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Thoughts of Eggcup

I find myself wondering about things sometimes and want to see if others feel the same.

Envidia y codicia, envy and covetousness
Tuesday, April 16, 2013 @ 9:48 PM

Sometimes I can’t work out why some friends react in a particular way to something I’ve said. I’m puzzled. Maybe I was expecting an interested raised eyebrow or an involuntary titter. Why, for example, didn’t my friend compliment one thing about our newly-built Spanish house when Adrian showed her photos of the finished article? Why, when I mentioned I’d just published a book, didn’t she ask one thing about it, but immediately changed the subject (I thought she couldn’t have heard me)?  And how come we don’t even know if she liked what we just cooked, as she hasn’t said one good thing about it and it was, if I say so myself, delicious? Why does she respond with a deafening silence to anything I do that’s positive, but will make sympathetic noises and give friendly advice for hours if I say my dog’s got eczema? Why do I have to decide before we meet for a café con leche which subjects are taboo and which are safe?

To me, the only explanation is envy, or envidia as it’s known in Spain (mixed with a dose of competitiveness). A Spanish friend, Carmela, once declared envidia to be a defining characteristic of the majority of inhabitants of our village in Spain (maybe it’s a national trait?). She believed envidia was at the root of the antipathy shown towards her by many of her old school friends, who resented her success and believed she was now lording it over them. This is a woman whose child had died and who lived every day with that grief; all they could see was her money.

 

To illustrate the attitude towards Carmela: My English friend Judy worked in a local restaurant (it was a place I found annoying because there were no prices displayed; I would be like a coiled spring before the cuenta was presented, being notoriously careful with my money). One day Carmela had the audacity (bravery) to query the bill after dining with a few friends and Judy was astounded: ‘With all the money she’s got. What does it matter to her?’ Well, Judy, how do you think she got rich in the first place? By not being a fool, that’s how. When I told Carmela how various people thought they could have free access to our  money and had tried to stitch us up in various ways, she suggested we tell them: ‘Extranjeros si; tontos no!’ In other words, we might be foreigners, but we’re not idiots.

 

It was also in Spain that I experienced how envy could lead to covetousness. I’ve only ever come across this in Spain; for that reason, I learnt the word, codicia. People would see something I had (an extendable table, a Scandinavian wood burner, an IKEA potato masher), say, ‘I love that,’ and then ask, ‘Can I buy it off you?’ Excuse me, but why do you think I struggled with loading my bargain table onto the roof rack and drove back from the coast like a nervous wreck worried it might fall off and kill an entire family? Because I like it as well! With the potato masher, the woman asked, ‘Could you get me one like that, por favor?’ and I said, ‘Yes, I got it from el pais de Gales. Give me seven euros and I’ll bring you one back.’

 

There is also sometimes an expectation that you should hand over your money or belongings just because someone else thinks you’re better off than them. Last year French friends were visiting and the one, who is a close friend of ours, tried to pay the bill for 14 of us in a curry house. Adrian and I obviously refused, an argument ensued and our French friend’s other friends said, ‘Let him pay! He’s rich.’ ‘I don’t care how rich he is,’ I said, ‘he’s not paying for us!’ I didn’t care if he was the richest man in the Universe. Why should he pay for me? For some, however, it seems second nature to take from others. These are the same people who are preternaturally envious and unable to accept what they’ve got but also unwillling to change what they’re doing to gain the objects of their desire legitimately.

 

Of course, there’s nothing wrong with admiring something that belongs to someone else. Just don’t then ask if you can have it! These people brush aside the problems that come with wealth. I’d like a chateau for example, but I wouldn’t like the French taxes or the heating bill. I’d also like to be a world-famous singer, with all the money that comes with it, but if a paparazzo hung round my house and wouldn’t give me any peace I’d punch him in the face. I wouldn’t want these people’s lives and I wouldn’t make the sacrifices they’ve made.

