Dogs on beaches

HI ALL.
JUST HAD LETTER REGARDING THE SETTING UP OF THE COMMUNITY AT MIRADOR ETC.
THEY DONT GIVE MUCH NOTICE TO MAKE ARRANGEMENTS TO ATTEND, DATE GIVEN FOR THE METTING IS THE 1ST OF SEPTEMBER AND THEY MUST THINK THAT EVERYONE CAN JUST DROP EVERYTHING AND NIP OUT TO SPAIN TO ATTEND SAID METTING.WONT BE OUT AT MIRADOR UNTIL THE 6TH SEPT FOR OUR HOLS.SO I WILL NOT MAKE THE METTING ETC,BUT IT WOULD BE HANDY TO KNOW WHAT OCCURS,SO IF ANYONE GETS ANY INFO PLEASE LET THE REST OF US KNOW.
CHEERS
BILLY/JANET
PS.SEEMS THAT THE MEETING IS TO APPOINT COMMITEE ETC SO IT IS A PITY THAT NOT ALL OF US WILL GET OUR SAY DUE TO NOT BEING THERE.

Hi Everyone,

Just been speaking to Mick at number one to see if he has heard anything about this letter and he hasn't heard anything. He has requested that l send a copy of the letter to him and that will go tonight.

It seems very funny that everyone already over there has heard nothing.....

 

James

Hi, Everyone,
We got the letter a couple of days ago (Tuesday) here in the Uk re. the meeting on  the 1st.  I would agree with Billy that there's been not enough notice!  We 're leaving  tomorrow, arriving in Cox sometime on Saturday 31st, so we'll be able to make the meeting.  Can't wait to get out there and people (and sun!) again.  Donnax

Hi All,

We just got back on Tuesday evening from Mirador to the letter regarding the formation of the community of owners.

I don't know how you all feel but we think that the meeting should be adjourned and rescheduled as a lot of the owners don't know about it (NO POST YET AT MIRADOR) and how can we form a community when the council hasn't even issued a licence of 1st occupation yet? For that matter everyone should be given a fair say!

Bearing in mind that the set-up and running of the community (committee) will be decided at this meeting (including the appointment of the administrator who usually works for the builder), We will be drafting a strong letter to these guys objecting to the meeting and requesting a rescheduled date with better notice for owners that live abroad.

Other owners on this site and friends who are property agents in Spain recommend the sacking of the builder's administrator from day one and appointing one from the many down the road in Torrevieja. A good solicitor can advise (such as the one on this site called Maria - I think).

We don't want to make the mistakes now that we will all have to pay for at a later date!!

 I have friends & clients with properties in Malaga, Costa del Sol & Costa Brava who have been paying crazy community charges (over €500 per quarter) and they have just got around to sacking their builder-appointed administrator after quite a few years and this has now saved them all a small fortune i.e. as their is no builder input, prices for maintenance etc. have plumetted. Price through the old administrator to paint the outside of their complex was €70,000 but this year with new administrator they haven't gone for the cheapest quote (quite rightly so) but they have got the job done for €37,000. A scary but true story from a client of mine who has a place in Mijas Costa, Costa Del Sol.

We would be interested to know your feelings.

Regards,

James & Jo.

Hi all 

I would strongly agree with James & Jo.  In terms of the notice that has been given,  albeit to some of us, it is in accordance with the legal requirements( 6 days! Horizontal Property Law).  

It would seem from some threads I have read that it would be inadviseable to have an administrator apointed by the builder.  There may be a conflict of interest should any problems arise with the builder.

Below are a couple of posts giving some advice to setting up a community.

I would highly recommend to postpone the election of the Administrator till several budgets are presented to you,.

_______________________

Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA

Lawyer


I would expect the developer to call the first meeting pretty soon after the Licence of First Occupation has been issued, even if there are still unsold units or buyers yet to sign, since he will want to unburden himself of maintainence costs as soon as possible (by passing them on to new owners). I don't think there's any official point at which it will be called. 

As far as I am aware we do not yet have an LFO.

