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POLL: Should Spain ban the Burkha?
Tuesday, September 9, 2014 @ 5:59 PM

Interior Minister Jorge Fernández Díaz has suggested that the use of burkhas should be regulated by the draft Citizen Safety Law now making its way through parliament.

Although he will leave the final decision to political groups in Congress, the minister said on Wednesday that he was personally convinced that the full-body covering is denigrating to the women who wear it.

“I think it has to do with the dignity of women, and it seems to be that this garment is an attack against that dignity, but this matter is not the exclusive domain of the Interior Ministry,” said Fernández Díaz.

The minister went on to add another dimension to the issue, “to the extent that it [the burqa] makes it difficult to identify a person committing an unlawful act.” The citizen safety bill already “contemplates sanctions for individuals who participate in demonstrations with a face covering to avoid being identified,” he added.

In July, the government approved a less strict version of the original bill, which drew widespread criticism from the opposition, from social groups and even legal bodies. The text had been described as a “gag law” because it was viewed as an attempt by the Popular Party (PP) administration to curtail street protests against the economic crisis and political management.

The Catalan government earlier this week announced that its own public safety legislation is now beginning to make its way through the regional parliament. This law will regulate the use of the full-body covering on the streets but will not “harm religious freedom.” No sanctions are established.

Since 2010, 17 Catalan municipalities have passed bans on the burqa and the niqab, but only seven have developed specific legislation and nobody has ever been given a sanction.

However, the chair of the Muslim Women's Association in the country, Hasar Famadi. say s burkha bans in Spain are 'totally unnecessary'.

“This ban, I believe, would affect roughly three or four women in Spain,” states Sra Famadi. “I practically never see women with their faces covered – behind this prohibition is pure Islamophobia. “It's about creating social alarm, and making out Spain is invaded with women wearing the burkha, and that's not the case at all. “There's no real conflict which justifies so much media attention.”

Hasar Famadi admits she does not like burkhas anyway, and never wears one. “I don't think it's necessary to wear a burkha, and Islam does not specify that women should,” she stresses. “Women wearing the burkha is purely a matter of how certain cultures choose to interpret Islam, but there's nothing in the Q'ran about it at all.

“Burkhas are outfits which mainly come from the Persian Gulf – and the majority of us Muslim women in Spain are from north African countries like Morocco or Algeria. “These outfits do not exist in our culture, in north Africa – we wear the more common types of headgear, such as the hiyab.”

A hiyab is a headscarf which covers the hair and part of the neck, but leaves the wearer's face exposed, whilst the niqab – which is rarely seen on north African Muslims, or indeed those from Bangladesh or Pakistan, from where first-generation Muslims in the UK predominantly originate – covers the head and lower part of the face. “They are talking about what should not be talked about and legislating what should not be legislated,” storms Famadi.

Two years ago, a teenage girl was expelled from a school in Madrid because she chose to wear a hiyab, or headscarf, which left her face uncovered – a decision which was made by the youngster herself, insisted her Moroccan parents, who said they had never put pressure on her to wear or not to wear it.

Her Spanish classmates all turned up the next day to school wearing headscarves in solidarity with their friend. Lleida city council has banned the burkha, but not the hiyab, in public places, and says this is for security reasons, so that a person's face can be seen, and not at all connected with religion or culture.

The council said it took the same stance with motorcycle helmets, which must be removed before entering shops or public buildings to allow the person to be identified – not only in Lleida, but in practically the whole of Spain and many other European and Anglo-Saxon countries.

Judges at the ECHR have upheld France’s ban on the burka. The court accepted the French argument that the ban on face coverings in public, which was introduced in 2010, encouraged citizens to “live together”. France had submitted that the face “played a significant role in social interaction” and that individuals might not wish to see, in places open to all, practices or attitudes which could fundamentally call into question the possibility of an open, interpersonal relationship that formed “an indispensable element of community life”.

So what do you think?

Should Spain follow France and ban the burkha?

