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06 Feb 2011 1:29 PM by victor meldrew Star rating. 185 forum posts Send private message


 

 

gringo

 http://www.pinetmr9.blogspot.com

 The old website has something written in Spanish.


 



This message was last edited by victor meldrew on 06/02/2011.


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06 Feb 2011 1:51 PM by victor meldrew Star rating. 185 forum posts Send private message

In response to psbhoy...disgusted.

Last summer I overheard a conversation between 2 residents descibing how unhappy they were at non residents and people who had rented  on ep for using THEIR water. You would fall into that catagory.

You can turn your own water back on by going to the box and turning the relevant taps. If there is a lock on the box remove it!

Maybe now you are seeing the reality.




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06 Feb 2011 2:08 PM by gringo Star rating. 38 forum posts Send private message

CEEJAY

I dont want to get involved in slanging matches but you have not answered the question. Who has the keys!!!!!!

Give us a list of names.... I THINK NOT

NON PAYERS HAVE BEEN NAMED AND SHAMED 

GIVE US THIS LIST NAME AND SHAME THEM......I THINK NOT and as you say we are all one. who are you kidding

Thanks V.M.   




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06 Feb 2011 2:21 PM by victor meldrew Star rating. 185 forum posts Send private message

About 70 - 75 %  of owners were on that list. That in itself says what we think of the situation. As for publishing private information and describing them as debtors is probably illegal. It would be in the UK.   I wonder if it is  libelous.




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06 Feb 2011 2:36 PM by disenchanted Star rating. 4 forum posts Send private message

 Hi Ceejay,

 
In response to your quote; "Yes I think it is a good idea for legal advice to be sought but who is going to pay for it? Those who currently pay nothing are certainly not going to".  I have attached a copy of a posting made on 9 March 2010 at 14.22.  I think it is page 17 on the links below.  I am a non-payer and I contacted this guy because I wanted to pay for legal advice - as did several other non-payers.  Where were you then??
---------------

Hi folks,

As a newbie here I have just caught up with all the postings below and I have also read the somewhat enlightening postings on the eyeonspain forum at - Spanish Lawyers/Builders supply of water and electricity.  Being a newcomer I cannot attach the link, but inspectahomespain quotes the following:.

This is a grey area as legally even in administration, which means they are still trading, the receiver has a legal responsibility to agree the payments of the builder which has been happening for example at some of the San Jose developments where I understand that the services are still connected and being paid for

It is quite complex as some utility suppliers will not connect up services without a COH so there are other examples where the builder stops paying for the utilities and the owners are left without power or water

Recently in Orihuela Costa when this happened the town hall stepped in an provided generators as they agreed the delay in the cOH were their fault

The fact still stands that if a company is still trading they, or their agents,  are legally required to provide utilities if there is no COH 

Now, picking up on a very valid point made by Throstle, can I ask if anyone is interested in setting up an action group to get some legal advice over this?  Briefly I would see it working something like this...

1.   We canvas as many residents/non-residents as possible to see if they are interested in making a donation to an El Pinet legal fund, maybe €100 per person.

2.   Once we have some funds we find a very reputable solicitor from the local area who knows their way around the corridors of power within Elche council.

3.   We ask them to contact San Jose to question the legality of not providing us with free services until COH is finalised. We ask them to liaise with Elche and San Jose' administrators to get a realistic timeframe for the completion of ALL units and services.

Hence, with just a few solicitors’ letters we could get advice on most of our issues without getting involved in expensive court actions. At the end of the process we could either return the balance of the money to donors, or donate it to a local charity.  All invoices could be emailed to donors.

There would be NO remit to challenge the work of the CAM administrators and there would be NO remit to ask for guidance with internal arguments over community fees, etc.  The process would only be in place to protect our interests against external agencies.

 

 What do we stand to gain???

 We would find out if San Jose’s actions are legal. We should get a detailed timeline for completion. We just might find that San Jose is indeed liable for all water and electricity costs up to COH.

 

 What do we stand to lose???

 Maybe €100, depending upon numbers.

 If there is scope to proceed along this route then I would be willing to drive it forward.

 

 Anyone interested?