It would certainly seem that this is an invitation by the administrator appointed by the developer. First question has to be, has the development received the first occupation licence yet? If not, you are not obliged to complete on the property, and therefore nobody can force you to form an official community yet (first item on the agenda). Second item is approving a budget for the rest of the year. Again, irrelevant if you haven't yet completed. Third item is regarding electing a president and vice president. Until these three points have been covered, nothing can "pushed through" as you fear, since any decisions have to be made according to the rules governing communities. The developer will have (by law) prodeced a set of "statutes" covering various things already, but nothing that you need worry about.

There is such a raft of information to trawl through.  It makes it very difficult to have any input when some of us are unable to be there, which raises the question of the meeting, 1st call and  2nd call  being a quorum and the builders share of the vote for unsold properties.

 Having said that I am not sure what our recourse would be.  If we do not have an LFO can builder can hand over the community can we therefore  have a community meeting.   If we have completed on the property could that be a different matter as some of us completed without the LFO.

It may be an idea to post on the general forum and ask for advice.

I've probably just said everything James/Jo have said but at least we are on the same wavelength.

Regards

Janet/Billy

We've just recieved this letter as well. Notice is shocking (6days) but if that's in keeping with the appropriate laws I guess we'll have to live with it. 
Does anyone know if there's a set quorum before this meeting can take place, the limit of any decisions that can be taken, how binding those decisions will be on those unable to get themselves there to offer their opinions etc or if you can nominate yourself for the committee in your absence. 
I was considering jumping a plane and attending but until I can answer these questions there seems little point. We would like to have a voice on the committee if possible and given that we are 3 we think that there's a reasonable chance that 1 of us could attend any meeting, given a little notice. I don't think distance is a barrier to anyone joining the committee as with e-mail / msn messenger etc communication can be good even at a distance.
I would be very interested to hear what others think, Jeycon (James and Jo) seem to have some knowledge of the systems at work here ~ would you care to comment further? Best wishes, Stuart, Linda & Lynne (30).

hi all,
just to let everyone know that our names are kevin and linda,and we have bought number 56.
we shall be in mirador de la vega for two weeks arriving august 31st,and will look forward to
meeting you all.
regards,
kevin and linda. 

Hi All,

I think that someone needs to attend to represent the opinions and interests of us all. We need to push for an adjournment to get a little bit more organised i.e. prepare our own list of questions and opinions. We could then appoint  a spokesperson to speak on our behalf. It would save a lot of unnecessary travel for us all. I would happily attend or contribute financially to someone's attendance.

Let me know what you think?

I can private message my number to anyone wants to discuss this further as although this is a great system of keeping in contact. It's a little slow - back and forwards!

I have spoken to my Estate Agent contact in Torrevieja as regards the lack of notice and he reckons that it shouldn't go ahead as there is not enough notice to get information from the Town Hall (closed for August) etc.

I have sent the following email and fax today:


Has anyone else wrote to them?

Let me know of Private message your number and I will call you back.


Regards,

James & Joanne.

Hi. 
David & Linda from 44.
One minute I'm going over, the next  I'm not.
Does anybody know how many owners are aware of this site and read it. We only heard about it from our neighbours at Mirador recently,.
Has anybody considered that there may be owners who are going to expense of turning up who haven't seen this site so are blissfully unaware of the issues raised in your messages.
They will not be happy bunnies if they turn up and the meeting has been postponed.
Do I come over or not.
Time is running out (even though a few days in the sun is a better prospect than working)
I'll probably come over and take the chance,but if the truth is out there can somebody let me know.
See some of you on Monday around the pool.
David

hi all.
i think we need to establish if the l.f.o. has been granted to us before any meeting takes place as i am led to believe no meetings can do so before said l.f.o. is in place.
horizontal law states only six days notice is required to be given for meeting? if this is so.
i am going to mirador on the 6th sept and will hopefully find out more when there but like everyone else have my concerns about the builder supplying their administrator,would not be in our interests for this to be so.

i  have not been informed as of yet by anyone representing builder etc of L.F.O. being granted.
cheers
billy/janet(28)

Hi Everyone

We received our letter just before we went to Mirador last week which we took with us which was copied for all the people who live out there full time as they still hadn't been notified of the meeting.  I think they are all planning to meet today to prepare a list of questions for the meeting on 1st September.  Campbell and I did consider me flying back out there to attend the meeting but in the end we decided to give our representation to our next door neighbour.   We don't really have any experience with community etc. but am having palpations when reading about €500 a quarter fees!!   Think I need to do some research and bring myself up to speed!