 

But people who think money is everything have no sympathy for the problems wealthy people face; as though the fact of them having money precludes them from the right to some understanding. I remember reading years ago how Charlotte Ford, heir to a massive fortune and the richest woman in America, had a lying, cheating toe-rag for a husband, and I was shocked; shocked to realise that even that incredible wealth couldn’t protect a woman from the pain and suffering of being cheated on by the man who was supposed to love her. I thought, ‘Is no woman safe from being treated that way?’ Others would have thought, ‘Who cares? She’s loaded.’

 

When will people realise money isn’t everything?



Like 1




13 Comments


Patricia (Campana) said:
Tuesday, April 16, 2013 @ 9:42 PM

Eggcup:

Those people aren't friends in any sense of the word. Real friends are not envious but enjoy your successes. There are no taboo subject with real friends.

Rise above it, Eggcup. That's all you can do.




Sandra Piddock said:
Tuesday, April 16, 2013 @ 10:32 PM

+1 for what Patricia said! People tell us how 'lucky' we are to be here in Spain, and how 'lucky' I am to earn from my writing. My response is:

'The harder I work, the luckier I seem to get!'

Yes, we are lucky to have our apartment in Algorfa, and I'm lucky to be doing a job I love, which fits in with my health issues. I didn't consider myself lucky when I had to be medically retired at 45, though.

I've managed to find a way to live the life I want to live, and yet people say I'm 'lucky' as if I should be ashamed of what we've worked for. Some people just defy comprehension.

Another candid post, Eggcup - great job.


Gerald said:
Tuesday, April 16, 2013 @ 11:08 PM

Yea it was Jack Nicklous who when sinking an unbelievable shot replied in this manner, "funny that the harder I work at my game the luckier I get" to the opponent who said you, "Jack you lucky".

But yes Eggie I'm afraid that there will always be envy & desire for your "things" whether they be visible or just worked for. One of the Commandments so they are thousands of years old.


Barry said:
Wednesday, April 17, 2013 @ 7:56 AM

Well done eggcup great blog. Agree lots of envy out there, even when Sam and I ran the bar people seemed to think we were well off. Perhaps we were but worked 18 hours a day to get it.


Dave said:
Wednesday, April 17, 2013 @ 8:00 AM

Quite correct - hard work trumps all.
But, Eggcup, another view from your friend might be? interior designer/ author/ gifted cook - intimidating or what. Your friend may be more comfortable with the mundane. New friends perhaps ?

I was once pleased with something in my life and was telling a friend the long story and used the phrase '' at the risk of being boring''. No risk there Dave, he replied. Still a friend I might add.


eggcup said:
Wednesday, April 17, 2013 @ 10:07 AM

My problem is that I'm getting increasingly intolerant of so many people I'll end up a hermit if I'm not careful.


Patricia (Campana) said:
Wednesday, April 17, 2013 @ 1:06 PM

I know the feeling, Eggcup.

Again, old friends are best friends IMO. I have very few close friends, and they mostly go way back to my school and college days, plus those Spanish friends I made when I first came to Spain all those years ago.
Acquaintances? Yes, I have quite a number of those, work-related, or people I meet occasionally for one reason or another.

And as Sandra says:

"'The harder I work, the luckier I seem to get!'







eggcup said:
Wednesday, April 17, 2013 @ 2:42 PM

We have another theme here then: what constitutes 'luck?' We once said to someone forever known to us as 'the wonderful David' (because he was a lovely, positive person) that we had been lucky in business. He immediately retorted: 'you make your own luck in this world.' People who are 'overnight successes' have often spent maybe 10 years beavering away trying to get that success. There is an element of luck though as well; and of course for people who have terrible things happen to them, it's not a case that they always deserved their misfortune.