 

 



Like 1




27 Comments


eggcup said:
Wednesday, September 10, 2014 @ 3:17 PM

I have seen the burka a lot in recent years - both in several areas of Cardiff and on a recent trip to South Kensington. If it is argued it would only affect a handful of women in Spain, it would affect a lot more in the UK. There must be tens of thousands by now, I'd think, given that I've seen so many and I don't get out much. I'd like to see the UK ban it - the argument about criminal activity being hidden is a strong enough argument for me - I recall a male terrorist escaping the UK once by wearing one.
Of course it can be argued and has been by some feminists that other types of female clothing can be degrading (the mini-skirt, high heels etc. - also sometimes worn to please men as one assumes the burka is), but at least in high heels and a mini-skirt you can eat and drink in public without some big piece of cloth in your face. And it is also dangerous to drive in one as you get tunnel vision...


catalanbrian said:
Saturday, September 13, 2014 @ 7:40 AM

This desire to ban the Burqa, fueled by the current fashion for hating everything about Islam, worries me. It is a retrograde step to the days of intolerance when odd old ladies were hunted down and murdered because it was believed that they were witches.

Yes I know that you can all make excuses about the burqa being used as a disguise by criminals, but I don't think that this is a good enough reason to ban it. The argument about the burqa being degrading to women assumes that women are forced to wear it by their men, but this does not hold much water as most Islamic women who wear burqa do so because it is their choice. I would also comment that I have yet to see a burqa being worn anywhere in Spain, as most Islamic women in Spain wear chador which shows the whole face. I would also comment that the picture above is not of a burqa but of a niqab. Burqa has a net that hides the eyes.

And finally, I rather think that the Spanish government has more important things to do than to waste time introducing such legislation


eggcup said:
Saturday, September 13, 2014 @ 8:26 AM

I think it's naive to say that women don't wear these clothes to please men. Women have a second-class status within Muslim families and within Sharia law. What can look like free will and their own choice is likely to be heavily controlled behaviour. They're free not to wear it, but if they don't they're sluts... that sort of thing. Apparently it is a cultural practice moreover and not one that their religion dictates, so it wouldn't be offending their religious freedom to ban it.


harddunby said:
Saturday, September 13, 2014 @ 8:49 AM

Role on it happening to the limp wristed UK Government.


catalanbrian said:
Saturday, September 13, 2014 @ 8:52 AM

I should have said their choice within their religion, or rather those bits of their religion that they choose to follow. You are right that the Koran does not give full instructions for women's attire, other than that they should dress modestly and that the general dress habits of Islamic women are dictated more by culture In my experience their men have little to do with it. Yes women do have a second class status within Sharia, but so did they in Christian UK, for example, until not so long ago (do you remember the days when women always wore hats or headscarves - a continuation of the modest dressing requirement but in Christian society) and more importantly the inability to vote. We have moved on since then (although I sometimes wonder in view of the rampant sexism there still is in the UK). Eventually the Islamic world will move on as well, but it is not for us outsiders to instruct them so to do. We would also do well to remember that in secular Middle Eastern countries such as Egypt and Lebanon women took to wearing chador/niqab or whatever as a means of protest and indicating their independence!


eggcup said:
Saturday, September 13, 2014 @ 9:36 AM

I don't believe British people in the UK or Spanish people in Spain are outsiders with no right to instruct Muslim people what to do. This argument was used for years in the UK with regard to clitoridechtomies and infibulation. Female genital mutilation in other words. Barbaric practices defended along the lines of us not interfering in other people's 'cultures.' This sort of political correctness also prevented police from protecting young girls from predatory Asian men and is undoubtedly still doing so in many parts of the UK. I don't care at all about culture if it clashes with women and girl's genuine rights to self-determination and to be safe and respected as equal human beings.The protection of socalled culture is usually a protection of men's dominant rights over women.


bilbo.s said:
Saturday, September 13, 2014 @ 10:16 AM

For once I find myself agreeing wholeheartedly with Eggcup.


catalanbrian said:
Saturday, September 13, 2014 @ 10:24 AM

As a matter of interest, FGM (and I worked with a small charity group in East Africa to get it outlawed, which has now happened) was nothing to do with male domination. It was the tribal women who insisted on it and performed it on their daughters and granddaughters and the men were not involved at all. Indeed after our approaches it was often the men who took the initiative in getting it stopped. I agree with your condemnation of 'political correctness' but I think that you will find that the "I did nothing because of pc" is often just an excuse for doing nothing. I still stand by a Moslem woman's right to wear whatever she wants, whether that be burqa or bikini. And how can I not agree with your comment that you don't care about culture if it clashes with women's and girl's rights. Of course I am with you there.