 Bob




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06 Feb 2011 4:56 PM by Lambourn Star rating. 19 forum posts Send private message

  "Disenchanted"

Many thanks for your interesting comments and I appreciate the trouble you have taken to research the issue of provision of utilities.   I am a non-resident owner and I find the most frustrating aspect in all of this is not knowing where we stand legally and a close second is lack of information on the El Pinet website as to what the current situation really is.     To be honest, I really begin to wonder if a genuine, trustworthy legal system in Spain actually exists.   As CeeJay mentioned earlier, if the properties are legally uninhabitable, why are we being required to pay IBI (SUMA) tax?     Any why did our Solicitors allow us to complete on the properties without a CoH, or at least without advising us of the consequences of doing so.    Also, as presumably professional and bona fide Community Administrators, should MSGI be collecting money from us for utlities if we are living in the properties illegally and if legally, providing for utilities should be SJ's responsibility anyway?     I would have expected some guidance from them on this issue.

Having said all that, I would be prepared to pay 100 euros into a fund to try to ascertain by whatever means, exactly where we all stand and also when the site will be finished and Certificates of Habitation issued.   Many thanks for offering to drive this forward.

 




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06 Feb 2011 6:01 PM by CeeJay Star rating in Costa Blanca and Eas.... 39 forum posts Send private message

CeeJay´s avatar

Thanks for your info Disenchanted. (Don't know where I was on 9 March 2010 - have to check my calendar!). Did you get any  feedback from canvassing owners?

Agree with Lambourn - quote  "To be honest, I really begin to wonder if a genuine, trustworthy legal system in Spain actually exists. "  I have never understood the logic that on the one hand, they could sell you a property and the developers supply utilities until issue of a CoH, but on the other hand, you are not supposed to live there.  So why would they need to supply utilities if you can't live in your property? Bit of a conundrum there. Also, do they have to supply these services free of charge? Is there any time limit to how long the utilities should be provided for? Was this ruling intended as a stopgap measure and not to go on ad infinitum?

Sorry Gringo, no idea who has keys so can't help you. Not getting into any slanging matches as far as I am concerned, just having a healthy debate.




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06 Feb 2011 8:18 PM by 9_Palms Star rating. 214 forum posts Send private message

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I go back to the minutes of the meeting where there was going to be legal action and a meeting with both Elche council and San Jose, not at the same time.

I see no point in paying €100 when all it is going to pay for is expensive utilities.

has the question been answered about money the committee had from SJ as a loan? If so what was it used for?


 



This message was last edited by 9_Palms on 06/02/2011.

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06 Feb 2011 9:07 PM by CeeJay Star rating in Costa Blanca and Eas.... 39 forum posts Send private message

CeeJay´s avatar

**  EDITED - Corrupted post  **



This message was last edited by EOS Team on 08/02/2011.


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06 Feb 2011 11:16 PM by 9_Palms Star rating. 214 forum posts Send private message

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The situation we find ourselves in can best be describe with this analogy.

The RMS Titanic the largest ship at the time, built by Harland and Wolf, financed by the banks. There were problems with the design but as cost was an issue nothing was done about these issues. It set sail for the new world with the hopes of those onboard of a new life in another country. As we know it struck an iceberg and because of issues in its design the ship took on water and sank, which resulted in the loss of 1,517. There was panic on board, different classes of passengers were held back and there were no proper plans put into action.
 
Picture the scene RMS El Pinet, so many promises of a great place to be, a new start in a new county. Good design, flag ship residence. People putting the only money they had into it. Banks, the construction company and legal people who don’t consider the consequences of their action on the individual. The pursuit of profit! We have one person against another as we climb over each other to get nowhere. And to top it all we are trying to bail ourselves out of this mess with our hands.
 
So what do we do? Man the life boats, just drift away? It’s one answer, as its illegal to be there, occuping or rent out our properties! I think it’s what the construction company would want, as it gets us out of their hair. They can pick us off one by one and buy back the properties at a loss to us.
 
The other option is to put some of the community money towards a legal team (extra ordinary meeting required) and sort out the issue’s.
Its madness just to have bean counters and not have legal representation. Why have an orchestra to play us off into the cold. When we need a rescue plan, to put this mess right.
 
 
I must apologies to anyone who had relatives or friends on the Titanic as it was a tragedy that should never have happened.


This message was last edited by 9_Palms on 07/02/2011.

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10 Feb 2011 1:31 PM by CeeJay Star rating in Costa Blanca and Eas.... 39 forum posts Send private message

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Sorry my previous post corrupted the thread but EOS has sorted it out now!

The information we have is that water is sometimes turned off to some properties when it is evident  there is a serious problem with water leaks that have to be dealt with urgently and for no other reason.  Perhaps psbhoy could confirm that this was the case with his properties?

Just like to get the facts straight.

