to deside for yourselfs what course of action you want to take, but as an after thought HAS ANYONE EVER SEEN A FINANCIAL REPORT FROM EL PINET I THINK NOT and wonder why!!!!! 

Interesting article from the Leader Costa Blanca . Not sure how the concept of communities will ever work well  .Perhaps best to advise new purchasers to avoid "communities " and all urbanisation's and go for traditional Spanish owned  village or town properties preferably detached  with no community legislation laws attached to the deeds , yet this could  bring a whole new set of problems .Not sure why anyone would risk a Spanish purchase at all ??????? Wish I hadn't bothered !!!!!  

http://www.theleader.info/article/21818/urbanisation-presidents-good-or-bad/

http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/buff/2010/02/15/costa-blanca-property-owners-hit-by-massive-hike-in-local-rates/

Hi

If you purchase an apartment in a block, or a townhouse or villa in an urbanisation, you will automatically become a member of the community of owners - with the right to vote at the Annual General Meetings - which administers general maintenance of areas of common ownership: such as streets, gardens, hallways, lifts and swimming pools, etc. An annual budget is calculated to cover these costs, which is divided between all owners according to the size of their properties - the amount depends on the facilities available, services provided and the number of properties contributing towards these facilities and services.

Assuming we actually have a legal community (and thats a major debate alone) where is the budget, how was the budget formulated and what's included in it, as far as I can see we have have no charges as the builder SJ hasn't finished and passed over responsibility.

Once this happens and habitation certs are issued then all the owners need to agree the community charge, it should be voted for as a resolution at the AGM or EGM.

Do not pay the 60 Euros requested.........................

So, as I have still to get the keys to my part finished property, here are my thoughts.

First of all, well done to the Committees as they give up their time for the benefit of the Community in the hope of getting things done.  So please remember this when some of you seem to be criticising them. San Jose are responsible for this mess along with Lawyers and Agencies who should have known Licences were not approved.

So moving on, why can't SJ, Elche Town Hall and CAM (administrators) find a way forward. Simply agree the completion schedule, fast track C of H and agree with Iberidola the supply and installations. That way Properties are completed, Communities are establised and everyone pays the correct costs and Elche collect Rates or whatever it is similar to the Council Tax in the UK .

In the meantime the Community charge is set at say 60 Euros per month and a Utility Charge is agreed for Residents and Non Residents as it was in 2009, 60 Euros for Residnets and 40 Euros for Non Residents. As a Non Resident this is probably in line with what I would have to pay when contracted to Iberdiola.  The Community Charge should be only used for the benefit of the Community and not to sunsidise any other costs.

It' s about time we all recognise the benefits of Free usage of the estate over the last 5 years despite all the inconvenience's caused to Residents and Non Residents and start working together. 

Ideally all future AGM's should be in early Summer to engage with all Resdients and democratically agree on future charges. Let's accept the current movement has been made with the best intentions by all concerned and build on it.

I for one will carry on paying my Community Charge and hope we all have the same common purpose and that is to get El Pinet completed so we can all reap the benefits of our investment. Resident or Non Resident