We only got back late last night but wish I were back there already!

Lou

Welcome back Lou & Cameron (got it right this time!)

Only this morning I saw this thread and the impact of it hit home.  We've been trying to get hold of  Mick to ask if he'd be willing to represent us but haven't been able to get hold of him.  Have sent our form giving Mick permission anyway, so if anyone is due out there, please would you pass our apologies for dropping him in it.

Yes, forming our own committee is definitely the way forward and if there's anything we can do on our already planned trip on 15th let us know.

Perhaps we can organise enough of us to fly out for a future date.  Have we got anyone on our complex and this forum with any expertise on setting up committees?  Alan has served on several but not actually set them up from scratch. 

Can't wait for some sunshine.  Apparently the mozzies are bad out there at the moment - is that right Lou?   Anyway, it's got to be better than this crap we've had the pleasure of this summer!

Cheers

LOL it's Campbell - just stick to Cam :0)

Didn't meet any mozzies and not a bite insight. 

Lou

Just  testing you're awake !!!! LOL    Glad to hear our side isn't mozzie territory.

dil

I've had some discussion with jeycon. I'm inclined to agree with those who think we should ask some questions before leaping into forming a community. Has license of 1st occupation been issued? It is my understanding (rightly or wrongly) that this should be issued before a community can be formed. What is the proposed budget? If we are to elect a president should 1st consideration be given to someone who can speak fluent spanish and so communicate effectively with townhall if need be? 
If we cannot stop this meeting going ahead at such short notice should we attempt to adjourn for a period of time (weeks) immediately after office bearers are elected so the proposed budget can be examined and discussed amongst a wider audience of owners before approval? Shouldn't we get at least two or three quotes from different management companies rather that accepting the builders choice (conflict of interest there I think)? I don't have any answers but I do think that before we get so excited about this we should take a deep breath and consider the implications of these first steps into the unknown. It feels as though we're being rushed into forming this community by rodas3 and lets not forget that right now they are being retained by the builder, they do not seem to be acting in our interests! Food for thought...Marry in haste repent at leisure. Stuart.

Hi All

Dil posed the question about experience either being on or setting up a committee.  For the past 12 years I have been involved in setting up and sitting on Committees and Board of Directors and I am currently a Director of a Voluntary Sector organisation and board member of a UK wide organisation.

The systems in Spain and Uk are pretty similar but I think it is important not to be railroaded into agreeing to specifics at the first meeting, this is generally where things can go wrong.  There are different ways in which to set up a committee and sometimes this will depend on what type of committee it will be.  Generally a steering group will be set up to look at the formalities of the committee e.g. will it be corporated, unincorporated, Limited by Guarantee.  The steering group would be responsible for looking at budgets, quotes, forming the consitution, Articles of Association & Memorandum etc. 

Once that has been done the steering group would come together to officially form the committee and appoint the Office Bearers, i.e. Chairperson(President), Vice Chair (Vice President) Treasurer, Secretery (Administrator, it would seem in Spain this is a dual role).  Ocassionally where there are more than one niomination for the office posts, the nomimnees would be asked to submit a synopsis of their relevant knowledge, experience for the post, this info given to each voting member so they can make a reasonbly informd decision on who they wish to vote for.

I think broadly speaking this could work for our community,  although time is very much against us.  A few people could come together to form the steering group and one or more could look at specific action points e.g quotes for maintenance work, adminsitrator fees, look at what is working for other communities of similar size, owners etc, no point in reinventing the wheel!  This can then be brought back to the community as a whole and agreements made on agenda items, appointment of administrators, Office bearers and budgets.  My understandisng is the Administrator will deal with the formalities of setting up a community.

It is fairly simple to operate on the above basis, the difficulty in this case (telling you what you already know) is not everyone can be there at the same time.  Although legally they only need to give 6 days notice for an AGM or EGM, any other meetings throughout the year can be planned with formal notice given in time as a reminder of forthcoming meetings.