 




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10 Feb 2011 8:11 PM by psbhoy Star rating. 49 forum posts Send private message

Hi Ceejay

It sounds like this does seem to have been the case for my property. I managed to get the water back on within an hour or so. I am still concerned however that those turning it off should really leave some notifiaction for the likes of myself so that we know where to go to get it resolved

Psbhoy




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10 Feb 2011 11:32 PM by CeeJay Star rating in Costa Blanca and Eas.... 39 forum posts Send private message

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Thanks Psbhoy for the update and glad you got your problem sorted so quickly.




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11 Feb 2011 12:40 AM by victor meldrew Star rating. 185 forum posts Send private message

So was there a serious problem with your water...a big leak?




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11 Feb 2011 3:02 PM by psbhoy Star rating. 49 forum posts Send private message

No idea...all I know is that my water is now on




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11 Feb 2011 11:55 PM by victor meldrew Star rating. 185 forum posts Send private message

If it had been you WOULD  know about it




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12 Feb 2011 1:19 PM by CeeJay Star rating in Costa Blanca and Eas.... 39 forum posts Send private message

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We are not residents, but from the time we have spent there over the years and talking to our friends and neighbours who are resident, we know that water leaks are an ongoing problem.  In an ideal world we would be on mains water by now, but we are not and are still dependent on developers supply. 

In order to identify where a leak is occurring, we are told it is necessary to turn off sections at a time and once it has been found, then it can be dealt with.




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28 Feb 2011 11:39 PM by victor meldrew Star rating. 185 forum posts Send private message

Positive news....Spotted workers on N332 today.

Negative news..... Did not see any on EP.

 




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02 Mar 2011 10:06 AM by 9_Palms Star rating. 214 forum posts Send private message

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I picked up this from another thread on EoS

 

Builder's Electricity

Guslopez:

My understanding is that it's illegal to charge for electricity or water supplied by the constructor.


 

______________________

Ciudad del Sol
 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mariadecastro:

Yes, it is illegal.

Why?

Obvious answer: because that should never happen. 

The same fact of just habitating a house without proper habitation license ( whatever the reason for this is: most likely lack of the correponding licenses) is illegal and can actually bring a fine by the administration to the habitant.

You may find this article interesting reading: http://www.eyeonspain.com/spain-magazine/licence-first-occupation.aspx

So charging for an illegal activity provoked by your own illegal acts is criminally illegal.

What is the best option then? never to habitate a house without FOL and make the corrsponsing claims against developer/bank involved.

Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA

Lawyer

Director www.costaluzlawyers.es



This message was last edited by 9_Palms on 02/03/2011.

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02 Mar 2011 12:50 PM by CeeJay Star rating in Costa Blanca and Eas.... 39 forum posts Send private message

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We are going round in circles here.  Under Spanish law we legally own properties we cannot legally inhabit without FOL. We know this NOW, but how many of us were told this at the time of purchase? How many of us can afford not to use their properties? How much do we stand to lose if we just throw in the towel?

Eight years down the line we are still without FOL's so unless we can afford to take on lengthy legal battles what do we do? Leave all the properties empty and end up with a derelict site? Then we have lost everything. Or do we keep trying to get SJ and Elche Council to sort this mess out? 

Maybe the EU should concentrate on putting pressure on the Spanish Government to sort out this problem instead of whether insurance companies are allowed to discriminate against young male drivers?! Try lobbying the British Foreign Office, the EU and the Spanish Government ministers instead. We need to form a united lobbying group - are there any Joanna Lumley's out there willing to take this on?!




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Previous Threads

AGM News - 10 posts
EL PINET BLOG - 31 posts
SJ are disgraceful - 12 posts
"Rumours " remortgages - 2 posts
construction stage at M7 el pinet - 7 posts
Photographs please - 1 posts
Electric Oven & Hobs - 0 posts
El Pinet infrastructure - 1 posts
El Pinet - 0 posts
GOOD NEWS - 1 posts
Telemicro - Has this happened to you? - 0 posts
Be careful - 7 posts
Water /electric charges - 28 posts
solicitor fees - 1 posts
El Pinet development - 35 posts
Info req - 17 posts
Certificate of Habitation for El Pinet - 7 posts
Hertz Car Hire - 0 posts
Flights to Reus - 4 posts
YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID? - 6 posts
Any thoughts on La Marina Urbanisation near Santa Pola Costa Blanca? - 15 posts
Antiques for Sale - 18 posts
Agents Commision - 0 posts
Max Kite - 0 posts
Spanish post office any good? - 3 posts

820 posts were found:


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