Graham said:
Saturday, September 13, 2014 @ 11:02 AM

Spot on. Ban the burka....sort the problem out before they rule our world and when they have ruined our world they will go and ruin somebody elses world


michael.dowd said:
Saturday, September 13, 2014 @ 11:14 AM

I can not understand why we are even contemplating allowing the wearing of such ridicules apparel. Really, what is the real use of the burqa ? I could never see what the sense of it was. It is intimidating and menacing to look at. If the people of a particular country have a problem with this garment then the views of that country must and should be respected. I see in Ireland, statutes and other holy symbols have been removed from schools and hospitals lest if offends people of Muslim tradition. All we have to do is look at the savagery in Iraq and Syria and other countries in that regions. Make no mistake about it, these same groupings are making progress in our countries and the sooner our elected politicians have the bottle to stand up and take the stand that 99% of the people who elected them want them to take the better. Wearing this garment is wrong. It is demeaning to women, it is dangerous from a security point of view and the sooner a firm stance is made the better.


mindfulspain said:
Saturday, September 13, 2014 @ 12:50 PM

"Show yourself up and be present" an old saying.
There is no other way to live ultimately for anyone.
How can these women ever even attempt to really have THAT challenge of being 'present'in all strange circumstances that life throws at us, if it's constantly denied.Who will attempt a serious communication with full emotions and faculties with these masked shadows? And who cares?
For them it's kitchen talk with other ladies,which can be very pleasant way to pass the time but leads to wrong conclusions about what life really is.There are both men and women in this world.And there are other men than brothers and husbands.

Unless you Catalambrian want yourself or someone else to waste their time on sweet nothings and not grow as a human being.
Today no woman or hardly none want a man to look after them like most of burka wearer's do.I am seriously concerned about muslim women's status.I do not want to leave a stone unturned if it can be done by other countries instead of muslim countries.

Catalambrian.How do you think you can agree with egg cup as to the women's and girl's rights?Did I read you right?

Burka has very sinister connotations suggesting all the above.
Spain,take an example from France please.





Rob said:
Saturday, September 13, 2014 @ 2:04 PM

i think the main problem in Western society is security
so much about ID verification is based on does the face match the photo /even after a couple of years a person can seem quite different to a photo but that is the best we have

with a woman or a man wearing a mask it makes Terrorist activities easier to carry out
also in most offices and places like Banks you have to take off a motor cycle helmet so you are not seen as a threat and to be identified

with the war with IS forces going to kick off /the security aspect could become very important in Europe


Baz said:
Saturday, September 13, 2014 @ 5:39 PM

YES the ban on male control over second grade Women with the excuse of religion is ridiculous. Spain should apply the when in Rome rule. If you don't like the culture of the country leave.


Baz said:
Saturday, September 13, 2014 @ 5:42 PM

YES The idea of male control over second grade Women with the excuse of religion is ridiculous. Spain should apply the when in Rome rule. If you don't like the culture of the country leave.


Patrice said:
Saturday, September 13, 2014 @ 9:12 PM

Of course the burkha should be banned and wearing a balaclava in public should also be banned. Encountering wearers of both garments can be frightening as they give the wearer a sinister look. The UK has thousands of burkha wearers and as eggcup said an escaping male terrorist used it as a disguise to evade capture. He obviously felt secure in his disguise as the police are afraid to ask wearers to show their faces. Political correctness gone mad!