With regards to the meeting on Monday ,if the LFO is not in place then I am sure the meeting can be adjourned, from the group of people that will be present ,perhaps a small steering group could be organised.  If the LFO is in place then the agenda items can be dealt with and the community can agree to postone discussing the budget and appointment of Adminstrator.  On any agenda there should be the opportunity for 'Any Other Competent Business' .  At this point the group could agree to set up a steering group to look at the above.

Reading back over this it seems a bit long winded but in reality it is pretty straightforward to do as long as all or at the very least the majority are in agreement with that particular course of action..

Hope it has been helpful. 

Regards to all and good luck to those of you who are going to the meeting.

(We will be over on the 6th September so will hear how it all went.)

Janet & Billy (28)

Hi All

I attach e-mail corespondence I have had with Rodas 3 for information

Good morning,
I have received a lot of e-mails about the problem with the date. We sent
the letters lot of weeks ago but the post here is very bad in summer. We
can't change the date because is a right of the builder decide when do the
constitution of the community, this right is written in the escriture. Next
year, the committee will decide when they want to do the meeting.
You can leave your vote to other proprietor and he can vote in your name.
The budgets will be given before starting the meeting, and you will receive
the minutes including the budgets approved by the majority. I will send you
the minutes to this email address.
I hope to send it to you 2 or 3 weeks after the meeting.

Regards
Maria


I e-mail with reference to a letter received recently regarding constitution
of community at Mirador de la Vega II.  I am a joint owner of Plot 30, along
with Stuart and Linda Ferrier.  Unfortunately the letter was only received
by me on 19th August, whilst I was still in Spain.  Our main concern at
present is that having only returned from Spain this week, we are not in a
position to attend this meeting.  Whilst we are aware that notice for this
meeting complies with Spanish horizontal property law, we would urge you to
consider rearranging the meeting to a later date.  This would give all who
are not resident in Spain an opportunity to make arrangements to attend the
meeting.  We are aware of others who are also not able to attend due to the
short notice given, but who would make every effort to attend given a bit
more notice.

If it is not possible to rearrange the date of the meeting, we would be
grateful if you could send us a copy of all papers to be discussed at the
meeting, in particular we would insist on having a copy of the economic
budgets to be approved.  As far as the naming of the committee is concerned,
we would like you to note our interest in one of us being appointed to the
committee.  We would be grateful if you could let us know how we should do
this in our absence.  Should we get another owner to propose and second our
appointment?  

If we decide to give our representation to another, should we return the
slip to you prior to the meeting?

Lastly, we would be grateful if you could let us know who will be preparing
minutes of the meeting, and when we might expect to receive a copy of the
minutes.  We would be grateful if you could e-mail the minutes to this
e-mail address as soon as possible after the meeting.

I look forward to hearing from you

Kind regards

Lynne Bell

Hi Everyone, hope you are all OK.

I have an urgent message for Chris and Sonia and if anyone happens to know their telephone number a call to them would be appreciated.....

Could Chris or Sonia contact Mick at Number One URGENTLY please.


Many thanks

James

 

This message was last edited by SpanishTogs on 8/31/2008.

			MIRADOR DE LA VEGA II
	Seguro Edificio / Building insurance				1,245.36 €
	Agua / Water				400.00 €
	Luz / Electricity				1,100.00 €
	Mantenimiento de piscina / Pool maintenance						1,920.00 €
	Limpieza zonas comunes / Cleaning of communal zones						960.00 €
	Mantenimiento jardines / Gardens maintenance						960.00 €
	Honorarios administracion / Administration fees						1,843.20 €
	Iva administracion / VAT Administration						294.91 €
	Material de Oficina y Correos / Office post and material						100.00 €
	Reparación y mantenimiento general / Repair and general maintenance						500.00 €
	Interes y gastos banco / Bank interests and costs						75.00 €
	Fondo de Reserva (5%) / Reserve of funds						469.92 €
		Totales / Total			9,868.39 €
			Prespuesto / Budget		9,868.39 €