Patricia (Campana) said:
Wednesday, April 17, 2013 @ 6:42 PM

".......then demonstrates through a series of elegant experiments that “lucky” people do have more good things happen to them than the “unlucky” ones and its not because of chance or luck. The “lucky” subjects were people who where significantly more extrovert and open than the others. They were twice as likely to smile and engage in eye contact than the “unlucky” people. This translates into maximising the probability of positive opportunities."

"Confident people tend to attribute success to themselves and failure to bad luck or themselves. This is empowering and builds self-esteem. Others who attribute success to luck and failure to themselves will wait for luck to guide them and will eventually become insecure as they rarely take credit for their successes."

From this article:

http://www.neurope.eu/blog/does-luck-exist-or-it-state-mind






Mark said:
Thursday, April 18, 2013 @ 12:34 PM

Envy is human nature, it is born from wanting what you can't have. It also depends on what a person needs to be happy. I've never been impressed by wealth or overwhelmed by someones possessions, sure you can admire it but never felt envy. But I suppose that comes from what you are used to and how you were brought up. Nor have I ever felt the need to show off my possessions as that inherently stirs envy amongst those that you know don't have it and its just not done. Those who really have money have no need to talk about it. However because they are envious It doesn't necessarily mean they are bad people. Some find it hard to hide their envy. I bet if your friends had the same as you you would be looking at photos all day and sharing opinions on the colour of the curtains. If you build a house or buy a new house, I would just mention it at most and would only show pictures if they ask to see them. We have a villas in Spain and a chateaux in France, heating bills and tax! and if I showed the photos to all my friends I am sure some would feel envious. Take it in your stride and don't lose any sleep over it. If you feel your friends aren't being friends find some new ones and make sure they have at least what you have and then you'll get on like a house on fire talking about the envious ones!


eggcup said:
Friday, April 19, 2013 @ 12:00 PM

Hi Patricia. Thanks for the information on 'luck.' I'll have a read of the article.
And hi Mark. I liked your bit about comparing the colour of the curtains... It reminds me of an excruciating night out with friends years ago, with a woman there I didn't really know and she was going on about the quality of her fridge-freezer and the fact she was going to make fish fingers for 'Simon' for his tea the next day. I went and sat in a loo cubicle for a while (and this was before mobile 'phones and I didn't have a book to read) - I thought anything was preferable to listening to her boring chatter.
In terms of making friends on the basis that they have similar wealth to you; I couldn't even try that. You'd have to target them in some way - maybe up the golf club (I have zero interest in golf), and throw by the wayside life-long friends, because they don't have as much as you. I like the theory and agree that there would then be less envy, but I couldn't effect that result in my own life. Very insightful comment though. Thanks.


Patricia (Campana) said:
Monday, April 22, 2013 @ 12:29 AM

Definitely not, Eggcup. I wouldn't make friends with people just because they had similar wealth to me. That would be shallow.
Like you I have zero interest in golf, and yet down through the years the number of times people have said to me: "Oh, you should take up golf, join a golf club", the underlying message being "you'll meet wealthy people there". Now why would I want to do something like that!

Neither would I throw by the wayside long-term friends on the basis of their having less than me. Indeed I have acquaintances in all walks of life, some with less some with more. However, if I were to see envy or begrudgery surfacing, then long-term or not, I would let the friendship drift away. There is a negativity about envy that I find disquieting.




fazeress said:
Tuesday, October 15, 2013 @ 5:08 PM

I'm worn out after all that reading! Eggie, I'm surprised you're becoming intolerant as I didn't think that was in our make-up! I have friends who love me for what I am and not what I have, although thats not a lot! I also have friends who are envious that we are able to retire early (once the sale is through!) although they certainly wouldn't be envious of the pain and distress we're having to endure to get there! I have to admit that sometimes I have a pang of envy with some people but I only need to look at my family and what we have as a unit and the life we have to look forward to and then I realise that I will be the lucky one! We certainly haven't been lucky through our sale process, everything (almost) that could have, has gone wrong! Patricia's first comment is spot on I have to say! :)


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