rivers said:
Sunday, September 14, 2014 @ 11:31 AM

Some really limp wristed comments on here namely eggcup. In UK WE decide what goes and what happens not any religion or culture. I doubt that we could call the shots in any other country niether.
If you don't like what our country imposes then get the @@@@ out


eggcup said:
Sunday, September 14, 2014 @ 2:03 PM

Rivers, if you read my last comment you'd realise you'd misread it completely. It's really annoying when someone criticises what I've said and then says the exact same thing. I'll get the xxxx out of my country (the UK) and you go back to school and learn to read.


catalanbrian said:
Sunday, September 14, 2014 @ 2:11 PM

The problem is, eggcup, that too many people out there are poisonously prejudiced and really don't give a damn about people's rights except their own. Add this to a low level of literacy and you get facile and pointless comments.


david999 said:
Sunday, September 14, 2014 @ 8:10 PM

SOME FACTS

The Koran does NOT require a face-covering such as the Burq
a (or even the Niqab).

Covering the face by means of Burqa or Niqab has developed only through certain strict (Wahabbi/Salafi) INTERPRETATIONS of the Koran/Hadith (sayings).

The Burqa (specifically) is both anti-social (in any culture) and, more importantly. a clear and present security risk.

MOST women wearing Burqas will be doing so with at least agreement, and more often pressure, from their male relatives.

IMHO NO European country should tolerate the Burqa being worn in public - it is total anathema to our culture(s), and WE should be able to determine what visitors to OUR countries wear in public - my wife and I were in the Middle East for 20 years, and she ALWAYS dressed in a manner respectful of local customs (in fact, should she have dared to (e.g.) go to a supermarket dressed in inappropriate clothes, she ran the risk of being whipped by the religious police)

We should never, through some misguided "political correctness" allow an (in fact) alien cult to try to impose their cultural norms on we Europeans - think "thin end of the wedge".

David


rivers said:
Monday, September 15, 2014 @ 5:01 AM

Well said catamaran. Too many in direct spineless self righteous fence sitters mixing facts with non sencsicle drivel. Eggcup say what you mean and stop spouting out comments that we all know already. I will bounce around the comments you say around god bazaars I teach at and let you know the outcome. If you can read


rivers said:
Monday, September 15, 2014 @ 5:25 AM

Although eggcup what you eventually get round to saying means roughly god same thing it might help if you would be a bit more direct in what you are trying to say. No offence eggcup son it's a learning curve for all of us.


rivers said:
Monday, September 15, 2014 @ 5:45 AM

God * the apologies for the phonetic discrepancy


eggcup said:
Monday, September 15, 2014 @ 8:42 AM

Hey, catalanbrian, do you like being called 'catamaran'? I like being called 'son.' It's the first time I've been called that in my life.
I also like the Shakespearian spelling of the word 'sencsicle.'
And I've never heard of 'god bazaars', but would imagine that any person teaching them would be a godly sort (not the type to engage in name-calling!) I think the word is 'bizarre' more than 'bazaar.'


catalanbrian said:
Monday, September 15, 2014 @ 10:51 AM

Eggcup, I really don't care what people call me, although I have to say that poor spelling and grammar does give me a certain impression of the person making a post!


mindfulspain said:
Monday, September 15, 2014 @ 1:27 PM

Since most of western nations do not want burqa,why does the muslim women's spokesperson Hasar Famadi not ask everyone in the west to drop the burqa (she even says it is not at all necessary to wear it) as a polite and gracious gesture of goodwill towards their adopted lands esp so as not having to waste time in planning laws to ban it eventually forever.It would be a diplomatic and timely move on her part.


mindfulspain said:
Monday, September 15, 2014 @ 1:29 PM

Since most of western nations do not want burqa,why does the muslim women's spokesperson Hasar Famadi not ask everyone in the west to drop the burqa (she even says it is not at all necessary to wear it) as a polite and gracious gesture of goodwill towards their adopted lands esp so as not having to waste time in planning laws to ban it eventually forever.It would be a diplomatic and timely move on her part.


Charlietwice said:
Saturday, April 23, 2016 @ 1:11 PM

Banning clothing etc are the policies of dictatorships. Young people banned from wearing hoodies, only allowed in if you have a tie, men only golf clubs. Banning the Burkha is the same. The powers that be are allowed to remove if they suspect anything.


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